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Old April 18, 2021, 10:44 AM   #26
Bart B.
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Old April 18, 2021, 11:05 AM   #27
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The accuracy achievement most disbelieved is probably the 600 yard test groups shot by USN 7.62 Garands with 1:12 twist barrels. New M118 match ammo primed cases were stuffed with 44 grains of IMR4320 and a Sierra 190 HPMK. 10-shot groups maximum ES of 4 inches; .67 MOA.

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Old April 18, 2021, 01:35 PM   #28
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As a friend of mine is fond of saying...

"How does this help me put an elk in my freezer with my .300Savage model 99?"

Amen


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Old April 19, 2021, 04:00 AM   #29
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Cortina's books/video's no more help put an elk in the freezer than me reading a book or watching videos on elk stalking techniques would help me put 20 consecutive rounds into a target at 800 yards. So I don't bother watching elk stalking videos

As my dad used to tell me "everything is not about you"
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Old April 21, 2021, 01:04 PM   #30
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What I have discovered is that the best thing I can do to improve accuracy of one of my rifles is to pillar-bed it with a floated barrel. I guess Eric assumes you have already done that, but I hadn't. Finally decided a couple of months ago to learn how to do it myself

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Old April 21, 2021, 06:38 PM   #31
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I'd be willing to best all of his rifles have full chassis or at least mini-chassis in them already.
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Old April 22, 2021, 08:36 AM   #32
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What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills?
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Old April 22, 2021, 08:54 AM   #33
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What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills?
Easy one. 3Gun. No other is even close.
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Old April 22, 2021, 10:42 AM   #34
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Is 3 gun a bullseye pistol discipline?
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Old April 22, 2021, 11:04 AM   #35
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Easy one. 3Gun. No other is even close.
3 gun, I would have to agree. It has pistol, rifle, and shotgun. At varied ranges, requiring accuracy in all 3 disciplines
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Old April 22, 2021, 11:49 AM   #36
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3 gun, I would have to agree. It has pistol, rifle, and shotgun. At varied ranges, requiring accuracy in all 3 disciplines
Yes. On average, rifle from 6 to 600 yards, pistol from 1 to 100 yards and shotgun from 10 to 100 yards. Every multi-discipline "World" shooting championship has been won by a 3Gunner.

Not for the faint of heart, one trick ponies or those who don't have the fundamentals down.
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Old April 22, 2021, 12:27 PM   #37
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Does every multi-discipline "World" shooting championship winner get to use his own arms and ammo?

If not, the best marksman can lose because the arms he's issued may not shoot the issued ammo most accurate.

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Old April 22, 2021, 12:52 PM   #38
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What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills?
This us what you asked....
Having to deal with issued guns or ammo is an equipment issue not related to marksmanship skills and does not effect the skills of the shooter, only what the gun/ammo is capable of doing .

3 gun has 3 disciplines, each having their own nuances. In my opinion it takes the most marksmanship skills to be at a high level on all 3, than to focus exclusively on one.
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Old April 22, 2021, 01:32 PM   #39
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How close to call do you want rifle and pistol bullets to strike; 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1 or 2 MOA?

My issue is if each discipline's firearm shooting bullets are not equally accurate, scores fired will be influenced by luck of the draw.

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Old April 22, 2021, 03:41 PM   #40
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How close to call do you want rifle and pistol bullets to strike; 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1 or 2 MOA?

My issue is if each discipline's firearm shooting bullets are not equally accurate, scores fired will be influenced by luck of the draw.
Unless I miss my guess you are looking at too strongly from the perspective of precision not marksmanship.

I am sure there are, but I am unaware of competitions that are based off of group size alone.

Marksmanship is the ability to put rounds on a specified target not how small of a group you can shoot.

In competition the format in which the targets are set up and scored is used to judge the marksmanship ability of the shooter.

That can be X ring hits at 1000yds with a heavy gun from a stable platform. or hitting a steel IPCS unsupported while moving with a pistol.

you asked "What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills? "

I still say 3 gun. It is not focused on utter precision, but it makes up for that by adding other factors like unstable shooting platforms, time, movement and elevated hear rates, challenging shooting positions and multiple targets in challenging orders and different weapon platforms. It is simply different format for measuring marksmanship.

And we are way off topic....
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Old April 22, 2021, 04:23 PM   #41
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If not, the best marksman can lose because the arms he's issued may not shoot the issued ammo most accurate.
A few years back there was a show called "Top Shots" where they claimed to be looking for the "best shot" and all the contestants were good shots, one could say they were marksmen.

However the way the show was down there was less marksmanship and more "luck" involved than anything else.

The guns were supplied, as was the ammo. Each shooter got a few shots to familiarize themselves with the gun, but were NOT allowed to adjust sights or otherwise sight in the guns for themselves.

So, literally, the shot going where the sights were aimed was a matter of luck of the draw. Close was common but being right on was not something you could count on, and right on for one shooter could easily be just a bit off for the next. Targets were mostly reactive, lot of fun watching them break but also seeing shooter just barely miss the bottle due to lack of being able to sight in the gun for themselves just put the lie to "marksmanship" being a factor, in my view.
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Old April 22, 2021, 04:40 PM   #42
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That was an entertaining show. But I was not a fan of they way they chose people for elimination until the last season. Also I really did not like the way then went in cold to a lot of the challenges and were given a gun to shoot that they were not familiar with, or had not had a chance to really shoot and understand that individual gun.
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Old April 22, 2021, 06:41 PM   #43
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Shadow is right

Mirriam- Webster

a person skilled in shooting at a mark or target


small 5 and even 10 shot groups have a huge luck factor look at all the benchrest records that were set by people you never heard of 5, 10 20 and 30 years back that have never been broken
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Old April 22, 2021, 08:34 PM   #44
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I am about to go off on a 280 AI long range quest. I have never shot more than 100-200 yards.

I have been watching Erik's videos for awhile now. Before I buy dies I want to know what his process is. I know he talks about just buying Lapua brass, but besides that. I have seen him use a universal decapping die and not a neck sizer or expander ball type. He uses a an FL sizing die to bump the shoulders back. Also it looks as though he uses like an LE Wilson chamber seating die with a hydro press so he can measure seat pressure.

Is this what you're seeing?
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Old April 22, 2021, 10:50 PM   #45
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This discussion is getting very far afield. This is the Reloading discussion area. The post that opened this discussion wasn't about firearms or marksmanship or which type of competition is the most difficult -- it was about a system (or maybe a philosophy) of reloading. Let's get back to the topic and quit squabbling over matters that belong in other discussion areas.
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Old April 22, 2021, 10:51 PM   #46
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What I have discovered is that the best thing I can do to improve accuracy of one of my rifles is to pillar-bed it with a floated barrel.
Ever seen somebody bed a Savage Accu-stock









Now you have haha , the rifle showed no improvement in accuracy so I popped the bedding back out .

For those trying to bed your action for the first time . A trick you might want to try is use model clay as a test/dry run . This will give you an idea how much material to use and where it gets pushed to .

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Old April 22, 2021, 10:51 PM   #47
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I am about to go off on a 280 AI long range quest. I have never shot more than 100-200 yards.

I have been watching Erik's videos for awhile now. Before I buy dies I want to know what his process is. I know he talks about just buying Lapua brass, but besides that. I have seen him use a universal decapping die and not a neck sizer or expander ball type. He uses a an FL sizing die to bump the shoulders back. Also it looks as though he uses like an LE Wilson chamber seating die with a hydro press so he can measure seat pressure.

Is this what you're seeing?
He says do not neck size. Only and always full length. Based on his talk with speedy another shooter I suspect he is using a lyman s bushing die. But I am not 100% on that.

Yes that seems correct on the rest of it

I would also add he states he anneals the necks every time, and likes berger bullets, but also seems to have lapua bullets as well, but that may be due to his sponsorship by them.
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Old April 23, 2021, 09:32 AM   #48
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I think with all the topic drift from Cortina's loading method to pretty much anything that affects accuracy and including things that really belong in the gun smithing forum, this one has run its course.
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