Possibly a really stupid question but...

Madball6 · April 13, 2011, 12:42 AM

Thinking about getting into reloading, I understand the actual bullets are one of the most expensive components of the reloading operation. I understand that many people will cast their own bullets out of lead. My question is, can you cast bullets out of copper? I have access to quite a bit of free copper, but not lead, was wondering if it was possible (and safe) to cast bullets made entirely of copper?

Lost Sheep · April 13, 2011, 01:19 AM

Thanks for asking an intriguing question.

As I understand it, lead has some characteristics making it imminently suitable for bullets.

Its density makes it retain its velocity at distance very well.

Its softness makes it engage the rifling in the barrel. Also, sealing well against the inside of the bore.

Its softness also makes it expand or mushroom when it hits flesh, creating a larger wound channel that its original size.

Now, there have been solid copper or bronze bullets (Google the term "punch bullet" designed to penetrate through dense, heavily muscled game or heavy bone (think Cape Buffalo, Elephant, Rhinocerous, Grizzly Bear)

I think your biggest problem would be the melting temperature. Look it up on Google to see how hot you would have to get copper to make it liquefy. Lead is a WHOLE LOT easier to work with.

This is just off the top of my head. I think you would be better off to take your copper and trade it at a metal scrap dealer for a lot more lead.

As always, believe only half of what you see with your own eyes, and only a quarter of what you hear. That goes double for anything you learn on the internet from casual sources. Verify everything you learn, even this post. Maybe especially this post.

Good luck

Lost Sheep

Madball6 · April 13, 2011, 01:39 AM

Just looked it up copper melting point is 1983, lead is at 621 (farenhiet) That seems like it might be a deal breaker on all copper bullets... not sure how expensive It would be to find a furnace in that range. Oh well, guess i'll just have to find more lead. As a side note was also curious about from a health and cleanliness aspect. I'm guessing copper is healthier to work with then lead and also alot cleaner to run through my guns.

edward5759 · April 13, 2011, 02:00 AM

Copper and steel do not glide very well on each other.
This is why you get copper fowling. Brass is a much better than copper when it comes to a gliding metal, but will often gall, like aluminum, in stainless steel barrels. Most copper jackets have a mixture "mostly copper" Then some tin and zinc. Tin acts as a lubricant. copper can cause health problems as well. I made solid brass bullets in the past in a lathe and had mixed results, mostly becoming unstable and not enough sectional density. I have machined pure copper bullets before, they tear the heck out of HS steel tooling and carbide inserts.

Best to cast lead, lead with a gas check, or to buy them.

Ed5759

Dr. Strangelove · April 13, 2011, 02:04 AM

Yep, take the copper to the recycler, use the cash to buy bullets. Shoot, people around here are stealing wiring and plumbing out of chicken houses, empty homes, and even power sub stations.

dlb435 · April 13, 2011, 10:39 AM

You can also swag your own bullets but this is a lot more expensive to set up than casting your own lead bullets. Casting copper would require a crucibal and a blast furnace to get the 1990 degrees F you will need to pour the metal. I've cast copper and bronze. It's a very hot and dangerous process. Visit a foundary or glass blower to see it in action.

mapsjanhere · April 13, 2011, 11:43 AM

Also be aware that your scrap copper might contain a lot of alloying or contaminating metals which have a significant vapor pressure at liquid copper temperatures, making inhalation of fumes a real health hazard.
Trading your local recycler for wheel weights and other lead scrap would be much more efficient.

rbursek · April 13, 2011, 12:13 PM

Go to your local tire store, and buy some old wheel weights, a bit harder then just pure lead for bullet casting, so higher FPS without fouling the barrel as much. Take the copper to the recycler to pay for the wheel weights, or they may have them right there, but usually that is market price where the tire store maybe cheaper.

Tbojo · April 13, 2011, 03:57 PM

What kind of a mold could you use to cast copper bullets? That high temp - no way an aluminum one would stand up to it. A cast mold might but would the copper stick to it? Lead seems a whole lot easier, just keep your casting temps under 900 and your risk of lead contamination is minimal (unless you eat it!).

dlb435 · April 13, 2011, 04:06 PM

You cast into ceramic or clay molds. The mold is then chiped away from the cast peice.
A better alternative would be to get copper rods and machine them down to size. This would be fine if you didn't have to pay for the rods. Lead is a lot cheaper.
Lead is about 1.30 per pound
Copper is about 4.40 per pound

You could go for uranium core bullets; that's only about $100.00 per pound.

**Mike Irwin** · April 13, 2011, 05:07 PM

"This is why you get copper fowling."

Beautiful birds, those copper fowl.

Longdayjake · April 13, 2011, 05:18 PM

classic. That would be one hard bird to hunt.

Jim Watson · April 13, 2011, 05:40 PM

I think the various copper and bronze bullets on the market today are turned from solid rod on an automatic lathe; not cast.

WhiskeyTango · April 13, 2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Go to your local tire store, and buy some old wheel weights, a bit harder then just pure lead for bullet casting, so higher FPS without fouling the barrel as much. Take the copper to the recycler to pay for the wheel weights

I've casted bullets using tire weights in the past, mostly balls for my black powder guns. It works pretty well, never measured velocities and such but didn't notice a difference between my casts and store bought bullets. If you just go in and ask real nice like if they've got any lead weights you can have, they'll usually just give them to you. I used to get about half a 3 gallon bucket every time I went down there.

**Mike Irwin** · April 13, 2011, 10:09 PM

"I think the various copper and bronze bullets on the market today are turned from solid rod on an automatic lathe; not cast. "

Probably the most famous of that kind of bullet was the French Balle D, a solid bronze, lathe-turned bullet for the 8mm Lebel.

April 13, 2011, 12:42 AM	#1
Madball6 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Posts: 211	Possibly a really stupid question but... Thinking about getting into reloading, I understand the actual bullets are one of the most expensive components of the reloading operation. I understand that many people will cast their own bullets out of lead. My question is, can you cast bullets out of copper? I have access to quite a bit of free copper, but not lead, was wondering if it was possible (and safe) to cast bullets made entirely of copper?

April 13, 2011, 01:19 AM	#2
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Lead, Copper, Bronze, Cast Iron (cannonballs, you know) Thanks for asking an intriguing question. As I understand it, lead has some characteristics making it imminently suitable for bullets. Its density makes it retain its velocity at distance very well. Its softness makes it engage the rifling in the barrel. Also, sealing well against the inside of the bore. Its softness also makes it expand or mushroom when it hits flesh, creating a larger wound channel that its original size. Now, there have been solid copper or bronze bullets (Google the term "punch bullet" designed to penetrate through dense, heavily muscled game or heavy bone (think Cape Buffalo, Elephant, Rhinocerous, Grizzly Bear) I think your biggest problem would be the melting temperature. Look it up on Google to see how hot you would have to get copper to make it liquefy. Lead is a WHOLE LOT easier to work with. This is just off the top of my head. I think you would be better off to take your copper and trade it at a metal scrap dealer for a lot more lead. As always, believe only half of what you see with your own eyes, and only a quarter of what you hear. That goes double for anything you learn on the internet from casual sources. Verify everything you learn, even this post. Maybe especially this post. Good luck Lost Sheep

April 13, 2011, 02:04 AM	#5
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Yep, take the copper to the recycler, use the cash to buy bullets. Shoot, people around here are stealing wiring and plumbing out of chicken houses, empty homes, and even power sub stations. __________________ Just remember, when you pull the trigger, the bullets come out going very, very fast. So make sure to keep the weapon pointing away from you.

April 13, 2011, 11:43 AM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Also be aware that your scrap copper might contain a lot of alloying or contaminating metals which have a significant vapor pressure at liquid copper temperatures, making inhalation of fumes a real health hazard. Trading your local recycler for wheel weights and other lead scrap would be much more efficient. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

April 13, 2011, 04:06 PM	#10
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	You cast into ceramic or clay molds. The mold is then chiped away from the cast peice. A better alternative would be to get copper rods and machine them down to size. This would be fine if you didn't have to pay for the rods. Lead is a lot cheaper. Lead is about 1.30 per pound Copper is about 4.40 per pound You could go for uranium core bullets; that's only about $100.00 per pound. Last edited by dlb435; April 13, 2011 at 04:12 PM.

April 13, 2011, 01:39 AM	#3
Madball6 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Posts: 211	Just looked it up copper melting point is 1983, lead is at 621 (farenhiet) That seems like it might be a deal breaker on all copper bullets... not sure how expensive It would be to find a furnace in that range. Oh well, guess i'll just have to find more lead. As a side note was also curious about from a health and cleanliness aspect. I'm guessing copper is healthier to work with then lead and also alot cleaner to run through my guns.

April 13, 2011, 02:00 AM	#4
edward5759 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ. 30 miles from water, two feet from Hell. Posts: 355	Copper and steel do not glide very well on each other. This is why you get copper fowling. Brass is a much better than copper when it comes to a gliding metal, but will often gall, like aluminum, in stainless steel barrels. Most copper jackets have a mixture "mostly copper" Then some tin and zinc. Tin acts as a lubricant. copper can cause health problems as well. I made solid brass bullets in the past in a lathe and had mixed results, mostly becoming unstable and not enough sectional density. I have machined pure copper bullets before, they tear the heck out of HS steel tooling and carbide inserts. Best to cast lead, lead with a gas check, or to buy them. Ed5759

April 13, 2011, 10:39 AM	#6
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	You can also swag your own bullets but this is a lot more expensive to set up than casting your own lead bullets. Casting copper would require a crucibal and a blast furnace to get the 1990 degrees F you will need to pour the metal. I've cast copper and bronze. It's a very hot and dangerous process. Visit a foundary or glass blower to see it in action.

April 13, 2011, 12:13 PM	#8
rbursek Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Milwaukkee, WI Posts: 152	Go to your local tire store, and buy some old wheel weights, a bit harder then just pure lead for bullet casting, so higher FPS without fouling the barrel as much. Take the copper to the recycler to pay for the wheel weights, or they may have them right there, but usually that is market price where the tire store maybe cheaper.

April 13, 2011, 03:57 PM	#9
Tbojo Member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 19	What kind of a mold could you use to cast copper bullets? That high temp - no way an aluminum one would stand up to it. A cast mold might but would the copper stick to it? Lead seems a whole lot easier, just keep your casting temps under 900 and your risk of lead contamination is minimal (unless you eat it!).

April 13, 2011, 05:07 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"This is why you get copper fowling." Beautiful birds, those copper fowl. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 13, 2011, 05:18 PM	#12
Longdayjake Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2009 Posts: 619	classic. That would be one hard bird to hunt. __________________ If you need bullets for reloading give my website a look. www.rmrbullets.com

April 13, 2011, 05:40 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I think the various copper and bronze bullets on the market today are turned from solid rod on an automatic lathe; not cast.

April 13, 2011, 10:09 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"I think the various copper and bronze bullets on the market today are turned from solid rod on an automatic lathe; not cast. " Probably the most famous of that kind of bullet was the French Balle D, a solid bronze, lathe-turned bullet for the 8mm Lebel. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.