45 acp defense round

Sector001 · May 26, 2007, 10:17 PM

Greetings all,

What do you guys recommend as far as powder and bullet goes for a good 45 acp personal defense round. I would prefer the 185 grain for a more controllable recoil, but I am certainly willing to entertain 230 grain bullets as well. Right now I'm using 7.0 grains of unique and a 185 grain Sierra JHP. While this is quite accurate out of my 4" XD, I am questioning how much pop it has. I have read that Unique is great for target loads, but is a bit too fast burning for maximum power. I have also read that the Sierra bullet is, dare I say, flimsy, (fragmenting when fired into water, etc). Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!

**Unclenick** · May 26, 2007, 10:48 PM

I suggest you search the forum on the topic. It has been rehashed many times. Hollow points generally are of less benefit in handgun rounds than a flat meplat bullet like the truncated cone design, except in the big magnums. I forget who said "a hollow point may or may not expand, but a .45 won't shrink?" Expansion can be unreliable in handguns and the size of the temporary cavity in all but the heavy magnums will not reliably reach the elastic limits of the tissue they penetrate. Forensic pathologists frequently comment that, unlike the much higher energy high power rifle rounds, at autopsy they cannot distinguish a handgun wound made by a hollow point from one made by a solid. There is, however, general agreement that flat meplats do more damage than round noses and stop game better.

Sierra has truncated cone shape target bullets in both 185 and 200 grains. Hornady's 230 grain Flat Point Enclosed bullet is almost a truncated cone. Cast TC designs are widely available. The lighter bullets offer some decrease in penetration which is a safety concern in apartments and some other environments, but is generally not beneficial to stopping power, hard as that is to define.

Powder speed is does not have quite as simple a relationship to the bullet performance as you may think. Unique will get you past military hardball ballistics. The even faster Bullseye, at 5.0 grains under a round nose 230 grain ball mimics military ballistics exactly. In a short tube, you usually must go to an extra heavy bullet to offer enough acceleration resistance to develop pressure soon enough for a slow powder to burn effectively, unless you go well into +P or even +P+ pressure territory as the shooters with integral ramp or other supported barrel designs sometimes do. Your Unique will actually achieve higher velocities with the lighter bullets than slower powders usually can.

Edward429451 · May 26, 2007, 11:44 PM

If 7.0 gr of Unique/ 185 JHP don't have enough pop for you then go to a heavier bullet.

6.0 gr Unique with a 230 FMJ will get you there.
6.5 gr Unique with a 225 gr Lead bullet will too.
Or 5.5 gr of WW-231 with lead or jacketed 230's.

These loads all meet or exceed milspec in my gun. (1911)

Mr Beta · May 27, 2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

6.0 gr Unique with a 230 FMJ will get you there.

+1
I actually use golddot. I push a 230 gold dot with I think 6.5 grains of unique. Again don't quote me on that but I believe it's just above the minimum load.

Also, don't be suprised if you get a bunch of people in here saying not to use handload for defense rounds because of legality issues.

Desert Dog · May 27, 2007, 11:14 AM

10.3 grains of AA#7 under a 230 gr. Sierra Power Jacket.

It is near max load for the powder.

WESHOOT2 · May 28, 2007, 11:17 AM

Utter reliability.
Trusted accuracy.
Complete controllability.
Sufficient power.
Minimum flash/smoke/noise.

Sized W-W or R-P nickel case, CCI300, R-P 230g Golden Saber (I prefer and use the non-bonded version for this application), 5.0--5.5g W231 (yes, W231), OAL 1.225", mouth crimped to .471" with a LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die, George & Roy's Primer Sealant.

Careful process will yield reliable ammunition capable of sub-2" 25 yd groups with sufficient 'stopping power'.

May 26, 2007, 10:17 PM	#1
Sector001 Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The buckle of the bible belt: Birmingham, AL. Posts: 23	45 acp defense round Greetings all, What do you guys recommend as far as powder and bullet goes for a good 45 acp personal defense round. I would prefer the 185 grain for a more controllable recoil, but I am certainly willing to entertain 230 grain bullets as well. Right now I'm using 7.0 grains of unique and a 185 grain Sierra JHP. While this is quite accurate out of my 4" XD, I am questioning how much pop it has. I have read that Unique is great for target loads, but is a bit too fast burning for maximum power. I have also read that the Sierra bullet is, dare I say, flimsy, (fragmenting when fired into water, etc). Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

May 26, 2007, 10:48 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I suggest you search the forum on the topic. It has been rehashed many times. Hollow points generally are of less benefit in handgun rounds than a flat meplat bullet like the truncated cone design, except in the big magnums. I forget who said "a hollow point may or may not expand, but a .45 won't shrink?" Expansion can be unreliable in handguns and the size of the temporary cavity in all but the heavy magnums will not reliably reach the elastic limits of the tissue they penetrate. Forensic pathologists frequently comment that, unlike the much higher energy high power rifle rounds, at autopsy they cannot distinguish a handgun wound made by a hollow point from one made by a solid. There is, however, general agreement that flat meplats do more damage than round noses and stop game better. Sierra has truncated cone shape target bullets in both 185 and 200 grains. Hornady's 230 grain Flat Point Enclosed bullet is almost a truncated cone. Cast TC designs are widely available. The lighter bullets offer some decrease in penetration which is a safety concern in apartments and some other environments, but is generally not beneficial to stopping power, hard as that is to define. Powder speed is does not have quite as simple a relationship to the bullet performance as you may think. Unique will get you past military hardball ballistics. The even faster Bullseye, at 5.0 grains under a round nose 230 grain ball mimics military ballistics exactly. In a short tube, you usually must go to an extra heavy bullet to offer enough acceleration resistance to develop pressure soon enough for a slow powder to burn effectively, unless you go well into +P or even +P+ pressure territory as the shooters with integral ramp or other supported barrel designs sometimes do. Your Unique will actually achieve higher velocities with the lighter bullets than slower powders usually can. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 27, 2007, 11:14 AM	#5
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 1999 Location: Deep East Texas Posts: 474	10.3 grains of AA#7 under a 230 gr. Sierra Power Jacket. It is near max load for the powder. __________________ Yes, in fact I do have a 454... in more ways than one. "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

May 28, 2007, 11:17 AM	#6
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	actual Utter reliability. Trusted accuracy. Complete controllability. Sufficient power. Minimum flash/smoke/noise. Sized W-W or R-P nickel case, CCI300, R-P 230g Golden Saber (I prefer and use the non-bonded version for this application), 5.0--5.5g W231 (yes, W231), OAL 1.225", mouth crimped to .471" with a LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die, George & Roy's Primer Sealant. Careful process will yield reliable ammunition capable of sub-2" 25 yd groups with sufficient 'stopping power'. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 26, 2007, 11:44 PM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	If 7.0 gr of Unique/ 185 JHP don't have enough pop for you then go to a heavier bullet. 6.0 gr Unique with a 230 FMJ will get you there. 6.5 gr Unique with a 225 gr Lead bullet will too. Or 5.5 gr of WW-231 with lead or jacketed 230's. These loads all meet or exceed milspec in my gun. (1911)