Recoil

hunter06 · November 4, 2007, 12:35 PM

Im looking to buy my son a new rifle for deer hunting this year. He says my 270 is a bit tough on his shoulder. I feel the 243 is not enough power for him because he might be hunting black bear too. I was thinking more in terms of the 7mm-08 or the 25-06. How are the recoil of these compared to the 270? Which do you think is a better choice? I do not handload so i will only be using factory bullets. Any results on game with these rifles and good ammunition as well?

Hawg · November 4, 2007, 12:40 PM

7mm-08 or .308 ought to be good or you could install a Mercury recoil reducer. It tames a 450 Marlin in a NEF Handi Rifle down to about 12 gauge levels.

Kreyzhorse · November 4, 2007, 12:44 PM

In my opinion, the .308 is the best choice. Close to 30.06 power with less recoil. Plenty of ammo choices and I'm guessing just about any ammo dealer in the US has at least a box in stock.

castnblast · November 4, 2007, 03:57 PM

25-06 great choice. Killed many deer and hogs w/ it. Hogs can get as heavy as bear. If you choose that cal, go w/ a 117btsp. Great round. very accurate. A 243 w/ a 100gr. should do fine on black bear. Just be careful on the bullet selection that you don't select a varnmint bullet. 7mm-08 is good too...I'd suggest a 139 BTSP. That's a 308 necked down to 7mm. the 243 is (to my understanding...may be wrong) the 308 necked down to 24 cal. Main thing is to avoid recoil that will cause him to flinch. That can cause some really bad habits that are not easily corrected.

ZeroJunk · November 4, 2007, 05:25 PM

There is only about 100 FPS difference between a 7 MM-08 and a 270 for similar weight bullets. I don't think the difference in recoil would amount to much.The 25-06 is not going to be a quantum jump in recoil reduction either.I would think he should drop to a 243 or learn to shoot the 270.

dead-eye-ked · November 4, 2007, 05:46 PM

Want to adopt? lol

How old is your son? Remember he will prob. grow into it also, so a little big is not a bad thing. I like the .270 myself and think in the future he will appreciate it also. It you get him a simi-auto rather than a bolt it will take up a lot of recoil too.

Take a look at the browning.

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...31&type_id=328

fisherman66 · November 4, 2007, 06:29 PM

How about splitting the difference? The 260 is a fine round.

steve c · November 4, 2007, 06:48 PM

here are some recoil energy numbers I found off a chart. 243, 100gr 8.8lbs. 25-06,120gr 12.5lbs. 270, 130gr 16.5lbs. 308, 150gr 15.8lbs. 30-30, 150gr 10.6lbs. Just for kicks, 300 mag, 180gr 25.9lbs. They also have recoil velocity listed which I assume it is how sharp the kick is but this should give you an idea on recoil. These were all factory loads.

tyrajam · November 4, 2007, 07:54 PM

6.5x55!!! This gun kicks the same as a 243 but handles 140gr bullets that make short work of any contanental game. I have a 44mag semi auto rifle that kicks less than a 243. And the old 30-30 is not glamorous anymore, but millions of dead deer and bears would say its adequate.

FirstFreedom · November 4, 2007, 09:30 PM

In that situation, I'd run with 6.5x55 swede, .25-06, or .260 remington, or maybe .257 roberts. I'm partial to 6.5x55 swede, in theory, although it's hard to find sporting rifles in this caliber. It kicks a bit more than a .243, but it kills large game very well, by all accounts. I have yet to kill an animal with a 6.5x55 though personally.

Jack O'Conner · November 12, 2007, 01:33 PM

My wife hunts with a custom Browning BLR in 6.5mm Swede. She is a lefty.

The Nosler 140 gr Partition will out-penetrate just about anything including 220 gr 30-06. We tested using soaked newspaper shot from a distance of 100 yards.

.308 reduced recoil ammo by Remington is worth a close look.

7mm-08 is a fine cartridge but price per box seems outrageous to me.

Jack

Doyle · November 12, 2007, 03:25 PM

Remington's Reduced Recoil ammo in .270 uses a 125 grn bullet and produces about the same recoil as a .243. If you want to keep the gun, try this.

kyrifleman0714 · November 13, 2007, 01:06 AM

how old or big is he? I mean is he 10 years old or 15 years old? I'm 19, I can barely bench press 100 pounds 1 time, i'm not in shape, i'm 6"2 and weigh at anytime inbetween 160-170 pounds, and I don't have my own rifle but I shoot my uncle's Rem 700 in .30-06, 180gr core-lokt, and personally i don't feel the gun recoil at all, if you gave me a 100gr .243 and 180gr .30-06 I wouldn't know the difference, god's honest truth. It's possibly he is holding the gun incorrectly, you need to teach him to relax his shoulder, and take his two arms and pull the rifle into his body firmly, also I'm guessing alot of this is mental, he is scared of the gun and also probably associates the sound of the gun with the recoil. I don't notice recoil until I shoot a 150gr .300 win mag, but even them i'm not flinching or wincing or whatever, you just need to tell him the gun is not going to hurt him when it goes off. My first rifle i'm getting is going to be a Remington 700 CDL in 7mm Rem Mag shooting 150gr

**JohnKSa** · November 13, 2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

The 260 is a fine round.

Hey, that's what I was gonna say.

This round essentially duplicates the performance of the 6.5x55 Swede, so you got a lot of recommends for this performance class.

Low recoil, surprisingly good game performance** and generally very accurate.

**Used to hang out in a shop that specialized in semi-custom rifles. The owner always hunted with the latest whiz-bang magnum cartridge on the market. His son wanted something with less recoil so he built him a .260Remington. I remember him shaking his head and saying that he didn't understand how his son's .260 just seemed to drop those deer in their tracks while they always ran awhile after he whacked them with his magnum.

If you do much reading about the 6.5x55, you'll read similar stories about it. It just seems to perform better than it should on game judging from the on paper figures.

Scorch · November 13, 2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

It just seems to perform better than it should on game judging from the on paper figures.

You can say that about a lot of the old cartridges: 7X57, 6.5X55, 6.5X54, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 300 Savage, and yes, even the lowly 30-30 Winchester, are all very good at dropping game very cleanly without beating you up in the process. The only real gain with magnums is a flatter trajectory that makes range estimation non-critical.

polarnewfie · November 14, 2007, 03:08 AM

the 260 is in my opinion also a good round, so is the 6.5x55 which I used last fall to take a 275 pound black bear. The shot didnt kill him instantly but made him squeal and bolt for the woods. I let him be for about 10 minutes and found him 30 yards away leaning against a tree almost sitting up with his arms around the tree, QUITE DEAD!!!
With hunting bruins, I always usually use heavy bullets in my .300 win mag
but didnt have the choice of firearms or ammo when hunting that time. The only animal I have shot with such a calibre. Shot placement is paramount.
As with any "undersized" caliber such a 6mm -7mm range, use heavy for class bullets and make sure the caliber you decide on has readily available bullets at the stores in your area before purchasing. Some areas stock more of some calibers than others, so dont get stuck with a gun that is hard to find bullets for or the bullet selection in your area is poor. Try to use premium loads for large or semi-dangerous game like bear or moose.
And make sure your son is holding the weapon right, and that the particular rifle fits his stature. If it is awkward to hold it will be scary and awkward to shoot.

jbirdhaffield · November 18, 2007, 11:33 AM

I hope I'm not too late in returning some advice before you went out and bought the gun. Let me just give you some food for thought.

The gentleman that stated the .308 would be good for your son, I think he wansn't on the right track, the recoil as mentioned from your son was too much in the .270. The 308 has just as much recoil as the .270 if not more depending on the load.

I am a huge 7mm-08 fan and think that it is a great caliber for all hunters that are hunting game in North America. If you read different statistics and studies you will run accross several articles that show how the 7mm-08 outperforms alot of the above mentioned calibers (308 ect...)

If you purchase a bolt rifle it should average around 7.5 lbs in the 7mm-08. It will have 10 lbs of recoil which is just above the .243 at 8.8 lbs. However, the difference on impact is hands down uncomparable. The .243 may be a bit faster, but that 200 fps doesn't compare to the devistation at the end vs the 7mm-08.

USNairman · November 21, 2007, 08:16 AM

You should buy some of the managed recoil ammo and have him try shooting the 270 with them. It greatly reduces the recoil. If he likes shooting the managed recoil then you could buy him a 270 and he could grow into shooting full loads.

samsmix · November 26, 2007, 07:54 PM

I'm chiming in a bit late here, but how about a .257 Roberts with 120gr Nosler Partition as loaded by Federal? I grew up on it, my wife loves it, and my 11 year old daughter even shoots it!

A more affordable ammo option is Richard Brown of Shepherd, MT. Look him up at Dexonline or E-mail him at : [email protected] He can load to your specs at a reasonable price.

almtiba · November 27, 2007, 01:08 PM

Not applyable to extreme hard kickers, but in the real world and especially with the .270, I think recoil is a issue when you're at the range. In a real hunt, the adrenaline in your body makes the recoil much less perceptive.

That said, if .270 is your caliber of choice, try to fix a pachmyer decelarator recoil pad in your rifle and chose some light loads for him to practice and, by the time your son is growing up, you can only switch gradualy to the stronger loads.

That's only me, but I think that shooting the same rifle his father shoots, will not only be a good lesson, but would be a good feeling for the boy.

Regards,

Andre Tiba - Brazil

king.460 · November 28, 2007, 04:35 AM

My experience with this caliber is with a TC Encore 15" handgun, which I selected because the recoil was noticeably less than the .308. I have, in particular, one very large whitetail hanging on my wall that ran only 30 yards after the 7mm.08 did it's deed. Plenty of knockdown, very little recoil. It's what I will be purchasing for my daughter next.

FirstFreedom · November 28, 2007, 08:54 AM

But to address the original question a little better, IMO a .243 with a heavy controlled-expansion bullet (store bought ammo) in the 95-105 grain range, would be enough for black bear...but take advice with caution, as I've never hunted bear - just going by what I've read. And the recoil of the .243 would be *significantly* less than a .270.

WeedWacker · November 28, 2007, 08:03 PM

Did anyone mention .30-30 yet? Didn't see while skimming. The .30-30 will kill deer out to 300 yards but most shots will not be that far. If zeroed at 200 yds it will be a few inches high at 100 and be just below at 225. My dad shot a doe at 220 in the chest. through and through, dropped her like a stone.

Greatest Hunter · November 30, 2007, 10:31 AM

In my opinion the best caliber for you would be the 7x57 (7mm Mauser). Its a great caliber that for some reason americans don't like. I shot my very first trophy with and old military mauser rifle in this caliber when I was 7 and have since used it a lot in Africa and South America. I love this caliber. A very good bullet would be Federal 140 gr. Nosler.

November 4, 2007, 12:35 PM	#1
hunter06 Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 3	Recoil Im looking to buy my son a new rifle for deer hunting this year. He says my 270 is a bit tough on his shoulder. I feel the 243 is not enough power for him because he might be hunting black bear too. I was thinking more in terms of the 7mm-08 or the 25-06. How are the recoil of these compared to the 270? Which do you think is a better choice? I do not handload so i will only be using factory bullets. Any results on game with these rifles and good ammunition as well?

November 4, 2007, 12:44 PM	#3
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	In my opinion, the .308 is the best choice. Close to 30.06 power with less recoil. Plenty of ammo choices and I'm guessing just about any ammo dealer in the US has at least a box in stock. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

November 4, 2007, 03:57 PM	#4
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	25-06 great choice. Killed many deer and hogs w/ it. Hogs can get as heavy as bear. If you choose that cal, go w/ a 117btsp. Great round. very accurate. A 243 w/ a 100gr. should do fine on black bear. Just be careful on the bullet selection that you don't select a varnmint bullet. 7mm-08 is good too...I'd suggest a 139 BTSP. That's a 308 necked down to 7mm. the 243 is (to my understanding...may be wrong) the 308 necked down to 24 cal. Main thing is to avoid recoil that will cause him to flinch. That can cause some really bad habits that are not easily corrected. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

November 4, 2007, 05:46 PM	#6
dead-eye-ked Member Join Date: August 22, 2006 Posts: 72	Rifle for your son! Want to adopt? lol How old is your son? Remember he will prob. grow into it also, so a little big is not a bad thing. I like the .270 myself and think in the future he will appreciate it also. It you get him a simi-auto rather than a bolt it will take up a lot of recoil too. Take a look at the browning. http://www.browning.com/products/cat...31&type_id=328

November 4, 2007, 06:29 PM	#7
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,679	How about splitting the difference? The 260 is a fine round. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

November 4, 2007, 12:40 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	7mm-08 or .308 ought to be good or you could install a Mercury recoil reducer. It tames a 450 Marlin in a NEF Handi Rifle down to about 12 gauge levels.

November 4, 2007, 05:25 PM	#5
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	There is only about 100 FPS difference between a 7 MM-08 and a 270 for similar weight bullets. I don't think the difference in recoil would amount to much.The 25-06 is not going to be a quantum jump in recoil reduction either.I would think he should drop to a 243 or learn to shoot the 270.

November 4, 2007, 06:48 PM	#8
steve c Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2005 Location: wi Posts: 13	here are some recoil energy numbers I found off a chart. 243, 100gr 8.8lbs. 25-06,120gr 12.5lbs. 270, 130gr 16.5lbs. 308, 150gr 15.8lbs. 30-30, 150gr 10.6lbs. Just for kicks, 300 mag, 180gr 25.9lbs. They also have recoil velocity listed which I assume it is how sharp the kick is but this should give you an idea on recoil. These were all factory loads.

November 4, 2007, 07:54 PM	#9
tyrajam Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 467	6.5x55!!! This gun kicks the same as a 243 but handles 140gr bullets that make short work of any contanental game. I have a 44mag semi auto rifle that kicks less than a 243. And the old 30-30 is not glamorous anymore, but millions of dead deer and bears would say its adequate.

November 4, 2007, 09:30 PM	#10
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	In that situation, I'd run with 6.5x55 swede, .25-06, or .260 remington, or maybe .257 roberts. I'm partial to 6.5x55 swede, in theory, although it's hard to find sporting rifles in this caliber. It kicks a bit more than a .243, but it kills large game very well, by all accounts. I have yet to kill an animal with a 6.5x55 though personally.

November 12, 2007, 01:33 PM	#11
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	My wife hunts with a custom Browning BLR in 6.5mm Swede. She is a lefty. The Nosler 140 gr Partition will out-penetrate just about anything including 220 gr 30-06. We tested using soaked newspaper shot from a distance of 100 yards. .308 reduced recoil ammo by Remington is worth a close look. 7mm-08 is a fine cartridge but price per box seems outrageous to me. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

November 12, 2007, 03:25 PM	#12
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Remington's Reduced Recoil ammo in .270 uses a 125 grn bullet and produces about the same recoil as a .243. If you want to keep the gun, try this.

November 13, 2007, 01:06 AM	#13
kyrifleman0714 Junior member Join Date: November 13, 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 36	how old or big is he? I mean is he 10 years old or 15 years old? I'm 19, I can barely bench press 100 pounds 1 time, i'm not in shape, i'm 6"2 and weigh at anytime inbetween 160-170 pounds, and I don't have my own rifle but I shoot my uncle's Rem 700 in .30-06, 180gr core-lokt, and personally i don't feel the gun recoil at all, if you gave me a 100gr .243 and 180gr .30-06 I wouldn't know the difference, god's honest truth. It's possibly he is holding the gun incorrectly, you need to teach him to relax his shoulder, and take his two arms and pull the rifle into his body firmly, also I'm guessing alot of this is mental, he is scared of the gun and also probably associates the sound of the gun with the recoil. I don't notice recoil until I shoot a 150gr .300 win mag, but even them i'm not flinching or wincing or whatever, you just need to tell him the gun is not going to hurt him when it goes off. My first rifle i'm getting is going to be a Remington 700 CDL in 7mm Rem Mag shooting 150gr

November 14, 2007, 03:08 AM	#16
polarnewfie Junior Member Join Date: November 9, 2007 Location: Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada Posts: 13	the 260 is in my opinion also a good round, so is the 6.5x55 which I used last fall to take a 275 pound black bear. The shot didnt kill him instantly but made him squeal and bolt for the woods. I let him be for about 10 minutes and found him 30 yards away leaning against a tree almost sitting up with his arms around the tree, QUITE DEAD!!! With hunting bruins, I always usually use heavy bullets in my .300 win mag but didnt have the choice of firearms or ammo when hunting that time. The only animal I have shot with such a calibre. Shot placement is paramount. As with any "undersized" caliber such a 6mm -7mm range, use heavy for class bullets and make sure the caliber you decide on has readily available bullets at the stores in your area before purchasing. Some areas stock more of some calibers than others, so dont get stuck with a gun that is hard to find bullets for or the bullet selection in your area is poor. Try to use premium loads for large or semi-dangerous game like bear or moose. And make sure your son is holding the weapon right, and that the particular rifle fits his stature. If it is awkward to hold it will be scary and awkward to shoot.

November 18, 2007, 11:33 AM	#17
jbirdhaffield Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Location: South FL. Posts: 113	7mm-08 I hope I'm not too late in returning some advice before you went out and bought the gun. Let me just give you some food for thought. The gentleman that stated the .308 would be good for your son, I think he wansn't on the right track, the recoil as mentioned from your son was too much in the .270. The 308 has just as much recoil as the .270 if not more depending on the load. I am a huge 7mm-08 fan and think that it is a great caliber for all hunters that are hunting game in North America. If you read different statistics and studies you will run accross several articles that show how the 7mm-08 outperforms alot of the above mentioned calibers (308 ect...) If you purchase a bolt rifle it should average around 7.5 lbs in the 7mm-08. It will have 10 lbs of recoil which is just above the .243 at 8.8 lbs. However, the difference on impact is hands down uncomparable. The .243 may be a bit faster, but that 200 fps doesn't compare to the devistation at the end vs the 7mm-08.

November 21, 2007, 08:16 AM	#18
USNairman Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2006 Posts: 421	You should buy some of the managed recoil ammo and have him try shooting the 270 with them. It greatly reduces the recoil. If he likes shooting the managed recoil then you could buy him a 270 and he could grow into shooting full loads.

November 26, 2007, 07:54 PM	#19
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	I'm chiming in a bit late here, but how about a .257 Roberts with 120gr Nosler Partition as loaded by Federal? I grew up on it, my wife loves it, and my 11 year old daughter even shoots it! A more affordable ammo option is Richard Brown of Shepherd, MT. Look him up at Dexonline or E-mail him at : [email protected] He can load to your specs at a reasonable price. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

November 27, 2007, 01:08 PM	#20
almtiba Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2004 Location: Sao Paulo / Brazil Posts: 190	Not applyable to extreme hard kickers, but in the real world and especially with the .270, I think recoil is a issue when you're at the range. In a real hunt, the adrenaline in your body makes the recoil much less perceptive. That said, if .270 is your caliber of choice, try to fix a pachmyer decelarator recoil pad in your rifle and chose some light loads for him to practice and, by the time your son is growing up, you can only switch gradualy to the stronger loads. That's only me, but I think that shooting the same rifle his father shoots, will not only be a good lesson, but would be a good feeling for the boy. Regards, Andre Tiba - Brazil

November 28, 2007, 04:35 AM	#21
king.460 Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2007 Location: Hale County, AL Posts: 103	My vote is 7mm.08 My experience with this caliber is with a TC Encore 15" handgun, which I selected because the recoil was noticeably less than the .308. I have, in particular, one very large whitetail hanging on my wall that ran only 30 yards after the 7mm.08 did it's deed. Plenty of knockdown, very little recoil. It's what I will be purchasing for my daughter next.

November 28, 2007, 08:54 AM	#22
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	But to address the original question a little better, IMO a .243 with a heavy controlled-expansion bullet (store bought ammo) in the 95-105 grain range, would be enough for black bear...but take advice with caution, as I've never hunted bear - just going by what I've read. And the recoil of the .243 would be significantly less than a .270.

November 28, 2007, 08:03 PM	#23
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	Did anyone mention .30-30 yet? Didn't see while skimming. The .30-30 will kill deer out to 300 yards but most shots will not be that far. If zeroed at 200 yds it will be a few inches high at 100 and be just below at 225. My dad shot a doe at 220 in the chest. through and through, dropped her like a stone. __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

November 30, 2007, 10:31 AM	#24
Greatest Hunter Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2007 Location: The World Posts: 10	In my opinion the best caliber for you would be the 7x57 (7mm Mauser). Its a great caliber that for some reason americans don't like. I shot my very first trophy with and old military mauser rifle in this caliber when I was 7 and have since used it a lot in Africa and South America. I love this caliber. A very good bullet would be Federal 140 gr. Nosler.