"Small" Pistol Primers in .45 ACP

renaissance7697 · June 29, 2005, 08:02 AM

I just read somewhere that Winchester is going to start using "SMALL Pistol Primers" in their .45 acp........

Bummer ....if this is true.

When reloading with Indoor range "pick up Brass"....(mine and others that get mixed in)....................How would we separate the "small" from the "large" primer socketed cases ??????

Can one "visually" tell one from the other; reliably ??

Would one have to "measure" (go-nogo gauge ??) ????

PITA !

Hope this does NOT come to past !

What do you all think ???

Russ5924 · June 29, 2005, 08:53 AM

As far as I know they are using the small pistol primers in there Non-toxic .45ACP.The bottom of the case should say NT I have been sorting and throwing them out just don't want them mixed in with the normal .45s

Edward429451 · June 29, 2005, 09:15 AM

You can tell the difference visually. It shouldn't even slow anyone down as brass is checked at every stage of the reloading process anyway. Just more rejects now or seperation if you want to save them.

tjhands · June 29, 2005, 09:35 AM

I loaded up about 800 rounds (!!!) of .45ACP last weekend and had 10 or 12 of the small primer kind in there. I kept them but didn't load them. They are easy to spot if you visually go through all your brass, otherwise you'll sort them as you prime them like I did.

rwilson452 · June 29, 2005, 09:55 PM

Are you sure they were 45acp? the 45GAP uses the small pistol primer.

tjhands · June 30, 2005, 09:21 AM

rwilson, oh definitely. They say "Winchester NT" on the headstamp. Same length brass and everything - they are .45ACP

auto45 · June 30, 2005, 12:03 PM

Winchester is a funny company.

They 'screwed around' with their very popular AA shotshell series and didn't make a lot of people happy for many reasons...except Remington and others.

So, small primers in ACP will probably just cut their sales down if the other manufacturers stay with the large primer...who will want the brass??

Their "big picture" must be very large.

renaissance7697 · June 30, 2005, 12:28 PM

I think the idea is to discourage reloading !

But then, I am a cynic

BigSlick · June 30, 2005, 05:10 PM

I see the 'Win NT' cases from time to time. I toss 'em.

Telling small primers from large is pretty simple, there is enough difference in size that they are easily distinguishable.

The rumor mill does indeed have it that around years end Winchester is going to small primers for all the 45 ACP offerings. From what I read (which is nofficial) the lower cost of small primers will provide a substantial manufacturing cost savings. It seems that in testing the 45 GAP, it was discovered a small primer was sufficient for all 45 ACP to ignite reliably.

I haven't shot any of the NT so I don't have a clue about chrono readings on the stuff.

I will continue to toss my small primer 45ACP in the junk bucket.

What we face here is either Win will be the only mfr to use small primers, in which case some people will avoid it. Those who don't reload won't care as long as they can save a buck. Or, all manufacturers will follow suit and large primer 45 ACP will eventually be a thing of the past.

It is well known that S&B has been subcontracted by Winchester to produce WWB recently. I would think this falls into line with the rumors of the primer change. Sub it out while you retool the mfg line to take small primers.

I guess the decision came down to raising the price a buck a million or go to cheaper components.

I can tell you one thing, if Winchester does make this change I have bought my last Winchester reloading component. No more primers, new brass, powder or hulls. New things are great in some respects, but with changes like these, how could you trust them with anything else.

I (for one) won't.

BigSlick

Paul B. · July 1, 2005, 12:46 PM

Well, before everybody goes and cuts their noses off tp spite their face.

I found about two dozen of the WIN NT brass, and was curious about them. Winchester says to not reload them as they could get mixed up with regular large primer cases and one could have an accident. Otherwise, they are apparently safe to reload.
What I did was load them up with small pistol primers and tried my pet target load of 5.0 gr. of W-231 and the SAECO 068 200 gr. cast bullet. I also loaded up an equal amount of ammo with standard large primer brass. At 25 yards, groups with the small primer brass were about a half inch smaller than the groups with the standard brass. Pistol was a Series 70 Colt Combat Commander with the teeny tiny sights Colt deemed proper. After I determined that they were safe to load, at least with the target grade loads I normally shoot, I loaded the series again and shot them in a Caspian framed gun with a Gold Cup upper and guts. Again, the small primered brass outshot the larger primes cases with the smallest groups.

Coincidence? Who knows? I can only report what I experiences. I'll admit though, that it is a royal PITA to keep them separate.
Paul B.

June 29, 2005, 08:02 AM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	"Small" Pistol Primers in .45 ACP I just read somewhere that Winchester is going to start using "SMALL Pistol Primers" in their .45 acp........ Bummer ....if this is true. When reloading with Indoor range "pick up Brass"....(mine and others that get mixed in)....................How would we separate the "small" from the "large" primer socketed cases ?????? Can one "visually" tell one from the other; reliably ?? Would one have to "measure" (go-nogo gauge ??) ???? PITA ! Hope this does NOT come to past ! What do you all think ??? __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

June 29, 2005, 08:53 AM	#2
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	As far as I know they are using the small pistol primers in there Non-toxic .45ACP.The bottom of the case should say NT I have been sorting and throwing them out just don't want them mixed in with the normal .45s __________________ Russ5924

June 29, 2005, 09:35 AM	#4
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	I loaded up about 800 rounds (!!!) of .45ACP last weekend and had 10 or 12 of the small primer kind in there. I kept them but didn't load them. They are easy to spot if you visually go through all your brass, otherwise you'll sort them as you prime them like I did. __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

June 29, 2005, 09:55 PM	#5
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	small primer? Are you sure they were 45acp? the 45GAP uses the small pistol primer.

June 30, 2005, 09:21 AM	#6
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	rwilson, oh definitely. They say "Winchester NT" on the headstamp. Same length brass and everything - they are .45ACP __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

June 29, 2005, 09:15 AM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You can tell the difference visually. It shouldn't even slow anyone down as brass is checked at every stage of the reloading process anyway. Just more rejects now or seperation if you want to save them.

June 30, 2005, 12:03 PM	#7
auto45 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 427	Winchester is a funny company. They 'screwed around' with their very popular AA shotshell series and didn't make a lot of people happy for many reasons...except Remington and others. So, small primers in ACP will probably just cut their sales down if the other manufacturers stay with the large primer...who will want the brass?? Their "big picture" must be very large.

June 30, 2005, 12:28 PM	#8
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	The Big Picture ??? I think the idea is to discourage reloading ! But then, I am a cynic __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

June 30, 2005, 05:10 PM	#9
BigSlick Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Texas of course Posts: 277	I see the 'Win NT' cases from time to time. I toss 'em. Telling small primers from large is pretty simple, there is enough difference in size that they are easily distinguishable. The rumor mill does indeed have it that around years end Winchester is going to small primers for all the 45 ACP offerings. From what I read (which is nofficial) the lower cost of small primers will provide a substantial manufacturing cost savings. It seems that in testing the 45 GAP, it was discovered a small primer was sufficient for all 45 ACP to ignite reliably. I haven't shot any of the NT so I don't have a clue about chrono readings on the stuff. I will continue to toss my small primer 45ACP in the junk bucket. What we face here is either Win will be the only mfr to use small primers, in which case some people will avoid it. Those who don't reload won't care as long as they can save a buck. Or, all manufacturers will follow suit and large primer 45 ACP will eventually be a thing of the past. It is well known that S&B has been subcontracted by Winchester to produce WWB recently. I would think this falls into line with the rumors of the primer change. Sub it out while you retool the mfg line to take small primers. I guess the decision came down to raising the price a buck a million or go to cheaper components. I can tell you one thing, if Winchester does make this change I have bought my last Winchester reloading component. No more primers, new brass, powder or hulls. New things are great in some respects, but with changes like these, how could you trust them with anything else. I (for one) won't. BigSlick __________________ Nobody likes war, but if you find yourself in one - fight for those you serve with and to make the trip home. Show mercy to those that deserve it and a relentless, ruthless, cunning evil to those who don't.

July 1, 2005, 12:46 PM	#10
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Well, before everybody goes and cuts their noses off tp spite their face. I found about two dozen of the WIN NT brass, and was curious about them. Winchester says to not reload them as they could get mixed up with regular large primer cases and one could have an accident. Otherwise, they are apparently safe to reload. What I did was load them up with small pistol primers and tried my pet target load of 5.0 gr. of W-231 and the SAECO 068 200 gr. cast bullet. I also loaded up an equal amount of ammo with standard large primer brass. At 25 yards, groups with the small primer brass were about a half inch smaller than the groups with the standard brass. Pistol was a Series 70 Colt Combat Commander with the teeny tiny sights Colt deemed proper. After I determined that they were safe to load, at least with the target grade loads I normally shoot, I loaded the series again and shot them in a Caspian framed gun with a Gold Cup upper and guts. Again, the small primered brass outshot the larger primes cases with the smallest groups. Coincidence? Who knows? I can only report what I experiences. I'll admit though, that it is a royal PITA to keep them separate. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!