Car safe - Page 2

Jazzgun · June 5, 2018, 04:00 AM

FITASC

Quote:

Do not overthink and over complicate things

I waited a few days to respond to this because it "annoyed" me when I read it. Simply the 'implication' that one should not think about being extremely careful with a loaded gun in the car with children and insinuating one is "complicating things" by advising another to take extreme care is not only highly insulting but it is flat out ignorant. You need to go back and take some more safety training. IMHO

labnoti · June 12, 2018, 12:16 PM

Look at the Fort Knox boxes with the KABA simplex locks.

A handgun safe is almost ALL about the lock. Otherwise, it's just a box like a cooler. Most coolers (apart from a locking feature) are secure enough to keep kids with a casual interest from breaking it open, but a determined person with tools will get it open within a few seconds to a few minutes. How the lock works, on the other hand, determines how you will get into it.

There are:

electronic locks with keypads
electronic biometric locks (fingerprint readers)
electronic RFID (card or keyfob) locks
mechanical combination dials
mechanical push-button simplex locks
key locks

Some of the electronic locks that allow you to use a keyfob or fingerprint to open the safe are good in concept, but to compete with cheaper alternatives in a market where people would rather spend on acquiring another gun, and among competition that tends to have a short lifespan in the market, the quality and dependability of the electronic locks featured on most products is at risk of coming up short.

Combination dials are slow to access.

With key locks, you must have the key to access and keep it secure.

Mechanical simplex locks are fast to access and proven dependable for many decades. By "fast to access" I mean convenient. They aren't holsters. They are more expensive. The KABA locks by themselves (not a complete security box) retail for about $60. In my opinion, they are well worth the cost of more expensive security boxes that have been built using them. I would use them for in the house (ie. nightstand) and for a firearm regularly stored in a vehicle.

The lower cost alternatives are key lock boxes. This is what I actually use because I regularly store the firearm on my person, which has been recommended by several other people. The cheap key lock box is for when I go places like the post office (mine has a non-government property parking lot or else I park on the street), courthouse, school, or across a stateline where my concealment permit is not valid. A simplex lock box would be better on all accounts, but buying them for multiple vehicles would be costly and the overwhelming majority of the time the firearm is properly secured on my person where it can be of the most use.

I do think there is a practicality in regularly storing a shotgun and carbine in the vehicle. For that, there are long security boxes or racks that secure the gun and conceal only the receiver.

There may also be a purpose to a vehicle-mounted holster that keeps the gun readily accessible for fast access (in case of a car-jacking for example). People could holster handguns in the door pockets, on the steering column, between the seat and center console, etc. Unsecured guns in those positions should be attended at all times. If you're not going to attend them and are exiting the car, I advise to secure them first (in a security box) or take them with you.

FITASC · June 12, 2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

I waited a few days to respond to this because it "annoyed" me when I read it. Simply the 'implication' that one should not think about being extremely careful with a loaded gun in the car with children and insinuating one is "complicating things" by advising another to take extreme care is not only highly insulting but it is flat out ignorant. You need to go back and take some more safety training. IMHO

He also said his wife was there - or at least I read it that way, so she should be able to keep the kids strapped in their car seats long enough for him to go to the USPS quickly for a moment.

Jazzgun · June 13, 2018, 12:02 AM

Quote:

He also said his wife was there - or at least I read it that way, so she should be able to keep the kids strapped in their car seats long enough for him to go to the USPS quickly for a moment.

Yes, but he also said his wife was nervous. Remember?

Jazzgun · June 13, 2018, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLCane

I am not asking about whether they are a good idea or not, but rather, which one seems to work best. I have a sig p938. I drive a sedan. I have 2 young daughters, a very nervous wife a desire to have easy access to my firearm in my car.

What do you guys think?

Hi again KL. I've read a lot of replies and seen where you have agreed at times, at least once. However, I have a couple of questions for you. First off, did you mean to say your wife is nervous about having a gun in the car (or house for that matter) or did you mean she is nervous about being safe and this is why you want a gun. Or do you want a gun to protect your family and she is objecting because she is nervous?

The other question I have is how old are your daughters? Are they old enough to be taught about guns so that they won't be overly curious? Or are they in that pre-school age where they are curious about any and everything?

I remember being taught about guns at a VERY young age. Around six. Seriously I think it was even earlier. I was always around guns, we always had them in the house. Not like lying around on the table or anything like that but we had gun display cases that weren't locked. We lived on a small farm in the country and kept a shotgun leaning near the front door, which was never locked. lol

Yeah, I know ..... times have really changed haven't they? Here is something for you to think about as you make the decision how to carry your gun safely in your car. Educate your young daughters about guns. All the safety in the world that you practice at home cannot keep them safe at a friend or relatives house if they don't have their firearms where curious little hands can get to them.

As for your wife. I think that taking her to the range with you is a great idea. Get her a pocket gun or even a snub nosed revolver. Something she will like. And if the girls are old enough, take them to the range with you too.

The family can have a lot of fun learning how to be safe together.

Good luck!

kozak6 · June 13, 2018, 06:02 AM

Those cable secured safes make me nervous. A lot of the creeps around here carry tools.

wild cat mccane · June 13, 2018, 07:21 AM

You know, it's not just on the wife to "learn" about guns.

Accidents and suicides are devastating my gun friendly state of Utah. We have toddler deaths frequently from >5 yr old finding dads gun. Just happened.

Take it seriously, like it sounds you are. A safe is a great idea.

It seems there is a sizable group of gun owners that only acknowledge the personal financial loss of a stolen gun out of a car, but when I had a gun stolen from my broken in car, I didn't help gun rights advance. That was on me. Considering the consequences of stealing a gun, I can be assured I hurt my community in general and possible ruined other peoples' families that had nothing to do with me locking a gun up in a breakable glove box.

We don't live in the lawless science fiction bad lands--lock it up.

Think on it from your parent end. Do you want guns in cars that any idiot can easily steal? Um no.

HiBC · June 13, 2018, 08:10 AM

I'll agree that the best place is holstered on the person.

But its just a fact there are times ,such as entering a school or post office,that its not OK to carry.
Its good to have a secure storage option in the vehicle.
That's a STORAGE option.,not a carry option.If you have time to unlock the box in a crisis,,you have time to leave and call 911..

The vehicle attached holster...may have potential,depending on circumstance.
Not all folks can carry appendix,and many holsters are not accessible when belted in a seat.Folks do have ND's unholstering or reholstering 3 or 4 oclock concealed carry while in a car.IMO,it should be a retention holster.

As far as the hazards of any holstering/unholstering...I guess you have to know your own limitations.If you feel you might muzzle sweep people,Thats your call and something to think about.

If the gun is in a door pocket,it still needs a holster.A pencil or tire gauge can enter the trigger guard.
I forget all the details,but in the famous FBI/bank robber shootout,an issue was the FBI guns were on the seat.Whether it was vigorous braking or collision,I don't remember,but the guns went flying to the floor.That wasa factor in the debacle.

Have a wreck or a rollover,you don't wasn't 2 1/2 pounds of cocked and locked flying around the vehicle.

IMO,it IS absolutely unacceptable to have an accessible firearm in a car with kids unattended.However,IMO,its absolutely unacceptable to have unattended kids in a car,period. Even to just run in to 7-11.

In summary,should a lockbox be "Plan A" for being armed? Not IMO. Its as easy to drive away from trouble.Ideally,both you and your wife are trained,armed,and practice.,and carry on your person.A team of two is far superior.

But is a lockbox a good plan for " I really need to temporarily disarm.What do I do with my gun?" IMO,its a very good accessory.

Jazzgun · June 14, 2018, 12:57 AM

HiBC

Quote:

IMO,it IS absolutely unacceptable to have an accessible firearm in a car with kids unattended.However,IMO,its absolutely unacceptable to have unattended kids in a car,period. Even to just run in to 7-11.

I completely and totally agree. In fact your entire post makes one hell of a lot of good sense. IMO

Cheapshooter · June 22, 2018, 10:34 AM

Quote:

I leave my gun in the door map pocket; is invisible not only form the outside as well as the passenger seat and is readily available.

Quote:

Not in my neighborhood; this is a retirement area of old folks

So you never leave your neighborhood with a gun in your car? Theives never go to "safe" retirement areas to steal from those they consider wealthy targets?
Car smash and grab theirs often don't even look in the vehicle now. Time is of the essence to them so they just go down a row of Parker cars taking whatever they find. Your vehicle would be a lot of good for them.
At a minimum a lock box cables to a seat frame should be used to at least make it take too much time so they move to the next target.
In 2018 no neighborhood is truly safe. If there were, you wouldn't need to carry a gun.

rc · July 3, 2018, 07:15 PM

Go to amazon. Do a search for Vehicle lock box. In addition to under a seat, you can also mount it in the top of the trunk below the rear window. Just some thoughts. rc

Cheapshooter · July 5, 2018, 12:42 AM

For forth generation Ram owners.
When this thread started I mentioned the Hornady Triple Lock. At that time my truck had a bench seat with under seat storage. The box works fine, and the cable was completely hidden. Since then, and a bit unexpectedly, I have gotten a new truck. 2018 Ram with front bucket seats, and full console. The lower console box is big enough for the Hornady box, but the cable is quite visible, and to me unsightly. I don't want to use it under the seat so I looked into the Console Vault, Locked Down, and Tuffy vaults that fit in the lower storage compartment of the console like something out of the factory. My question, and concern is that they mount inside the storage area with only self tapping screws into the plastic liner of the console. They all claim that there is no way that they can be just pulled loose from the plastic. Just not sure of the security of a $300 vault mounted with screws into plastic. Secondly, and I may get my answer tomorrow by removing some Torx head screws. But before I take apart something I might regret in my brand new truck, there are four Torx head screws inside the console box that would be above the vault. Are these holding the liner of the compartment to with you attach the vault, in the console? Would hate to think that by removing four screws a thief could just walk away with a $300 safe, and my gun.

June 12, 2018, 12:16 PM	#27
labnoti Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2018 Posts: 252	Look at the Fort Knox boxes with the KABA simplex locks. A handgun safe is almost ALL about the lock. Otherwise, it's just a box like a cooler. Most coolers (apart from a locking feature) are secure enough to keep kids with a casual interest from breaking it open, but a determined person with tools will get it open within a few seconds to a few minutes. How the lock works, on the other hand, determines how you will get into it. There are: electronic locks with keypads electronic biometric locks (fingerprint readers) electronic RFID (card or keyfob) locks mechanical combination dials mechanical push-button simplex locks key locks Some of the electronic locks that allow you to use a keyfob or fingerprint to open the safe are good in concept, but to compete with cheaper alternatives in a market where people would rather spend on acquiring another gun, and among competition that tends to have a short lifespan in the market, the quality and dependability of the electronic locks featured on most products is at risk of coming up short. Combination dials are slow to access. With key locks, you must have the key to access and keep it secure. Mechanical simplex locks are fast to access and proven dependable for many decades. By "fast to access" I mean convenient. They aren't holsters. They are more expensive. The KABA locks by themselves (not a complete security box) retail for about $60. In my opinion, they are well worth the cost of more expensive security boxes that have been built using them. I would use them for in the house (ie. nightstand) and for a firearm regularly stored in a vehicle. The lower cost alternatives are key lock boxes. This is what I actually use because I regularly store the firearm on my person, which has been recommended by several other people. The cheap key lock box is for when I go places like the post office (mine has a non-government property parking lot or else I park on the street), courthouse, school, or across a stateline where my concealment permit is not valid. A simplex lock box would be better on all accounts, but buying them for multiple vehicles would be costly and the overwhelming majority of the time the firearm is properly secured on my person where it can be of the most use. I do think there is a practicality in regularly storing a shotgun and carbine in the vehicle. For that, there are long security boxes or racks that secure the gun and conceal only the receiver. There may also be a purpose to a vehicle-mounted holster that keeps the gun readily accessible for fast access (in case of a car-jacking for example). People could holster handguns in the door pockets, on the steering column, between the seat and center console, etc. Unsecured guns in those positions should be attended at all times. If you're not going to attend them and are exiting the car, I advise to secure them first (in a security box) or take them with you. Last edited by labnoti; June 12, 2018 at 12:32 PM.

June 13, 2018, 08:10 AM	#33
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I'll agree that the best place is holstered on the person. But its just a fact there are times ,such as entering a school or post office,that its not OK to carry. Its good to have a secure storage option in the vehicle. That's a STORAGE option.,not a carry option.If you have time to unlock the box in a crisis,,you have time to leave and call 911.. The vehicle attached holster...may have potential,depending on circumstance. Not all folks can carry appendix,and many holsters are not accessible when belted in a seat.Folks do have ND's unholstering or reholstering 3 or 4 oclock concealed carry while in a car.IMO,it should be a retention holster. As far as the hazards of any holstering/unholstering...I guess you have to know your own limitations.If you feel you might muzzle sweep people,Thats your call and something to think about. If the gun is in a door pocket,it still needs a holster.A pencil or tire gauge can enter the trigger guard. I forget all the details,but in the famous FBI/bank robber shootout,an issue was the FBI guns were on the seat.Whether it was vigorous braking or collision,I don't remember,but the guns went flying to the floor.That wasa factor in the debacle. Have a wreck or a rollover,you don't wasn't 2 1/2 pounds of cocked and locked flying around the vehicle. IMO,it IS absolutely unacceptable to have an accessible firearm in a car with kids unattended.However,IMO,its absolutely unacceptable to have unattended kids in a car,period. Even to just run in to 7-11. In summary,should a lockbox be "Plan A" for being armed? Not IMO. Its as easy to drive away from trouble.Ideally,both you and your wife are trained,armed,and practice.,and carry on your person.A team of two is far superior. But is a lockbox a good plan for " I really need to temporarily disarm.What do I do with my gun?" IMO,its a very good accessory. Last edited by HiBC; June 13, 2018 at 08:18 AM.

July 3, 2018, 07:15 PM	#36
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,759	thought about it Go to amazon. Do a search for Vehicle lock box. In addition to under a seat, you can also mount it in the top of the trunk below the rear window. Just some thoughts. rc

July 5, 2018, 12:42 AM	#37
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	For forth generation Ram owners. When this thread started I mentioned the Hornady Triple Lock. At that time my truck had a bench seat with under seat storage. The box works fine, and the cable was completely hidden. Since then, and a bit unexpectedly, I have gotten a new truck. 2018 Ram with front bucket seats, and full console. The lower console box is big enough for the Hornady box, but the cable is quite visible, and to me unsightly. I don't want to use it under the seat so I looked into the Console Vault, Locked Down, and Tuffy vaults that fit in the lower storage compartment of the console like something out of the factory. My question, and concern is that they mount inside the storage area with only self tapping screws into the plastic liner of the console. They all claim that there is no way that they can be just pulled loose from the plastic. Just not sure of the security of a $300 vault mounted with screws into plastic. Secondly, and I may get my answer tomorrow by removing some Torx head screws. But before I take apart something I might regret in my brand new truck, there are four Torx head screws inside the console box that would be above the vault. Are these holding the liner of the compartment to with you attach the vault, in the console? Would hate to think that by removing four screws a thief could just walk away with a $300 safe, and my gun. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

June 13, 2018, 06:02 AM	#31
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Those cable secured safes make me nervous. A lot of the creeps around here carry tools.

June 13, 2018, 07:21 AM	#32
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,620	You know, it's not just on the wife to "learn" about guns. Accidents and suicides are devastating my gun friendly state of Utah. We have toddler deaths frequently from >5 yr old finding dads gun. Just happened. Take it seriously, like it sounds you are. A safe is a great idea. It seems there is a sizable group of gun owners that only acknowledge the personal financial loss of a stolen gun out of a car, but when I had a gun stolen from my broken in car, I didn't help gun rights advance. That was on me. Considering the consequences of stealing a gun, I can be assured I hurt my community in general and possible ruined other peoples' families that had nothing to do with me locking a gun up in a breakable glove box. We don't live in the lawless science fiction bad lands--lock it up. Think on it from your parent end. Do you want guns in cars that any idiot can easily steal? Um no.