Hellfire vs. full auto

Doug.38PR · November 8, 2005, 06:36 PM

Considering all this talk about Muslim riots in Europe and if it happened here and considering how difficult it is to own a fully automatic weapon here (I understand you need a "special" permit to own one issued by the "almighty" U.S. Government which costs about $3000 and the cost of the weapon itself is even more) I was wondering how fast hellfires speed things up compared to fully automatic weapons. Say I put a hellfire on my M-1 carbine or go buy a semi auto Thompson and put a hellfire on it, how would it compare to the full auto?

Those could be quite useful in "hosing" down rioters

SW40F · November 8, 2005, 07:11 PM

Aimed semi-automatic rifle fire will beat 'hosing' at a medium to long range.

It will also conserve ammo, doling it out when you decide, and allowing you to keep count and execute a tactical reload if time permits.

Full-auto is for Vietnam, and the movies.

[Flame suit on]

doubleaes2 · November 8, 2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

(I understand you need a "special" permit to own one issued by the "almighty" U.S. Government which costs about $3000 and the cost of the weapon itself is even more)

There is no "permit", there is a $200.00 tax that must be payed. And accurate semi auto fire is your best bet. Who wants to run out of ammo too fast?

+1 SW40F

shaggy · November 8, 2005, 07:30 PM

The Hellfire and similar devices are crap - don't waste your money. First, you have to hold the weapon very loosely so its no more accurate than hipshooting. Second, its a waste of ammo. I have quite a few registered full autos, but if the poop hits the fan, I'd be just as happy with a similar type semi (except for the GPMGs). Third, The Hellfire and similar devices don't do anything you can't do with your own index finger (ie. belt loop trick, bumpfiring).

cmreinke · November 8, 2005, 07:42 PM

Short of a heavy machine gun with a mile or two's worth of chain-fed rounds (and a buddy to help), a semiautomatic rifle will almost certainly serve you better than fully automatic one.

However, a pump shotgun with plenty of 00-buck shot is probably best. Hence the moniker "riot gun".

-Charles

smince · November 11, 2005, 09:35 AM

I've played around with the Tac-trigger/Hellfire/whatever-name-they-will-give-it-next-when-it-won't-sell-anymore. The ones I used were so soft metal that they will sometimes deform just trying to mount them on the trigger guard.

Luckily, I didn't pay for the POS.

Now I don't claim to know all the details of owning NFA weapons, but I wish I had a $ for everytime I've run across all the misinformation out there.

grey_pilgrim · November 11, 2005, 10:31 AM

I"m not so sure. I think a hellfire might be nice, although less so in a riot scenario. I think it beats full auto every time. A bit more expensive, though.

Northern Sod Breaker · November 11, 2005, 02:45 PM

depends on wether it's close or long range. and wethe ror not your enemies wearing armour. If your enemy is close range no armour as is typical. Just reach for a good pump gun and some buck shot.

smince · November 12, 2005, 07:09 AM

Doug38PR:

I just noticed you had posted this thread twice. Didn't you believe the other 9 people that told you the Hellfire was a POS?

Doug.38PR · November 12, 2005, 05:20 PM

it got posted twice accidentally I guess. The firingline website was apparently having problems loading and responding that night. Didn't look like it went through the first time so I waited about thirty minutes and tried to post the message again. I noticed yesterday that it was on here twice. I tried going to one of them and thought the messages looked different

than the past few days, it was then I noticed that both threads had gone through and hence had different people responding to each.

James K · November 12, 2005, 06:01 PM

Those fake full auto devices are crap. But anyone who thinks full auto fire is just spray and pray doesn't know anything about FA and probably has never used a FA weapon. The idea of FA fire is not to "hose down" people (except in very limited circumstances, like a human wave attack) but to increase the lethal effect by placing several shots in the target area. That is why uncontrollable FA fire (e.g., the M14 rifle) is worse than useless.

A little story: When I first got a TSMG, a friend and I set up five silhouette targets at about 50 feet. I proceded to play John Wayne with a 50 round drum and got one (1) hit on one (1) target. He whipped out an Auto Five and put a full load of 9 00 buck in each target in about 2 seconds. Taught me a lesson; I later learned to use a Thompson, but never forgot that putting nine rounds in each target with the TSMG would have taken a lot longer, and that the Browning would have been a lot more effective.

Jim

psycho nut · November 13, 2005, 04:20 PM

Is it one of the crank handle things that you attach to the trigger guard? Kinda like a Gatling Gun?

kozak6 · November 13, 2005, 04:21 PM

I think the Hellfire just "helps" you to bump-fire.

smince · November 13, 2005, 04:29 PM

Right. I think. I get all this crap confused. And I think the TAC-TRIGGER was suppossed to pull your trigger three times for everytime it was pulled.

November 8, 2005, 06:36 PM	#1
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Hellfire vs. full auto Considering all this talk about Muslim riots in Europe and if it happened here and considering how difficult it is to own a fully automatic weapon here (I understand you need a "special" permit to own one issued by the "almighty" U.S. Government which costs about $3000 and the cost of the weapon itself is even more) I was wondering how fast hellfires speed things up compared to fully automatic weapons. Say I put a hellfire on my M-1 carbine or go buy a semi auto Thompson and put a hellfire on it, how would it compare to the full auto? Those could be quite useful in "hosing" down rioters

November 8, 2005, 07:42 PM	#5
cmreinke Member Join Date: October 20, 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 77	Short of a heavy machine gun with a mile or two's worth of chain-fed rounds (and a buddy to help), a semiautomatic rifle will almost certainly serve you better than fully automatic one. However, a pump shotgun with plenty of 00-buck shot is probably best. Hence the moniker "riot gun". -Charles __________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. -Adam Savage of Discovery Channel's MythBusters

November 11, 2005, 10:31 AM	#7
grey_pilgrim Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2004 Location: mid-atlantic Posts: 352	I"m not so sure. I think a hellfire might be nice, although less so in a riot scenario. I think it beats full auto every time. A bit more expensive, though. __________________ Cheers, Dave

November 13, 2005, 04:20 PM	#12
psycho nut Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 480	What's a hellfire???? Is it one of the crank handle things that you attach to the trigger guard? Kinda like a Gatling Gun? __________________ I can't spel.

November 8, 2005, 07:11 PM	#2
SW40F Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2001 Location: Western MI Posts: 563	Aimed semi-automatic rifle fire will beat 'hosing' at a medium to long range. It will also conserve ammo, doling it out when you decide, and allowing you to keep count and execute a tactical reload if time permits. Full-auto is for Vietnam, and the movies. [Flame suit on]

November 8, 2005, 07:30 PM	#4
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	The Hellfire and similar devices are crap - don't waste your money. First, you have to hold the weapon very loosely so its no more accurate than hipshooting. Second, its a waste of ammo. I have quite a few registered full autos, but if the poop hits the fan, I'd be just as happy with a similar type semi (except for the GPMGs). Third, The Hellfire and similar devices don't do anything you can't do with your own index finger (ie. belt loop trick, bumpfiring).

November 11, 2005, 09:35 AM	#6
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	I've played around with the Tac-trigger/Hellfire/whatever-name-they-will-give-it-next-when-it-won't-sell-anymore. The ones I used were so soft metal that they will sometimes deform just trying to mount them on the trigger guard. Luckily, I didn't pay for the POS. Now I don't claim to know all the details of owning NFA weapons, but I wish I had a $ for everytime I've run across all the misinformation out there.

November 11, 2005, 02:45 PM	#8
Northern Sod Breaker Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Location: Hewitt, Minnesota Posts: 758	depends on wether it's close or long range. and wethe ror not your enemies wearing armour. If your enemy is close range no armour as is typical. Just reach for a good pump gun and some buck shot.

November 12, 2005, 07:09 AM	#9
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	Doug38PR: I just noticed you had posted this thread twice. Didn't you believe the other 9 people that told you the Hellfire was a POS?

November 12, 2005, 05:20 PM	#10
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	it got posted twice accidentally I guess. The firingline website was apparently having problems loading and responding that night. Didn't look like it went through the first time so I waited about thirty minutes and tried to post the message again. I noticed yesterday that it was on here twice. I tried going to one of them and thought the messages looked different than the past few days, it was then I noticed that both threads had gone through and hence had different people responding to each.

November 12, 2005, 06:01 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Those fake full auto devices are crap. But anyone who thinks full auto fire is just spray and pray doesn't know anything about FA and probably has never used a FA weapon. The idea of FA fire is not to "hose down" people (except in very limited circumstances, like a human wave attack) but to increase the lethal effect by placing several shots in the target area. That is why uncontrollable FA fire (e.g., the M14 rifle) is worse than useless. A little story: When I first got a TSMG, a friend and I set up five silhouette targets at about 50 feet. I proceded to play John Wayne with a 50 round drum and got one (1) hit on one (1) target. He whipped out an Auto Five and put a full load of 9 00 buck in each target in about 2 seconds. Taught me a lesson; I later learned to use a Thompson, but never forgot that putting nine rounds in each target with the TSMG would have taken a lot longer, and that the Browning would have been a lot more effective. Jim

November 13, 2005, 04:21 PM	#13
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I think the Hellfire just "helps" you to bump-fire.

November 13, 2005, 04:29 PM	#14
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	Right. I think. I get all this crap confused. And I think the TAC-TRIGGER was suppossed to pull your trigger three times for everytime it was pulled.