Old Load Data Books

m0ntels · June 24, 2005, 08:09 PM

Found some old reloading manuals from the 50's and 60's and was comparing some of the data from the old books against the current Lyman book. Besides many things being long extinct, I noticed a few loads in the old books that arent in the new one and was kinda wondering why that is. For instance, there is some load data for 38 Special using 2400, which I use in other cartidges already but havent seen 2400 data on 38 Special before. Since it's used in the 357, it makes sense it could be used in 38, but I didnt wanna go playing around with magnum powder without any established guidelines. So is this data still any good/safe nowadays or was it people just making due with what was available 50 years ago?

As a side note, it was also kinda neat seeing what was and wasnt available 30 years before my birth...things have come a long way. There were a bunch of cartridges I had never even heard of and a load of wildcats that I guess didnt survive. All the Rem shotgun loads use size 57 primers. My bro asked where the 223 loads were in the 1957 Lyman book. They have pictures of all the old reloading equipment. Also many good articles still good for today. For history alone it was worth the couple buck I paid for them.

Randy

TGC · June 24, 2005, 09:07 PM

It is kind of neat to go through the old books, I have a close friend who has been loading since well before World War 2 I have played with his old pound dies. And to go through his libary is a rare treat as he is also a collector of Old and Rare Books. You know some of those old powders you were reading about he still has many of them in his inventory and once in a while we will take a day and load some of those old cartriges with the original powders it is great. A to the data you will find that over the years SAMMI has changed the specs on several cartriges one of the most notable is the 357 mag. [B] I HAVE USED THIS OLD DATA BUT IN MOST CASES IT IS HOTTER THAN TODAYS DATA. AS TO THE 38 SPL. WITH 2400 I DO THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS HOWEVER IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED AND WHEN I LOAD THESE LOADS I ONLY SHOOT THEM IN GUNS CHAMBERED FOR 357. One draw back to the 2400 loads is that they are very dirty especially when used with lead bullets. However i think you will find powders such as Bullseye or even Red Dot better for fun shoooting with your 38.

Art Eatman · June 24, 2005, 11:31 PM

If all you have is 2400 and you really need to load some .38 Spl, no problem. I imagine the load was dropped from later books since so many other powders work so much better.

One load I've used since 1950 in my '06 is 52.5 grains of 4064 behind 150-grain bullets. I've never seen any pressure signs, nor had any group-size differences over all these years of different primers, different 150-grain bullets and all these different lots of powder. Go figure...

, Art

steveno · June 25, 2005, 03:26 AM

I have some of the old Lyman and Ideal manuals and some of the loads are quite hot. you have to remember that the testing equipment has got a LOT better over the years. they do make for good reading

Quantrill · June 25, 2005, 08:12 AM

I have some old books dated 1937. Their loads are usually hotter than todays. I think that is because their pressure testing equipment was not near as precise as todays. I have used their starting loads with no problems. As regards the .38spec loads using 2400; I would use it starting with the lowest charge. Elmer Keith recomended 13gr for a .38sp HIGH SPEED (+P of the old days for a N frame .38sp.) George Nonte recomended 12 gr for K frame .38s. I have used 10gr and shot them from my J frame but not as a rule. All these are with the Keith bullet of 168/172gr SWC Lyman#358429. Quantrill

m0ntels · June 25, 2005, 02:28 PM

It was kinda strange because I've always heard that the old loads were all hot, but going through what I load for now (9, 38/357, 41) it seems that there are and equal number that are equal to or lighter than the new printed max loads. I think the fav part of the old books so far is one has a section that lists all the engineers' pet loads. I figure that they of course arent the absolute 100% best for every gun ever made, but it's kinda neat that it shows you more closely where your best load will probably be at.

Randy

LAH · June 25, 2005, 02:59 PM

Lyman 45th list 8 to 10.5 grs. of 2400 with the L-358429. I've shot lots with 10 grs. and still feel it's a safe load and for me a very accurate load.

steveno said: you have to remember that the testing equipment has got a LOT better over the years.........Creeker agrees.

Art said: One load I've used since 1950 in my '06 is 52.5 grains of 4064 behind 150-grain bullets. I've never seen any pressure signs, nor had any group-size differences over all these years of different primers, different 150-grain bullets and all these different lots of powder............My dear Art, you're a man after my own heart. I've used this load also.

drinks · June 25, 2005, 08:30 PM

I am convinced that a lot of the new loads are lawyered loads, my '65 Lyman manual gives pressures as well as velocity and the amount a pellet of copper crushes has not really changed in the last 40 years.
Don

June 24, 2005, 08:09 PM	#1
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	Old Load Data Books Found some old reloading manuals from the 50's and 60's and was comparing some of the data from the old books against the current Lyman book. Besides many things being long extinct, I noticed a few loads in the old books that arent in the new one and was kinda wondering why that is. For instance, there is some load data for 38 Special using 2400, which I use in other cartidges already but havent seen 2400 data on 38 Special before. Since it's used in the 357, it makes sense it could be used in 38, but I didnt wanna go playing around with magnum powder without any established guidelines. So is this data still any good/safe nowadays or was it people just making due with what was available 50 years ago? As a side note, it was also kinda neat seeing what was and wasnt available 30 years before my birth...things have come a long way. There were a bunch of cartridges I had never even heard of and a load of wildcats that I guess didnt survive. All the Rem shotgun loads use size 57 primers. My bro asked where the 223 loads were in the 1957 Lyman book. They have pictures of all the old reloading equipment. Also many good articles still good for today. For history alone it was worth the couple buck I paid for them. Randy

June 25, 2005, 08:30 PM	#8
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	Old manuals I am convinced that a lot of the new loads are lawyered loads, my '65 Lyman manual gives pressures as well as velocity and the amount a pellet of copper crushes has not really changed in the last 40 years. Don

June 24, 2005, 09:07 PM	#2
TGC Member Join Date: June 23, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 16	It is kind of neat to go through the old books, I have a close friend who has been loading since well before World War 2 I have played with his old pound dies. And to go through his libary is a rare treat as he is also a collector of Old and Rare Books. You know some of those old powders you were reading about he still has many of them in his inventory and once in a while we will take a day and load some of those old cartriges with the original powders it is great. A to the data you will find that over the years SAMMI has changed the specs on several cartriges one of the most notable is the 357 mag. [B] I HAVE USED THIS OLD DATA BUT IN MOST CASES IT IS HOTTER THAN TODAYS DATA. AS TO THE 38 SPL. WITH 2400 I DO THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS HOWEVER IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED AND WHEN I LOAD THESE LOADS I ONLY SHOOT THEM IN GUNS CHAMBERED FOR 357. One draw back to the 2400 loads is that they are very dirty especially when used with lead bullets. However i think you will find powders such as Bullseye or even Red Dot better for fun shoooting with your 38.

June 24, 2005, 11:31 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If all you have is 2400 and you really need to load some .38 Spl, no problem. I imagine the load was dropped from later books since so many other powders work so much better. One load I've used since 1950 in my '06 is 52.5 grains of 4064 behind 150-grain bullets. I've never seen any pressure signs, nor had any group-size differences over all these years of different primers, different 150-grain bullets and all these different lots of powder. Go figure... , Art

June 25, 2005, 03:26 AM	#4
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I have some of the old Lyman and Ideal manuals and some of the loads are quite hot. you have to remember that the testing equipment has got a LOT better over the years. they do make for good reading

June 25, 2005, 08:12 AM	#5
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	I have some old books dated 1937. Their loads are usually hotter than todays. I think that is because their pressure testing equipment was not near as precise as todays. I have used their starting loads with no problems. As regards the .38spec loads using 2400; I would use it starting with the lowest charge. Elmer Keith recomended 13gr for a .38sp HIGH SPEED (+P of the old days for a N frame .38sp.) George Nonte recomended 12 gr for K frame .38s. I have used 10gr and shot them from my J frame but not as a rule. All these are with the Keith bullet of 168/172gr SWC Lyman#358429. Quantrill

June 25, 2005, 02:28 PM	#6
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	It was kinda strange because I've always heard that the old loads were all hot, but going through what I load for now (9, 38/357, 41) it seems that there are and equal number that are equal to or lighter than the new printed max loads. I think the fav part of the old books so far is one has a section that lists all the engineers' pet loads. I figure that they of course arent the absolute 100% best for every gun ever made, but it's kinda neat that it shows you more closely where your best load will probably be at. Randy

June 25, 2005, 02:59 PM	#7
LAH Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2002 Location: In The Hardwoods Posts: 1,188	Lyman 45th list 8 to 10.5 grs. of 2400 with the L-358429. I've shot lots with 10 grs. and still feel it's a safe load and for me a very accurate load. steveno said: you have to remember that the testing equipment has got a LOT better over the years.........Creeker agrees. Art said: One load I've used since 1950 in my '06 is 52.5 grains of 4064 behind 150-grain bullets. I've never seen any pressure signs, nor had any group-size differences over all these years of different primers, different 150-grain bullets and all these different lots of powder............My dear Art, you're a man after my own heart. I've used this load also.