VA gun dealers declare war on Bloomberg

[jimpeel]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259726,00.html

Virginia Gun Dealers Hold Contest to Protest New York Mayor Bloomberg's Gun Policy
Monday , March 19, 2007

MIDLOTHIAN, Va. —

Amid the Confederate flags, anti-Yankee bumper stickers and Civil War relics on display at Bob Moates Sport Shop, a counterattack against the North is under way.

"Ask about the Bloomberg Gun GiveAway" reads a sign taped to the gun shop's register, beckoning customers to enter the drawing named for New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, whose federal lawsuits against gun dealers in five states have drawn the wrath of Virginia's gun enthusiasts.

Bloomberg says the dealers holding the contest are sick. The dealers call Bloomberg names that aren't fit to print.

"The truth is, if Bloomberg hadn't picked on Virginia, we wouldn't have gotten involved. But he made the mistake of stepping into Virginia with this," said Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League and mastermind of the giveaway, which has boosted business for the two participating store owners.

The Republican mayor has sued 27 out-of-state gun dealers, alleging they sold firearms illegally to undercover private investigators conducting a sting for New York. City officials say the dealers have supplied hundreds of weapons used in New York City crimes. The lawsuits, which name dealers in Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia, ask the court to require monitoring of the shops' sales.

Investigators tried to make "straw purchases," in which one person fills out the legal forms and buys a gun for someone else. The practice is prohibited by federal law and is typically used by those who cannot legally own firearms, such as convicted felons.

Nine dealers, including two in Virginia, have settled with the city, agreeing to be monitored by a court-appointed special master. The owners of two Virginia stores being sued said they were forced to close because of crushing legal fees.

But in January, two other store owners began fighting back with the gun giveaway.

Through March 31, customers who spend $100 at either of Bob Moates' stores or at Old Dominion Guns and Tackle in Danville are eligible to win a handgun or a rifle, courtesy of the Defense League. The drawing will be held April 19.

Van Cleave said he came up with the idea as a way to boost sales at the stores, which have shelled out thousands in legal fees.

The contest has only further agitated Bloomberg, who has made gun control a top priority in his second term.

"These are sick people," Bloomberg said in January at the Mayors Against Illegal Guns summit in Washington. "And if they think that this is funny, I don't think that the parents or the spouses or the children of those that get killed with illegal guns would find that very entertaining."

Dave Hancock, who has worked at Bob Moates Sport Shop for 25 years, said of the mayor: "I think he's an idiot."

Bloomberg and others say the lawsuits are aimed at reducing the flow of illegal guns into New York. Mayoral spokesman Jason Post said police statistics show that 90 percent of the guns used in crimes in New York City come from out of state.

But Hancock and other Virginia gun-rights advocates say the lawsuits are nothing more than a publicity stunt and a scheme to drive gun dealers out of business.

Richard Hill, manager of Bob Moates Sport Shop, called the lawsuits a "nice attempt by a politician just trying to get to the White House" and said his store always follows the law.

"The best way to get guns off the street and criminals off the street is to lock 'em up," Hill said. "They seem to want to pick on an old stereotype: It's so easy to get a gun in Virginia and run it up to New York. When quite honestly, you can break into a house anywhere and get anything you like."

Bloomberg's face is on a poster taped to a shotgun rack at Bob Moates, under the words "Here are our worst enemy." Sarah Brady of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle are also pictured, though Bloomberg's face is circled in bright pink highlighter.

The winner will receive a Para-Ordnance handgun worth around $900.

Longtime customer Scott Cashion, 31, of Chesterfield, said he has earned six or seven tickets — and may end up with more to get back at Bloomberg.

"I bought some kind of for spite," he said while looking over a stack of ammunition. "What he's doing is wrong."

The winner of the contest at Old Dominion Guns and Tackle will get a Browning Varmint Stalker rifle, also worth about $900.

"I've been in business 27 years and I've probably had the best February I've ever had," store owner Dennis Alverson said. "Nobody's got a great likeness for Bloomberg in this area."

[MDman]

wait so what is the bloomberg gun giveaway? ya lost me

[1BadF350]

Can someone explain what value, if any, the first sentence adds to the article? What a ridiculous statement to make.

[Eghad]

modern journalism.....manufacture some drama

[johnbt]

"Can someone explain what value, if any, the first sentence adds to the article?"

I dunno. I will say that the shop does equip Civil War re-enactors and you need flags along with everything else.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Patron

[deanf]

Investigators tried to make "straw purchases," in which one person fills out the legal forms and buys a gun for someone else. The practice is prohibited by federal law and is typically used by those who cannot legally own firearms, such as convicted felons.

So this reporter is not smart enough to ask a few questions re: why these private dicks are not being prosecuted for these straw purchases?

[CobrayCommando]

Quality of the article aside, reading what some of these pro-gun people said almost makes me think they were double agents planted by Bloomberg. I'm sure Wildalaska will have his say in this.

[applesanity]

Go Virginia.

Seeing as how a straw purchase is a felony, wouldn't the undercover guys who carried out the sting have commited such felonies? Or at the very least, a perjury or two when filling out the requisite forms? I mean narcs don't smoke the pot that they buy, right?

*** begin sarcasm ***

And yessiree, us Virginians really love ol' Dixie. Yee-haw. Bloomberg and his carpetbagging kind ain't welcome in this here parts of the US of A. There's no telling what us country bumpkins might do. You pass the Mason Dixon line, and folks down here just get all itchin' and trigger-happy. That's why crime in Virginia is 149.7% higher than in New York. We don't take kindly to you city-type folks. I reckon y'all should stay home, you hear?

*** end sarcasm ***

[jimpeel]

"Can someone explain what value, if any, the first sentence adds to the article?"

It sets the tone of the reporter's bias and gets a from the reader before they even get to the body of the article.

[Wildalaska]

Gun owners can be their own worst enemies.

WildassumingwhatsinthearticleistrueAlaska

[FirstFreedom]

They sure can. If we could just eradicate those among our ranks who would lock us up for exercising a constitutional right, we'd be set. But whaddya gonna do about anti-gun individuals from AK who try to pretend they are pro-? Can't shoot 'em; can't steal their keyboards; they'd just buy another.

[Wildalaska]

If we could just eradicate those among our ranks who would lock us up for exercising a constitutional right, we'd be set. But whaddya gonna do about anti-gun individuals from AK who try to pretend they are pro-

Dunno, seems that my version of pro gun is more in tune with the majority of responsible gun owners, as opposed to those who make us look like uneducated yahoos...

But hey, cant take their keyboards away can we

I wonder how many of the FFs, with their classical and philosophical educations (latin, Greek) would be wearing T shirts that say "from my Cold Dead Fingers"

WildtimetobewhatwearesupposedtobeAlaska

[rem33]

Dunno, seems that my version of pro gun is more in tune with the majority of responsible gun owners, as opposed to those who make us look like uneducated yahoos

...


Sometimes I wonder how you stay in business up there or maybe your good buddy customers and hunting and fishing locals all have a 4 year degree. Or is it they don't know how Wild West really feels about a high percentage of them..

We all don't have the expertease with the english language as you but that doesn't mean we're Just yahooo's an igjitts neither.

Sorry as I know some of us don't meet your standards.

[Wildalaska]

Sometimes I wonder how you stay in business up there or maybe your good buddy customers and hunting and fishing locals all have a 4 year degree. Or is it they don't know how Wild West really feels about a high percentage of them..

Funny, most of our customers dont have 4 year degrees...on the other hand they dont deliberately try to make gun owners look bad either

Sorry as I know some of us don't meet your standards.

Something to strive for then I reckon

WildbeagunownerAlaska

[FirstFreedom]

with their classical and philosophical educations

like that matters - it's the classic "educated beyond their intelligence."

Dunno, seems that my version of pro gun is more in tune with the majority of responsible gun owners, as opposed to those who make us look like uneducated yahoos...

Although you'd be dead wrong on that count (your version makes the responsible gun owners look like weak, meek opponents who can be run over roughshod by the anti-freedom forces - look at how those proper educated Brits stood up to gun rights infringements) - in any event, you don't have to be educated to be correct, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this:

1. "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

2. Many states blatently infringe said right

3. WA as a conscientious (*cough*) juror would send ME (and everyone else on this board) to prison for exercising my constitutional right in contravention of the state's blatent infringement. (by the way, thanks)

4. As a natural result of the foregoing, WA is ludicrously anti-freedom, anti-self-defense, anti-original-intent, and thus pro-violence (since the social science proves that more guns=less violent crime) - at least RELATIVE TO other gun owners (not necessarily on an absolute scale). And as such, I don't particularly appreciate him masquerading (sp?) as a pro-gunner. Either that or he's one of the dumbest people on the face of the planet. And I KNOW for positive, for certain, that WA is extremely intelligent and thoughtful. There is one remaining choice in the dichotomy.

TAKEhavetheupperhandIthinkcuzWAshouldbeworkingongunsnotdebatingTHAT

[applesanity]

Either that or he's one of the dumbest people on the face of the planet.

Relax, it's just a message board for gun enthusiasts. We wouldn't want to look like a bunch of pissed off, rhetoric-spewing, crazed rednecks, right?

And no, I'm not WA.

[FirstFreedom]

umm, read what follows....??

But I AM terribly pissed off, in your words, at all the gun rights infringements, and being meek and mild and silent has NOT WORKED. Making noise that makes us look bad to SOME, but actually does more good than harm in terms of firing shots over the proverbial legislative/political bows, is far better than the "do as we're told/work in the system/sheeple" approach espoused by *some*, which has NOT worked. Sorta like those that are in favor of the WOSD - merely asking them "is it working?" usually shuts them up. Dr. Phil has that question right - "How's that working for ya?". How's BOHICA working for us? We have more gun laws than ever, and more and more each day. We have the 89 import ban, the 86 machine gun ban, and many other infringements under Republican presidents & congresses. I'd much rather look like a crazed redneck, and KEEP more rights, than look like a mensa member and get shafted yet again by the federal government on gun rights. Am I a redneck? Hmmm, dunno...maybe an "urban quasi-redneck". What of it?

The old adage is truer than ever here "the best defense is a good offense."

Perhaps you are speaking tongue in cheek.. in that case, ya got me.

Politicians understand ONE THING - and that is that everyone has exactly ONE VOTE - no matter how stupid, how smart, how redneck, how educated. Being P.O'ed and EXPRESSING same publicly is what changes politicians' behavior, which is the goal here - they want as many of those ONE VOTEs of rednecks as they can get - that's how they make a living! And since there is necessarily imperfect flow of information to politicians, ANY venue of communication is a GOOD THING, and one that gets national media coverage in terms of stories, for all fence-sitting politicians to see, is a VERY good thing.

Saying "but we must follow the rule of law to the letter, work within the system, and not look like uneducated yahoos" is akin to being in a hospital bed with dozens of broken leg bones, concussions, scapes & bruises, and saying "but see, I'm in the right, because I was in the crosswalk when I was hit by that car; I saw it coming, but I didn't attempt to move because I had the law on my side, as I was clearly within the crosswalk". You still have broken legs and may never walk again - was it worth it? No; you do whatever it takes to survive and win the battle, and if that means bending the rules a bit and (gasp) seeming like rednecks to certain bourgeouis types, then so be it.

BUTWHATDOItestedat154andhaveadvanceddegreeKNOW? I'm just a Yay-hoo.

[applesanity]

I'm pissed of too. But I wouldn't want to act or say things that merely provide fodder for furthering the "crazed gun nut" stereotype.

As for our rights getting smacked around, I would like to point out that more states than ever (or at least in a very long time) issue CCW permits. The plaintiff in the DC case was a CATO fellow or member. That's right - an intellectual working for an intellectual thinktank pulled a Rosa Parks by deliberately doing something that he knew was gonna give him hell. Than 2+ years later, through slow, deliberate legal battles, he's come on top.

I'm not gonna apologize when I say two wrongs don't make a right. Let Rosie ODonnell march her fat ___ around DC, screaming and fuming. Leave me out of that. You can only preach at the top of your lungs and get away with it, only if the media loves you. The brady bunch can scream, PETA and tree-hugging hippies can scream, and the media will make them look passionate. They'll make us look like yokels still believing that the South shall rise again.

The situation hasn't gotten as dire as it did during the Battle of Athens. That's when we'll fight.

ApplePleaseForTheLoveOfGodUseTheFreakingSpacebarSanity

[rem33]

OK lemme see if I can get this out right..
To begin with IQ is only a small percentage of our over all intelligence. Not knocking IQ's at all but some guys that didn't get the high score are good folks with great ideas and some mensa's are fools with some smarts so to speak. I agree with WA and FF here Every gun owner needs to try and work together for the good of all Whether we work and live in a high rise in a major city or in the back country of Alaska, to farms and ranches to city. We see the world differently with our respective educations and up bringing, where we live, etc etc. Lets work toward one objective and that is against more intrusions of our freedom of firearm ownership and usage.

Unless a guy is being a fool on here I would give him a break and let him speak his mind we can all learn from more input from all. I betcha there are a lot of guys that say nothing when they have a good idea because they worry about not looking so good in print.

[FirstFreedom]

Good points;thank you. I'm all for working within the system ALSO, and kudos that that Plaintiff and his supporters - he's done a great service to all. And in a COURTROOM, which IS civilized, you do work strictly within the system, in an intellectual manner. I understand that. But on the LEGISLATIVE side of things, legislators are not scholars and judges - they make kneejerk legislation and throw together stuff like sausage - they crank out legislation each and every year to appease the people and get votes - the redneck ranting approach is what affects this legislative side of things. You work on BOTH fronts, not just one or the other. You don't say, I'm going to invade on the ground and therefore won't use any air power or arty - you attack on all fronts with all methods.

And I'm all for WA speaking his mind - I accept that we are radically opposed philosophically - however, I cannot help but be a little bit personally perturbed that he would willingly throw ME in prison for doing something which the Constitution specifically says I have a right to do, license or no. And it's sure easy for him to say that, since his state doesn't infringe that right, unlike most states. The 36 or 37 states which issue "permits" or licenses to carry a gun still blatently infringe the right - you cannot license a fundamental right, as that is an unconstitutional infringement - a "prior restraint" on the right.

[applesanity]

Actually, its more like every other state except Vermont.

Which is probably why that flaming liberal Howard Dean never used gun control as part his platform.

Let's take "From my cold dead hands" for an example. After that sack of lies aka Bowling for Columbine, the phrase evoked the image of gun fanatics. Within context, Charlton Heston was merely accepting some relic of a gun from the governor of... Alabama I think. Mr. Heston was actually saying something like, "I will treasure this gift forever. If anyone wants to take this generous present, they'll have to pry it from my...." In actuality, Heston could have been talking about any kind of present, not specifically a gun.

The media's switch was so complete that even a lot of gun nuts use it as their mantra, even though the original intention was so very different. Wow, a self-fulfilling stereotype.

[Wildalaska]

But on the LEGISLATIVE side of things, legislators are not scholars and judges - they make kneejerk legislation and throw together stuff like sausage - they crank out legislation each and every year to appease the people and get votes - the redneck ranting approach is what affects this legislative side of things. You work on BOTH fronts, not just one or the other. You don't say, I'm going to invade on the ground and therefore won't use any air power or arty - you attack on all fronts with all methods.

Sorry First, cranks and screechers dont win in the end....the folks who WORK win...ya'll got a problem with your legislators.....fine...get involved, get invoolved, get involved....

Rather than putting Bloofbergs face on a target and plying the lets hate the big city yankee game....

however, I cannot help but be a little bit personally perturbed that he would willingly throw ME in prison for doing something which the Constitution specifically says I have a right to do, license or no.

Deal with it. Get involved. Dont take your feelings of impotence out on me. You view of "right" by the way is neither the majority view OR the legal view at this point in time. Change it and I'm right behind ya. But no one man is an arbiter of what the constituion says. The endless debate continues.

And it's sure easy for him to say that, since his state doesn't infringe that right, unlike most states.

When living in NY I got a permit. In NYC i got a permit. In NJ, I got a permit. So I guess Ive been "infringed" in the past, albhiet temporaily...takes a little work, but everything is doable.

WildiloveitwhenguyspickupmysigAlaska

[rem33]

Charlton Heston was merely accepting some relic of a gun from the governor of... Alabama I think.

It was a new gun.
I wish I could remember the name of the guy that made that gun Mr. Heston was holding up. He is one of if not the most skilled reproduction gun makers in America. If memory serves that gun was worth about 25K or his guns start at that much I am not sure which.
Personaly I was about half PQed that he would wave such a quality firearm around like that. Oh well, it was his huh?

[applesanity]

Thanks for the correction. What kind of gun it was, is ultimately not so relevant. If the gist of everything else I said is still more or less right, then I think my point is valid.

[Al Norris]

This thread has diverged quite far enough. The personal insults and attacks and generally rude behavior is enough to shut this down, without mention of thread drift.

Since the thread was on declaring war on something or somebody (anybody remember who? - rhetorical question), tell you what I'm going to do:

I'm going to declare war on anyone I see slinging ad hominems (logical fallacy - personal attacks, be they acrimonious or veiled in humor - for those that don't know Latin). No warnings, no second chances.