Confused

mapsjanhere · September 15, 2017, 08:33 PM

https://www.cdnnsports.com/remington...ess-tac14.html

Shotgun, 14" barrel, pistol grip

How is that not a NFA AOW?

Onward Allusion · September 15, 2017, 10:16 PM

How? 'Cause the BATFE said so. Don't ask if it makes senses, however. NFA & GCA '68 are jokes.

jmr40 · September 16, 2017, 06:42 AM

I'm a little confused as well. As far as I can tell it is sold as a handgun instead of a shotgun and that is how they get around it.

mapsjanhere · September 16, 2017, 07:30 AM

They are selling it as a hand gun, but I don't see anything in regards to rifling, what is the usual way to get around the SBS rule.

ShootistPRS · September 16, 2017, 11:13 AM

The firearm in question is not a shotgun by the ATFE definition. It was never designed to be fired from the shoulder. What keeps it from being an AOW is its length. It is at least 26 inches long over all. By definition it is not "easily concealed" and it is not a pistol. It is designed to be fired using two hands not one.
It skirts around all the definitions but as long as the ATFE is OK with it then it is good.

Kvon2 · September 16, 2017, 11:49 AM

ShootistPRS is exactly right, it's totally fine as last night as it's at least 26 inches. I believe (and could definitely be wrong) but because it does not have a rifled barrel it can't be considered a handgun either.

FITASC · September 16, 2017, 12:16 PM

That elongated birds head grip gets the length right. Putting a standard vertical pistol grip makes it too short.

T. O'Heir · September 16, 2017, 12:44 PM

"...Overall Length: 26.3"..."
"...are jokes..." Not exactly funny. It was the GCA of 1968 that created the ATF and allows unelected civil servants to make law by regulation. The NFA is/was about keeping firearms out of the hands of the poor. $200 was an astronomical amount of money in 1934.

ShootistPRS · September 16, 2017, 01:40 PM

The ATF became a separate entity in 1972, July 1, under the direction of Rex Davis. Before that, as far back as 1791, the Department of Revenue covered the controls on the beverage alcohol and tobacco. Firearms became part of the job for the Department of Revenue with the NFA in 1934 in response to organized crimes use of automatic weapons and silencers. Places like Chicago, where it was almost commonplace to have full auto exchange between different criminal organizations on the street, added to the public outcry for constraints. It did make it more expensive to own full auto weapons but there were and are still lots of cheap guns for the "poor".

FITASC · September 16, 2017, 04:54 PM

The $200 amount was what a Thompson cost in 1934

kozak6 · September 17, 2017, 05:46 AM

It's not a handgun. It's a Title 1 other. It transfers like a pistol, but isn't one.

It's not an AOW because the ATF interpreted 26" as the bright line for "concealable", that they forgot to interpret a barrel length as well, and because (I think) they are too scared of the current administration to "fix" it.

I'm also curious why it isn't a DD.

FITASC · September 17, 2017, 11:11 AM

Same reason the Mossberg 500 Cruiser isn't a DD.

Don Fischer · September 19, 2017, 12:57 PM

A guy I worked with in Alaska had a shotgun similar to that but the barrel was cut to 1/4" over legal. The butt stock was cut off and re-shaped as a pistol grip. He told me he carried it for bears. But I knew him a couple years and he not only never hunted but seldom wandered far from home either. But he loved that gun! I'm thinking it was a Mossberg 500 he'd cut down! Using it for home defense would work pretty well!

September 15, 2017, 08:33 PM	#1
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Confused https://www.cdnnsports.com/remington...ess-tac14.html Shotgun, 14" barrel, pistol grip How is that not a NFA AOW? __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

September 15, 2017, 10:16 PM	#2
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	How? 'Cause the BATFE said so. Don't ask if it makes senses, however. NFA & GCA '68 are jokes. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

September 16, 2017, 06:42 AM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I'm a little confused as well. As far as I can tell it is sold as a handgun instead of a shotgun and that is how they get around it. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

September 16, 2017, 07:30 AM	#4
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	They are selling it as a hand gun, but I don't see anything in regards to rifling, what is the usual way to get around the SBS rule. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

September 16, 2017, 12:16 PM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,440	That elongated birds head grip gets the length right. Putting a standard vertical pistol grip makes it too short. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 16, 2017, 11:13 AM	#5
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	The firearm in question is not a shotgun by the ATFE definition. It was never designed to be fired from the shoulder. What keeps it from being an AOW is its length. It is at least 26 inches long over all. By definition it is not "easily concealed" and it is not a pistol. It is designed to be fired using two hands not one. It skirts around all the definitions but as long as the ATFE is OK with it then it is good.

September 16, 2017, 11:49 AM	#6
Kvon2 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 757	ShootistPRS is exactly right, it's totally fine as last night as it's at least 26 inches. I believe (and could definitely be wrong) but because it does not have a rifled barrel it can't be considered a handgun either.

September 16, 2017, 12:44 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Overall Length: 26.3"..." "...are jokes..." Not exactly funny. It was the GCA of 1968 that created the ATF and allows unelected civil servants to make law by regulation. The NFA is/was about keeping firearms out of the hands of the poor. $200 was an astronomical amount of money in 1934. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 16, 2017, 01:40 PM	#9
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	The ATF became a separate entity in 1972, July 1, under the direction of Rex Davis. Before that, as far back as 1791, the Department of Revenue covered the controls on the beverage alcohol and tobacco. Firearms became part of the job for the Department of Revenue with the NFA in 1934 in response to organized crimes use of automatic weapons and silencers. Places like Chicago, where it was almost commonplace to have full auto exchange between different criminal organizations on the street, added to the public outcry for constraints. It did make it more expensive to own full auto weapons but there were and are still lots of cheap guns for the "poor".

September 16, 2017, 04:54 PM	#10
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,440	The $200 amount was what a Thompson cost in 1934 __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 17, 2017, 05:46 AM	#11
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	It's not a handgun. It's a Title 1 other. It transfers like a pistol, but isn't one. It's not an AOW because the ATF interpreted 26" as the bright line for "concealable", that they forgot to interpret a barrel length as well, and because (I think) they are too scared of the current administration to "fix" it. I'm also curious why it isn't a DD.

September 17, 2017, 11:11 AM	#12
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,440	Same reason the Mossberg 500 Cruiser isn't a DD. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 19, 2017, 12:57 PM	#13
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	A guy I worked with in Alaska had a shotgun similar to that but the barrel was cut to 1/4" over legal. The butt stock was cut off and re-shaped as a pistol grip. He told me he carried it for bears. But I knew him a couple years and he not only never hunted but seldom wandered far from home either. But he loved that gun! I'm thinking it was a Mossberg 500 he'd cut down! Using it for home defense would work pretty well!

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