Trigger Squeeze

BJung · September 23, 2020, 10:10 AM

How many of you use the word squeeze or press to refer to pulling your trigger back on you handgun. I ran across a fellow on youtube who used the word stroke. I stroked my front finger across the table and made an effort to draw my finger and straight back to reduce torque. I think he's also a trap shooter. I thought it was a nice word to mentally manipulate us to be sure your finger is pulling the trigger straight back.

What mental steps do you take when shooting your pistol?

**Aguila Blanca** · September 23, 2020, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbank jung

What mental steps do you take when shooting your pistol?

I align the sights on the target.

I've been shooting for about 68 years, and shooting 1911s for more than 50 years. By now, my trigger finger knows what to do without my having to think about it.

ghbucky · September 23, 2020, 12:26 PM

make sure your finger is on the trigger opposite the cuticle of your index finger and the pull, stroke, squeeze whatever you want to call it won't move the gun to either side.

BJung · September 23, 2020, 12:39 PM

Aguila. Is there any special advice you can give me about the .45? I've owned for probably 15 years and only put less than 40 rounds through it. I've started looking for test loads for it and discovered afterwards that my petloads using Bullseye for 230gr RN and 200LSWC was the same as the universal recommendation!

I've read this book titled the Perfect Pistol Shot and it was very helpful. It's still a strange feeling to look at the target and then change your focus on the sights when where you want the bullet is the target.

BJung · September 23, 2020, 12:47 PM

I think trigger pull is one of the most common problems with pistol shooters. It's not even pulling the trigger 1000 times or whatever number to strengthen your finger muscles. It's consciously pull, press, stroking that trigger back enough times consciously that it become a part of your subconscious. You just do it, as Aquila said. I personally like the stroke because it confers the whole motion so you can be read for a follow up shot. The press in my mind. I have to consciously think of the force going straight through the center of the trigger, the frame of the handgun, two my eye. Okay for Bullseye but not rapid shooting. I know, everyone is different but this is part of how my mind is processing the shot.

HistoryJunky · September 23, 2020, 01:02 PM

IMO it depends on what type of pistol you are shooting.

The fundamentals are the same.

But it is a lot more difficult to master a DAO or DA/SA trigger than SAO triggers or striker fire.

All my handguns except for 1 are DA/SA. I don't even really pull the trigger the "same" way for the DA shots.

I pull straight back all the way through the DA travel, trying to maintain consistency.

Single action is more of a gentle squeeze.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

DaleA · September 23, 2020, 02:38 PM

You might like the video linked below.
"AIMING IS USELESS! 3 Secrets To Great Shooting | Rob Leatham 6x IPSC World Champion!"

Rangerrich99 posted the video about a month ago and I thought it was really interesting. The title of course is more than a little bombastic and designed to get your attention but the video makes some good points

Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0r...ature=youtu.be

BJung · September 23, 2020, 04:53 PM

I agree that mastering a DAO and DA/SA handgun is more difficult. I tried my brother's Ruger once and returned to my SA handgun. To me, the DA semi-auto's first shot is like shooting a DA revolver. History Junky, I like your description of the trigger pull for the DA.

BJung · September 23, 2020, 04:55 PM

Let me add so someone can improve on my method, when I DA my revolver, I pull halfway first to take up most of the slack, pause, and concentrate on the final trigger pull more slowly and carefully. Does anyone do the same and can it be done on a semi-auto?

**Aguila Blanca** · September 23, 2020, 05:45 PM

Combining two responses into one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbank jung

Aguila. Is there any special advice you can give me about the .45? I've owned for probably 15 years and only put less than 40 rounds through it. ...

My primary advice would be to dry fire -- a lot. If you can, tape a very small flashlight or a cheap airsoft laser pointer to it so you can instantly see if the gun moves off the point of aim as you pull/press/squeeze/stroke the trigger.

I don't like to get hung up on the terminology of what you call moving the trigger to release the sear. It doesn't matter what you call it, what matters is that you do it smoothly, without upsetting the point of aim. After awhile, muscle memory takes over. But the adage that "Practice makes perfect" is wrong. If you practice doing it wrong, your muscles will learn to do it wrong, and then it's ten times more difficult to overcome the bad habit(s). The correct adage is "PERFECT practice makes perfect."

For shooting (rifle or handgun, but more for handgun because a firm grip is more critical) I advise students to get a Gripmaster. Best is to buy as et, so you can gradually increase the resistance. The Gripmaster allows you to train your hand muscles so the last three fingers maintain a solid grip while the trigger finger moves independently of the others. For some people this is natural -- for others, it's difficult to learn.

https://prohands.net/

Quote:

I've read this book titled the Perfect Pistol Shot and it was very helpful. It's still a strange feeling to look at the target and then change your focus on the sights when where you want the bullet is the target.

Do you primarily shoot scoped rifles? The advice to focus on the front sight is THE standard for shooting for as long as I can remember. That's the way my grandfather taught me, that's what the riflery instructor taught us at camp when I was a kid, and that's what the U.S. Army taught when I went through Basic Training in 1966.

The front sight is the smallest of the three things your eye has to coordinate when shooting, that's why it's the part that should be in the sharpest focus. Whether you use a six o'clock hold or a center hold, you can't know when the sights are correctly aligned and on the target if the front sight is blurry.

Quote:

I think trigger pull is one of the most common problems with pistol shooters. It's not even pulling the trigger 1000 times or whatever number to strengthen your finger muscles. It's consciously pull, press, stroking that trigger back enough times consciously that it become a part of your subconscious. You just do it, as Aquila said. I personally like the stroke because it confers the whole motion so you can be read for a follow up shot. The press in my mind. I have to consciously think of the force going straight through the center of the trigger, the frame of the handgun, two my eye. Okay for Bullseye but not rapid shooting. I know, everyone is different but this is part of how my mind is processing the shot.

Pulling the trigger 1,000 times (or 10 times, or 10,000 times) isn't about strengthening the trigger finger. If you need to bulk up the muscles in your finger to pull the trigger, you have a gun that needs help from a good gunsmith. The purpose of many trigger pulls (whether it's live fire, dry fire, BB guns or airsoft replicas) is to train the muscles so the trigger finger operates independently of the thumb and the other three fingers. For some people, the act of pulling the trigger (whatever term you apply to the act) results in simultaneously tightening the muscles of all the other fingers. That's what drags the muzzle off the line of intended aim. The importance of trigger time is to train the muscles in the hands (because with handguns, most of the time we use a two-handed grip) to hold the gun firmly while allowing the trigger finger to move withOUT any accompanying tightening of the muscles in any other finger.

Hope that helps ...

HistoryJunky · September 23, 2020, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbank_jung

Let me add so someone can improve on my method, when I DA my revolver, I pull halfway first to take up most of the slack, pause, and concentrate on the final trigger pull more slowly and carefully. Does anyone do the same and can it be done on a semi-auto?

I think this method is good if you're trying to get good groups when shooting DA.

I don't really think that I would have time to remember or would do it instinctually if I was shooting in a self defense situation.

That is my main reason for pulling the trigger the way I do. I just try to pull completely through in one continuous, smooth motion.

Dry fire helps a lot. I find that even though I practice it a lot, if I dry fire a lot of shots in DA quickly then my accuracy will suffer.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Bart B. · September 23, 2020, 06:52 PM

Tape a laser pointer to the barrel then watch its red spot bounce around as you dry fire.

TunnelRat · September 23, 2020, 06:55 PM

I’ll second the recommendation for a ProHands grip exerciser. It made a big difference for me. Dry fire also makes a notable difference. Even after years of shooting I find that weeks where I dry fire I do notably better during live fire. I’ll also share this dry fire tip which I’ve found helpful.

https://pistol-training.com/archives/118

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ricklin · September 24, 2020, 09:47 AM

At least for me and my Gen 3 Glock 19.
Dryfire really improved the trigger stroke, action, pull, press, of the pistol.

What ever we choose to call it, the trigger improved.

Erno86 · September 24, 2020, 02:55 PM

I prefer the term "press" instead of "squeeze" --- "Stroke" might take me some time getting used to.

Mike38 · September 24, 2020, 08:16 PM

Make sure your finger is on the trigger in a position which allows you to press the trigger rearward so as it's complete movement will not move the sights. It could be at a mid point between tip and first joint. It could be 3/4 of the way between tip and first joint. It could be at the joint. It's different for every person. Try every position you can think of, the one that works best is the correct one for you. Eleven time Camp Perry Precision Pistol Champion Brain Zins puts his trigger finger deep into the trigger guard. All the way to the joint. He won Camp Perry eleven times, I think he knows how to shoot a pistol. Also, train yourself to think "Press The Trigger". Not pull, not squeeze. Press. As in press the trigger straight rearward. If your mind thinks pull, that's what you'll do, pull the shot. If your mind thinks squeeze, you'll squeeze your entire hand. Press the trigger straight rearward in such a fashion as to not move any other part of the pistol or your other fingers.

BJung · September 24, 2020, 09:44 PM

Press could work for me. But now let's move forward. Tell me about follow up? After the sight rises your trigger finger slackens so the trigger starts to move back to its original position and your front sight is coming down. Now what? What I think is a guess like maybe holding the trigger in so you don't have press through the full travel again? I'm sure some of you have trained rapid fire.

Bart B. · September 25, 2020, 09:07 AM

When I started shooting military pistol matches, the command small arms marksmanship Instructor would not issue match grade ammo to anyone until they could dry fire the pistol with a 22 rimfire case resting on the front sight's flat top. The case must not fall off. Ten times in a row.

Good way to learn correct trigger control

Double K · September 25, 2020, 10:05 AM

Dry firing isn't fun especially if you do it enough to really get good.....but's there is no substitute for it.
Rules for dry firing
No ammunition in the same room
Anytime you lay the gun down recheck the chamber before dry firing again
Don't dry fire at anything your not willing to have a hole in

It takes me 30-50 dry fires before I start to settle in for a session, stop after that.
It takes 3-5 days of dry firing twice a day before I peak
Everyone is different so these numbers are just a guide.

BJung · September 25, 2020, 11:53 AM

I assume everyone that dry fires uses snap caps or something similar.

For semi-autos, do you slide and eject every snap cap or pull the hammer back?

Minor issues but curious.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 25, 2020, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbank jung

I assume everyone that dry fires uses snap caps or something similar.

I don't. Why would you assume that?

It depends on the firearm. I shoot 1911s. Generally, 1911s can be dry fired with no negative consequences. Some other types of pistols are prone to breaking the firing pin if dry fired without a snap cap in place.

Quote:

For semi-autos, do you slide and eject every snap cap or pull the hammer back?

Pull the hammer back.

ghbucky · September 25, 2020, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Press could work for me. But now let's move forward. Tell me about follow up? After the sight rises your trigger finger slackens so the trigger starts to move back to its original position and your front sight is coming down. Now what? What I think is a guess like maybe holding the trigger in so you don't have press through the full travel again? I'm sure some of you have trained rapid fire.

Allow the trigger to travel back to reset and hold it there until your front sight is on the target and between the rear sight blades and then fire again.

Ideally, you should be reset when your sights come back down. Not something I consistently do.

[edit] You might want to check out Brian Enos's book: Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals

TunnelRat · September 25, 2020, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbank_jung

I assume everyone that dry fires uses snap caps or something similar.

For semi-autos, do you slide and eject every snap cap or pull the hammer back?

Minor issues but curious.

I generally do, but it’s not such a requirement that I won’t dry fire without one.

It depends on the mechanism. If it’s a striker fired pistol that doesn’t have a DA mode then I retract the slide enough to cock the striker. If it’s a hammer fired pistol that is single action only or I am practicing the single action mode of a DA/SA pistol then sure I’ll cock the hammer. For DA/SA pistols most of my dry fire is in DA.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TunnelRat · September 25, 2020, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

Don't listen to a fellow on YouTube. Anybody can post anything they want there.

Just like here

.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Double K · September 25, 2020, 01:44 PM

I've never known anyone who really enjoys dry firing beyond a couple of minutes but if you do I'm jealous because I've spent alot time in my garage/basement that wasn't fun getting ready for tournaments.
T o'heir
"Dry firing isn't fun..." It's a very long time and well known training technique for practicing sight picture, breathing and trigger control. And it can be fun.

September 23, 2020, 10:10 AM	#1
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	Trigger Squeeze How many of you use the word squeeze or press to refer to pulling your trigger back on you handgun. I ran across a fellow on youtube who used the word stroke. I stroked my front finger across the table and made an effort to draw my finger and straight back to reduce torque. I think he's also a trap shooter. I thought it was a nice word to mentally manipulate us to be sure your finger is pulling the trigger straight back. What mental steps do you take when shooting your pistol?

September 24, 2020, 09:47 AM	#14
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,013	Not to mention At least for me and my Gen 3 Glock 19. Dryfire really improved the trigger stroke, action, pull, press, of the pistol. What ever we choose to call it, the trigger improved. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

September 24, 2020, 02:55 PM	#15
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	I prefer the term "press" instead of "squeeze" --- "Stroke" might take me some time getting used to. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

September 23, 2020, 12:26 PM	#3
ghbucky Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2020 Posts: 1,177	make sure your finger is on the trigger opposite the cuticle of your index finger and the pull, stroke, squeeze whatever you want to call it won't move the gun to either side.

September 23, 2020, 12:39 PM	#4
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	Aguila. Is there any special advice you can give me about the .45? I've owned for probably 15 years and only put less than 40 rounds through it. I've started looking for test loads for it and discovered afterwards that my petloads using Bullseye for 230gr RN and 200LSWC was the same as the universal recommendation! I've read this book titled the Perfect Pistol Shot and it was very helpful. It's still a strange feeling to look at the target and then change your focus on the sights when where you want the bullet is the target.

September 23, 2020, 12:47 PM	#5
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	I think trigger pull is one of the most common problems with pistol shooters. It's not even pulling the trigger 1000 times or whatever number to strengthen your finger muscles. It's consciously pull, press, stroking that trigger back enough times consciously that it become a part of your subconscious. You just do it, as Aquila said. I personally like the stroke because it confers the whole motion so you can be read for a follow up shot. The press in my mind. I have to consciously think of the force going straight through the center of the trigger, the frame of the handgun, two my eye. Okay for Bullseye but not rapid shooting. I know, everyone is different but this is part of how my mind is processing the shot.

September 23, 2020, 01:02 PM	#6
HistoryJunky Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Location: Freeport, IL Posts: 833	IMO it depends on what type of pistol you are shooting. The fundamentals are the same. But it is a lot more difficult to master a DAO or DA/SA trigger than SAO triggers or striker fire. All my handguns except for 1 are DA/SA. I don't even really pull the trigger the "same" way for the DA shots. I pull straight back all the way through the DA travel, trying to maintain consistency. Single action is more of a gentle squeeze. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

September 23, 2020, 02:38 PM	#7
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	You might like the video linked below. "AIMING IS USELESS! 3 Secrets To Great Shooting \| Rob Leatham 6x IPSC World Champion!" Rangerrich99 posted the video about a month ago and I thought it was really interesting. The title of course is more than a little bombastic and designed to get your attention but the video makes some good points Good luck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0r...ature=youtu.be

September 23, 2020, 04:53 PM	#8
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	I agree that mastering a DAO and DA/SA handgun is more difficult. I tried my brother's Ruger once and returned to my SA handgun. To me, the DA semi-auto's first shot is like shooting a DA revolver. History Junky, I like your description of the trigger pull for the DA.

September 23, 2020, 04:55 PM	#9
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	Let me add so someone can improve on my method, when I DA my revolver, I pull halfway first to take up most of the slack, pause, and concentrate on the final trigger pull more slowly and carefully. Does anyone do the same and can it be done on a semi-auto?

September 23, 2020, 06:52 PM	#12
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Tape a laser pointer to the barrel then watch its red spot bounce around as you dry fire.

September 23, 2020, 06:55 PM	#13
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I’ll second the recommendation for a ProHands grip exerciser. It made a big difference for me. Dry fire also makes a notable difference. Even after years of shooting I find that weeks where I dry fire I do notably better during live fire. I’ll also share this dry fire tip which I’ve found helpful. https://pistol-training.com/archives/118 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 24, 2020, 08:16 PM	#16
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Make sure your finger is on the trigger in a position which allows you to press the trigger rearward so as it's complete movement will not move the sights. It could be at a mid point between tip and first joint. It could be 3/4 of the way between tip and first joint. It could be at the joint. It's different for every person. Try every position you can think of, the one that works best is the correct one for you. Eleven time Camp Perry Precision Pistol Champion Brain Zins puts his trigger finger deep into the trigger guard. All the way to the joint. He won Camp Perry eleven times, I think he knows how to shoot a pistol. Also, train yourself to think "Press The Trigger". Not pull, not squeeze. Press. As in press the trigger straight rearward. If your mind thinks pull, that's what you'll do, pull the shot. If your mind thinks squeeze, you'll squeeze your entire hand. Press the trigger straight rearward in such a fashion as to not move any other part of the pistol or your other fingers.

September 24, 2020, 09:44 PM	#17
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	Press could work for me. But now let's move forward. Tell me about follow up? After the sight rises your trigger finger slackens so the trigger starts to move back to its original position and your front sight is coming down. Now what? What I think is a guess like maybe holding the trigger in so you don't have press through the full travel again? I'm sure some of you have trained rapid fire.

September 25, 2020, 09:07 AM	#18
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	When I started shooting military pistol matches, the command small arms marksmanship Instructor would not issue match grade ammo to anyone until they could dry fire the pistol with a 22 rimfire case resting on the front sight's flat top. The case must not fall off. Ten times in a row. Good way to learn correct trigger control

September 25, 2020, 10:05 AM	#19
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	Dry firing isn't fun especially if you do it enough to really get good.....but's there is no substitute for it. Rules for dry firing No ammunition in the same room Anytime you lay the gun down recheck the chamber before dry firing again Don't dry fire at anything your not willing to have a hole in It takes me 30-50 dry fires before I start to settle in for a session, stop after that. It takes 3-5 days of dry firing twice a day before I peak Everyone is different so these numbers are just a guide.

September 25, 2020, 11:53 AM	#20
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	I assume everyone that dry fires uses snap caps or something similar. For semi-autos, do you slide and eject every snap cap or pull the hammer back? Minor issues but curious.

September 25, 2020, 01:44 PM	#25
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	I've never known anyone who really enjoys dry firing beyond a couple of minutes but if you do I'm jealous because I've spent alot time in my garage/basement that wasn't fun getting ready for tournaments. T o'heir "Dry firing isn't fun..." It's a very long time and well known training technique for practicing sight picture, breathing and trigger control. And it can be fun.