No more remington bullets for me

The Bolt Man · July 10, 2009, 11:01 PM

I will not be buying any more Remington Bullets, because Remington doesn’t produce bullets to the size stated in their components lists or the label on the boxes.

My first example: Middle of last year I purchased (1000) Remington 130 grain FMJ 38 Super bullets listed as .356” diameter in the Remington components list and in the Midway USA catalog. I wanted to start working with a new 38 Super. When I received the bullets from Midway USA, the Remington bar code label stated .356” 130 grain FMJ. When I opened the box and checked five of the bullets with a micrometer, they measured .355”. I called Midway and they didn’t know this problem existed. I called Remington and was told they manufactured those bullets to .355” and .356” but didn’t change the labels on their boxes because they buy millions of boxes at a time and it would be too costly the change the boxes or labels every time they went from .355” diameter bullets to .356”.

This is pretty stupid to me when I expect to receive the bullet diameter I order and Remington Lists.

This same problem occurred again within less than a year. This time after using about (800) of the .355” diameter, 130 grain FMJ bullets load testing in two 9mm’s and one 38 Super and deciding the .355” bullets were working out well in several loads, I tried to order the same bullet again. No one had them listed but I found a Remington 130 grain ,355” diameter MC (metal clad) bullet listed in Powder Valley. I ordered (1000) but much to my surprise when they arrived, they measured .356”. Another call to Remington and I got the same stupid answer, “They could be .355” or .356”, whatever they are producing at the time. I sent the bullets back because I wasn’t going to waste another (800) bullets to load testing.

No More Remington Bullets For Me.

By the way, I did call Winchester and Magtech and they both said their bullets are manufactured to the diameters listed in their component data and the diameters will always match the stated diameter on the boxes or bags. Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Winchester and Magtech can get it right, why can’t Remington.

FrankenMauser · July 11, 2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

...Winchester ... can get it right, why can’t Remington.

You almost made me spit beer on my computer.

Have you seen the quality control coming from Winchester lately? I'd rather give my child Chinese baby formula, than buy any more Winchester "bullets".

I'd rather take a 0.001" deviation in diameter, than the craptastic ogive, base, weight, and OAL variances seen with Winchester projectiles.

Crankylove · July 11, 2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

I'd rather take a 0.001" deviation in diameter, than the craptastic ogive, base, weight, and OAL variances seen with Winchester projectiles

What he said. I have given up on winchester bullets.......when I can put two sided by side, and see with my naked eye the major variences in the ogive, the overall length of the bullet, the inconsistent and crooked jackets, and the lopsided lead soft points, I kinda feel like I have been bent over a barrel.

Personally, I have never had an issue with remmington components, which is good, cause thats what my primary hunting rifle shoots the best.

jmorris · July 11, 2009, 12:58 AM

.001 is your problem? How many have you put on a scale?

MuscleGarunt · July 11, 2009, 02:09 AM

Yeah, I bought some 30 cal bullets for my 30-30 and they measured .305. Needless to say I won't buy again.

gendoc · July 11, 2009, 06:16 AM

only remington bullets i buy are the 300gr .458 sjhp, for my 45/70.
never had an issue with accuracy. i don't crimp, cause i shoot a 1-holer.
always seems to be a very good fit, never loose.

Alleykat · July 11, 2009, 06:48 AM

Load up a few and see how they shoot. Could be the OP needs more "attention" (pun intended) to his OCD than to the bullets' OD.

floydster · July 11, 2009, 08:16 AM

38 Super .356 dia. period.

Edward429451 · July 11, 2009, 08:20 AM

Do you guys think Winchester and Remington is the only ones putting out undersized bullets?

No wonder Winchesters are so cheap. (not anymore!)

Shoot em and see. Your gun might still like them (glock)

wncchester · July 11, 2009, 08:37 AM

In general terms, I don't see the thou one way or the other as a real problem. If a bullet is oversize, it won't be by the time it travels its own length. If it's undersized, normal obturation should easily deal with that small a difference. Suspect Rem. sees it that way too.

Handguns aren't one-hole accurate anyway. ??

Russ5924 · July 11, 2009, 09:42 AM

Why does it take 800 rounds for testing

Not trying to be smart would like to know

jimkim · July 11, 2009, 10:12 AM

I quit buying Remington twenty years ago.
1.) Got a phone call from a buddy of mine. He had bought some Remington 44 magnum medium loads. He said the recoil was a little stiff. He wanted me to shoot a few and see if I noticed it too. The first two rounds felt fine. I decided it was just in his head. WRONG!!! The third round bulged the cylinder and the fireball singed the hair on my hand clean back to my wrist. That did it for me. I never bought another Remington anything and don't intend to in the future. By the way Remington refused to repair the revolver.

2.) I went to the range with another guy. His revolver was "shooting funny". I told him it was his Remington ammo. He kinda got mad at me. then we noticed the cores had separated on a few of his rounds. I gave one a tug(with my fingers) and most of the lead pulled right out of the jacket. Sine I had sworn off Remington ammo this didn't really bother me, but he wasn't amused.

3.) Went to the range with the guy from number one. He had bought some Remington 44 special ammo on sale. I don't know why he did. It was his revolver that was almost blown up. He was shooting targets at 25yds. Some of the bullets actually made it to the paper. A lot of them hit the ground between fifteen and twenty yards out.

I have more but I'm long winded enough and I don't want to completely bore everyone.

cornbush · July 11, 2009, 10:42 AM

I have gotten bad batches from winchester, nosler and speer but never remington. They all put out crap from time to time. The nosler and speer were one time occurences, with winchester it was several before I just quit buying their components (other than primers). I'll bet there is more than .001" variance in barrels on a run of pistols or rifles. I have shot .308 bullets in my 7.7 jap which slugs at .312 and they shoot great, 1 1/8" groups at 100 yards off a bench. As long as they are consistent whats the problem, if they varied .002" or.003" in a batch thats a problem.

salvadore · July 11, 2009, 11:48 AM

You guys buy other peoples bullets?

The Bolt Man · July 11, 2009, 12:12 PM

FrankenMauser and Crankylove,

I agree the Winchester quality is not good, even poor. I only meant to say they seen to be able to produce bullets to the diameter stated. Winchester contracts, most if not all of their reloading component production goes to the low bidder overseas. Brass and bullets are a real problem for them. We used to say we get what we pay for. Now we get junk at the price we used to pay for quality product.

As for being willing to accept .001" variation in bullet diameter, I can't do that with the 9mm and 38 Supers I have. These pistols are well fitted match grade and .001" plus or minus the desired diameter causes group sizes to change quickly for the worse. I am aware there are many pistols that could care less if the bullet diameter varies or some that tolerate all sort of changes, but they are not up shooting the tight groups I demand from my pistols.

Stick_man · July 11, 2009, 12:35 PM

"You guys buy other peoples bullets?"

What he said. I believe the only way you are going to be able to guarantee getting the same diameter each time from a pistol bullet is to cast your own. Cast it and the run it through your sizer. Keep good consistent alloy mix and keep your sizer cleaned and you should be able to get the consistency you are looking for. I stopped buying jacketed components for my handguns in about 15 years and am now starting to cast my own. I had a friend casting mine for me (I was usually the one doing the actual casting on his equipment) but now he and his equipment are gone.

Slamfire · July 11, 2009, 02:01 PM

We all have gages that read to 0.001 of an inch. That does not mean the gage was ever accurate to 0.001 of an inch, and unless you have a way to recalibrate, how do you know if your gage is still measuring to the .001"?

rc · July 11, 2009, 03:22 PM

I can understand you being upset, but .001 difference is negligible for blasting ammo. If you want the best most consistent bullets you need to buy hornady, sierra or nossler. However, if you bought bulk bullets it was to save $$$ and the Remington bullets have been fairly good for me in the past. I've also used winchester bullets as well. The .001 difference is much less than the height of the rifling to the bottom of the lands. I believe that's .004 or .005. Maybe someone else knows for sure. I'm dissapointed that others have sworn off winchester for lack of quality control. I used to love their 9mm and .40 JHPs. They were a good general purpose bullets. But then that was the days where 500 bullets were about $25 for 9mm and $45 for 500 40s. I guess with the mass panic quality control is the least of the ammo companies concerns. They must be making record profits right now. rc

**Unclenick** · July 11, 2009, 04:55 PM

Jimkim,

I would not be happy about loaded rounds blowing guns up. That is hard to prove in court, of course, but since you had the reality in your face, I'd be avoiding those like the plague, too.

Bolt Man

Military specs for .30 caliber barrels in the Garand and M14 call for groove diameters of .3065" to .3095". Some European top competitors sweat by .309" groove barrels for .308" and .3085" bullets. This is top match accuracy shooting, so it is pretty clear an undersize bullet bumps up to fill and extra mil pretty easily, and as far as ball ammo for shorter range combat shooting, it will be hard to tell the difference from your scores. The critical things are consistency within the lot you load and symmetry of the bullet mass distribution.

Slipping cores aren't all that uncommon, either. It's another reason bonded core bullets were invented. However, if the rifling didn't squeeze the jacket against the core hard enough to stop the core from slipping during rotational acceleration (and I know you can't count on that in high power rifle, but don't expect it typically will be good in handguns, either) then when the jacket slips over top of the lead, it exits the muzzle rotating faster than the core. After exit friction slows the jacket a lot and speeds the core slightly and they go to the same reduced speed, but meanwhile the lead core has been smeared and symmetry is harder to count on. The bottom line is possible instability (you'll see the keyholes if this happens) or just poor grouping.

Maybe if you have some of these slippers you can go to the hobby shop and pick up some of that super thin superglue that works by wicking into cracks by capillary action and then setting up? Same possibility for the super thin purple Loctite? I don't think I'd want to make it my go-to practice, though.

cdoc42 · July 11, 2009, 07:47 PM

About 15 years ago I was using .284 Hornady 175gr round nose bullets with H870 and was getting a 10-shot group at 100 yards at 1.5 inches 6 of the tn were under an inch. At one point I observed a new box revealed the cannelure position had been changed but there was nothing noted anywhere on the box to draw that to one's attention. I wrote to Hornady but never got an answer. My only problem with it was whether or not the ogive position had also changed because two things could develop: 1) If reloaders use overall length to reseat bullets and the ogive has changed,they will notice a difference in accuracy and 2) if newbies use the cannelure as the seat position they will either seat the "new" bullet to deeply or too far forward ( at this writing I don't recall where the new cannelure was relative to the older bullet. As it turned out H870 was discontinued and I was never able to get the same accuracy with the "new" bullets and any other powder.

bob kk · July 11, 2009, 08:23 PM

Bought a box of bulk Rem 224 diameter 50 grain bullets. Bullets weighed
45 to 58 grains. That was about 10 years ago. No more Rem's for me.
Bought some Win 357 158 grain at the same time. The Win's were close
to 158 grain not over a few tenths off.

Anticonn · July 11, 2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

We all have gages that read to 0.001 of an inch. That does not mean the gage was ever accurate to 0.001 of an inch, and unless you have a way to recalibrate, how do you know if your gage is still measuring to the .001"?

This is actually a good point, in an ISO manufacturing environment calibration of micrometers and calipers is required at least once every 12 months. Believe it or not this isn't just a scam to make you spend money, having a good gauge block on hand to calibrate to every time you're using your instrument for a critical dimension is a good idea.

On the other hand any half-way decent commercial calipers or micrometer should hold calibration within one thou well beyond the standard 12 month frequency, may drift by a couple tenths over time, however.

the_right_reverend · July 12, 2009, 06:18 AM

remington still makes bullets????

I haven't used them since they were $70/3000 still got a box left to occassionally break in a barrel but i don't really expect to get the close to accurate much leass on paper

WESHOOT2 · July 13, 2009, 07:29 AM

This is just the cutest little post.

When I receive bullets I break out my ten-thou mike and measure, then I weigh ten for averaging.
Few are as advertised.

I have "9mm" bullets that range from .354" to over .357".

Currently on my bench reside over seventy different distinct handgun bullet brands and types (stored nicely in stacked Dillon blue-bins, unlike the confusion on my bulk-bullet shelves; I gotta lotta bullets. A lot....).

DiscoRacing · July 13, 2009, 07:37 AM

im the rookie loader here then i guess,,,, i just throw mine in loader and down the barrel it goes..... never thought i had to measure every single bullet...wondering if that is why i missed that 14 pointer two yrs ago.... tho im pretty sure he seen me before I noticed him. And the flag wasnt to surrender by far.

July 10, 2009, 11:01 PM	#1
The Bolt Man Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 33	No more remington bullets for me I will not be buying any more Remington Bullets, because Remington doesn’t produce bullets to the size stated in their components lists or the label on the boxes. My first example: Middle of last year I purchased (1000) Remington 130 grain FMJ 38 Super bullets listed as .356” diameter in the Remington components list and in the Midway USA catalog. I wanted to start working with a new 38 Super. When I received the bullets from Midway USA, the Remington bar code label stated .356” 130 grain FMJ. When I opened the box and checked five of the bullets with a micrometer, they measured .355”. I called Midway and they didn’t know this problem existed. I called Remington and was told they manufactured those bullets to .355” and .356” but didn’t change the labels on their boxes because they buy millions of boxes at a time and it would be too costly the change the boxes or labels every time they went from .355” diameter bullets to .356”. This is pretty stupid to me when I expect to receive the bullet diameter I order and Remington Lists. This same problem occurred again within less than a year. This time after using about (800) of the .355” diameter, 130 grain FMJ bullets load testing in two 9mm’s and one 38 Super and deciding the .355” bullets were working out well in several loads, I tried to order the same bullet again. No one had them listed but I found a Remington 130 grain ,355” diameter MC (metal clad) bullet listed in Powder Valley. I ordered (1000) but much to my surprise when they arrived, they measured .356”. Another call to Remington and I got the same stupid answer, “They could be .355” or .356”, whatever they are producing at the time. I sent the bullets back because I wasn’t going to waste another (800) bullets to load testing. No More Remington Bullets For Me. By the way, I did call Winchester and Magtech and they both said their bullets are manufactured to the diameters listed in their component data and the diameters will always match the stated diameter on the boxes or bags. Sierra, Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Winchester and Magtech can get it right, why can’t Remington.

July 11, 2009, 09:42 AM	#11
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	Why does it take 800 rounds for testing Not trying to be smart would like to know __________________ Russ5924

July 11, 2009, 10:12 AM	#12
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	I quit buying Remington twenty years ago. 1.) Got a phone call from a buddy of mine. He had bought some Remington 44 magnum medium loads. He said the recoil was a little stiff. He wanted me to shoot a few and see if I noticed it too. The first two rounds felt fine. I decided it was just in his head. WRONG!!! The third round bulged the cylinder and the fireball singed the hair on my hand clean back to my wrist. That did it for me. I never bought another Remington anything and don't intend to in the future. By the way Remington refused to repair the revolver. 2.) I went to the range with another guy. His revolver was "shooting funny". I told him it was his Remington ammo. He kinda got mad at me. then we noticed the cores had separated on a few of his rounds. I gave one a tug(with my fingers) and most of the lead pulled right out of the jacket. Sine I had sworn off Remington ammo this didn't really bother me, but he wasn't amused. 3.) Went to the range with the guy from number one. He had bought some Remington 44 special ammo on sale. I don't know why he did. It was his revolver that was almost blown up. He was shooting targets at 25yds. Some of the bullets actually made it to the paper. A lot of them hit the ground between fifteen and twenty yards out. I have more but I'm long winded enough and I don't want to completely bore everyone. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

July 11, 2009, 03:22 PM	#18
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	not as advertised I can understand you being upset, but .001 difference is negligible for blasting ammo. If you want the best most consistent bullets you need to buy hornady, sierra or nossler. However, if you bought bulk bullets it was to save $$$ and the Remington bullets have been fairly good for me in the past. I've also used winchester bullets as well. The .001 difference is much less than the height of the rifling to the bottom of the lands. I believe that's .004 or .005. Maybe someone else knows for sure. I'm dissapointed that others have sworn off winchester for lack of quality control. I used to love their 9mm and .40 JHPs. They were a good general purpose bullets. But then that was the days where 500 bullets were about $25 for 9mm and $45 for 500 40s. I guess with the mass panic quality control is the least of the ammo companies concerns. They must be making record profits right now. rc

July 11, 2009, 04:55 PM	#19
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Jimkim, I would not be happy about loaded rounds blowing guns up. That is hard to prove in court, of course, but since you had the reality in your face, I'd be avoiding those like the plague, too. Bolt Man Military specs for .30 caliber barrels in the Garand and M14 call for groove diameters of .3065" to .3095". Some European top competitors sweat by .309" groove barrels for .308" and .3085" bullets. This is top match accuracy shooting, so it is pretty clear an undersize bullet bumps up to fill and extra mil pretty easily, and as far as ball ammo for shorter range combat shooting, it will be hard to tell the difference from your scores. The critical things are consistency within the lot you load and symmetry of the bullet mass distribution. Slipping cores aren't all that uncommon, either. It's another reason bonded core bullets were invented. However, if the rifling didn't squeeze the jacket against the core hard enough to stop the core from slipping during rotational acceleration (and I know you can't count on that in high power rifle, but don't expect it typically will be good in handguns, either) then when the jacket slips over top of the lead, it exits the muzzle rotating faster than the core. After exit friction slows the jacket a lot and speeds the core slightly and they go to the same reduced speed, but meanwhile the lead core has been smeared and symmetry is harder to count on. The bottom line is possible instability (you'll see the keyholes if this happens) or just poor grouping. Maybe if you have some of these slippers you can go to the hobby shop and pick up some of that super thin superglue that works by wicking into cracks by capillary action and then setting up? Same possibility for the super thin purple Loctite? I don't think I'd want to make it my go-to practice, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 11, 2009, 12:58 AM	#4
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	.001 is your problem? How many have you put on a scale?

July 11, 2009, 02:09 AM	#5
MuscleGarunt Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 75	Yeah, I bought some 30 cal bullets for my 30-30 and they measured .305. Needless to say I won't buy again.

July 11, 2009, 06:16 AM	#6
gendoc Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: lowest bama Posts: 53	only remington bullets i buy are the 300gr .458 sjhp, for my 45/70. never had an issue with accuracy. i don't crimp, cause i shoot a 1-holer. always seems to be a very good fit, never loose.

July 11, 2009, 06:48 AM	#7
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Load up a few and see how they shoot. Could be the OP needs more "attention" (pun intended) to his OCD than to the bullets' OD.

July 11, 2009, 08:16 AM	#8
floydster Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 472	38 Super .356 dia. period.

July 11, 2009, 08:20 AM	#9
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Do you guys think Winchester and Remington is the only ones putting out undersized bullets? No wonder Winchesters are so cheap. (not anymore!) Shoot em and see. Your gun might still like them (glock)

July 11, 2009, 08:37 AM	#10
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	In general terms, I don't see the thou one way or the other as a real problem. If a bullet is oversize, it won't be by the time it travels its own length. If it's undersized, normal obturation should easily deal with that small a difference. Suspect Rem. sees it that way too. Handguns aren't one-hole accurate anyway. ??

July 11, 2009, 10:42 AM	#13
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	I have gotten bad batches from winchester, nosler and speer but never remington. They all put out crap from time to time. The nosler and speer were one time occurences, with winchester it was several before I just quit buying their components (other than primers). I'll bet there is more than .001" variance in barrels on a run of pistols or rifles. I have shot .308 bullets in my 7.7 jap which slugs at .312 and they shoot great, 1 1/8" groups at 100 yards off a bench. As long as they are consistent whats the problem, if they varied .002" or.003" in a batch thats a problem.

July 11, 2009, 11:48 AM	#14
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	You guys buy other peoples bullets?

July 11, 2009, 12:12 PM	#15
The Bolt Man Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 33	FrankenMauser and Crankylove, I agree the Winchester quality is not good, even poor. I only meant to say they seen to be able to produce bullets to the diameter stated. Winchester contracts, most if not all of their reloading component production goes to the low bidder overseas. Brass and bullets are a real problem for them. We used to say we get what we pay for. Now we get junk at the price we used to pay for quality product. As for being willing to accept .001" variation in bullet diameter, I can't do that with the 9mm and 38 Supers I have. These pistols are well fitted match grade and .001" plus or minus the desired diameter causes group sizes to change quickly for the worse. I am aware there are many pistols that could care less if the bullet diameter varies or some that tolerate all sort of changes, but they are not up shooting the tight groups I demand from my pistols.

July 11, 2009, 12:35 PM	#16
Stick_man Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 241	"You guys buy other peoples bullets?" What he said. I believe the only way you are going to be able to guarantee getting the same diameter each time from a pistol bullet is to cast your own. Cast it and the run it through your sizer. Keep good consistent alloy mix and keep your sizer cleaned and you should be able to get the consistency you are looking for. I stopped buying jacketed components for my handguns in about 15 years and am now starting to cast my own. I had a friend casting mine for me (I was usually the one doing the actual casting on his equipment) but now he and his equipment are gone.

July 11, 2009, 02:01 PM	#17
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	We all have gages that read to 0.001 of an inch. That does not mean the gage was ever accurate to 0.001 of an inch, and unless you have a way to recalibrate, how do you know if your gage is still measuring to the .001"?

July 11, 2009, 07:47 PM	#20
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	About 15 years ago I was using .284 Hornady 175gr round nose bullets with H870 and was getting a 10-shot group at 100 yards at 1.5 inches 6 of the tn were under an inch. At one point I observed a new box revealed the cannelure position had been changed but there was nothing noted anywhere on the box to draw that to one's attention. I wrote to Hornady but never got an answer. My only problem with it was whether or not the ogive position had also changed because two things could develop: 1) If reloaders use overall length to reseat bullets and the ogive has changed,they will notice a difference in accuracy and 2) if newbies use the cannelure as the seat position they will either seat the "new" bullet to deeply or too far forward ( at this writing I don't recall where the new cannelure was relative to the older bullet. As it turned out H870 was discontinued and I was never able to get the same accuracy with the "new" bullets and any other powder.

July 11, 2009, 08:23 PM	#21
bob kk Member Join Date: October 6, 2008 Location: E Tn Posts: 56	Bought a box of bulk Rem 224 diameter 50 grain bullets. Bullets weighed 45 to 58 grains. That was about 10 years ago. No more Rem's for me. Bought some Win 357 158 grain at the same time. The Win's were close to 158 grain not over a few tenths off.

July 12, 2009, 06:18 AM	#23
the_right_reverend Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2008 Location: Sneads Ferry, Nc Posts: 232	remington still makes bullets???? I haven't used them since they were $70/3000 still got a box left to occassionally break in a barrel but i don't really expect to get the close to accurate much leass on paper __________________ It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men....

July 13, 2009, 07:29 AM	#24
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	my my my This is just the cutest little post. When I receive bullets I break out my ten-thou mike and measure, then I weigh ten for averaging. Few are as advertised. I have "9mm" bullets that range from .354" to over .357". Currently on my bench reside over seventy different distinct handgun bullet brands and types (stored nicely in stacked Dillon blue-bins, unlike the confusion on my bulk-bullet shelves; I gotta lotta bullets. A lot....). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 13, 2009, 07:37 AM	#25
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	im the rookie loader here then i guess,,,, i just throw mine in loader and down the barrel it goes..... never thought i had to measure every single bullet...wondering if that is why i missed that 14 pointer two yrs ago.... tho im pretty sure he seen me before I noticed him. And the flag wasnt to surrender by far.