Sig 226 X-5 level one questions

[Big Dave]

Hi Guys,

I'm interested in one of these and have a few questions.

1. Does it have the same ergonomics as the P226? I have an W German 226 and it fits my hand well.
2. Can you get 10 round magazines for the X-5. I live in Hawaii...10 round max.
3. I don't shoot my old 226 any more because I don't like the long take up in the trigger...I assume that's not an issue in the X-5 Level one.
4. Are they pretty much all the same...or are some years better than others?

Thanks so much,
Dave

Here's a pic of my P226...just for good will!

[Rinspeed]

That's a good looking 226 you have there, it's a shame you can't warm up to it. The X-5 L1 has a very sweet trigger and it's adjustable down to 2.2#. Standard 226 10 round mags work fine in the X-5. There were some issues with the extractor on older 9mm X-5s. Bruce Gray has come up with a replacement to take care of any issues. If you can afford it I'm certain you won't be disappointed with a L1.

[Big Dave]

Cool, thanks for the input.

Do you know if the grip ergonomics are the same between the older Sigs and the new X5?

I got the P226 when I was 21 in 1991. I enjoyed it for many years. At this point I enjoy shooting for accuracy at 25 yards and that seems to work best with target sights & a light / crisp trigger.

Thanks,
Dave

[BigJimP]

The grip on the L-1 X Five ..is different from the other versions of the X-Five and all of the 226's..../ it comes with the wood NIL grips ---and I have big hands, and they're fine, but shooters with smaller hands have issues with the grip feel. Its also a very heavy gun with a full mag in it....I think mine is right at 55 oz ...with a full mag in it.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...4&d=1359744729 is mine, in .40S&W.

The trigger on the L-1 X-Five is adjustable from 2.0 to 4.0 lbs...( not 2.2 lbs like mentioned above ).

The L-1 X-Five is shipped with a 19 rd mag in 9mm / 14 rd mag in .40S&W depending on how you order it. The X-Five L-1 has a deep mag well in it...and I've never tried to seat a standard 226 mag in it...( but all of my standard 226 mags in 9mm are 15 round mags / and my standard 226 mags in .40S&W are 12 round mags..../ there is heavy base plate on the X-Five L-1 mags..that extend the mag below the mag well...that's partly what gives it a nice clean look when the mag is in the gun.

None of the Sigs ...not even the L-1 X-Five are a light crisp trigger. All of the Sig 226's triggers move thru an arc ( so they'll never be as crisp or as clean as a trigger in a 1911 as an example). I find the X-Five L-1 trigger that I have to be very good ...but its a "race gun" ...and while it will shoot 1" groups at 25 yds...it may not be your best option.

I have the trigger on my L-1 X-Five tuned down to about 2.2 lbs...and it breaks clean...and resets smoothly ....but its a long reset ( like any Sig ).

I like the gun a lot ....but if I were to list the top 5 guns in my safe:
# 1 and # 2 would be a pair of 1911's from Wilson Combat...
#3 would be a single action revolver from Freedom Arms...
( all 3 of these guns will shoot 1" groups at 25 yds )...

#4 would probably be one of my S&W model 27-2's...in 4" or 6"...

# 5 might be my L-1 X-Five.../ but it might get bumped out ..if I buy another Wilson or another Freedom Arms revolver.
-------
#6 in my safe....Ed Brown 1911....
#7 ...probably a model 29 S&W revolver...
#8 ...might be a Kimber gold combat 1911...
# 9 - 10 probably more revolvers....
---------
a pair of all stainless 226's ( one in 9mm and one in .40S&W) ...would be in there somewhere between 11 and 15...
Nice guns ...but not great triggers..../ Sig makes my favorite gun in a double stack gun and in a DA/SA trigger.../ but my primary carry gun has always been a 5" 1911 in .45 acp ( and for the last 8 yrs, its been one of my Wilson's). I had a Sig 226 at the range on sat...in 9mm / and a Sig 239 in 9mm and one of my 1911's in 9mm...had a great day / shot all 3 guns pretty well.../ but at 25 yds...( which I like to shoot as well after I'm done with my tactical drills...) and I did not have my X-Five along that day ...but my Freedom Arms and one of my Wilson's do the job very well.

One issue I do have on the L-1 X Five is the sights ....the rear sight is Black ( no white outline ) ...and the front sight post is Black. No night sights, big dots, fibre optic or whatever.....again, Sig makes this gun as a "Race Gun" for competition....not for Bulls Eye accuracy.../ sometimes in a dark range, I have some issues finding those sights...

But everyone should buy and shoot what they like. In my experience, the extractor issues were overblown by the internet...I purchased mine new, when they were first out ...and it probably has 10,000 rds is all thru it ...not a lot for a gun like that ...but its never been a problem. Some buddies have the same gun in 9mm...and they've had no issues with extractors either.

Street price on them in my area...for L-1 is around $ 2,500..../ so they're cheaper than Wilson Combat 1911's ....and Freedom Arms revolvers.../ and while they're a nice gun.../ I don't know that they'll ever be a great gun !

[Rinspeed]

The trigger on the L-1 X-Five is adjustable from 2.0 to 4.0 lbs...( not 2.2 lbs like mentioned above ).

Check your manual, mine states 2.2 to 3.5 lbs.

[BigJimP]

check the online link ....it says 2.0 to 4.0 ...as well....

.....and I know that's what my guns is because I used a trigger pull gague on it - when the gun was new a few yrs ago.../ to see how far down it would really go ......and I set it up, just a little to about 2.2 lbs....

[stephen426]

What is your purpose for this gun? If I was going to shell out that kind of money, i would consider buyng a P210 instead. I have 2 of them and they are incredible shooters. I would also look into a Les Baer 1911 before buying a Sig 226 X-5. If you are looking for a competition gun, a lot of people swear by CZ. You will save a ton of money over the Sig X-5 too!

[Rinspeed]

check the online link ....it says 2.0 to 4.0 ...as well....

Page 12...



http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsC...l/P226X5OM.pdf

[Big Dave]

Hey, thank you for the input and the plusses and minuses...especially on the trigger. Good info.

I have tried to like the 1911 platform and have owned a couple of nice custom 1911's and they just don't do it for me (I'm sorry to say). I'm ready to try another semi auto platform.

Here's the use. Range gun only. No planned competitions.
I shoot 25 yards...paper targets at the local range. And I enjoy shooting the steel plates out to 100 yards on the silhouette side of the range.

I've searched the net for all the usual suspects (Sig 210, S&W 952, CZ Custom Shop) and the one that keeps coming up at the top of the list is the X5 L1. Unfortunately I probably will not have a chance to see any of these in person.

BigJimP: Do any CZ Customs reside in your safe?

Thanks,
Dave

[stephen426]

Hi Big Dave,

I think I am the one who mentioned CZ Custom guns. I do not have any in my safe, but I did fire one that belongs to a competition shooter. They are very well built guns and a great value for what you are getting. I will probably need to add one to my collection soon. Here is their website for your viewing pleasure.

http://czcustom.com/

http://czcustom.com/CZ75_SP01_SHADOW_CustomShop.aspx

[BigJimP]

No, I'm not a CZ fan-of any of their guns.../ but everyone should collect and shoot what they like....( or at least I do )...not that CZ's are bad guns...I just don't have any interest in them ...

My handgun collection is comprised of about:

25 S&W revolvers...
model 18's, 617's in .22
pre model 10 in .38 spl
model 19's, 27's, 28's ...686's, 66's in .357 mag ( 13 guns here)
model 29's and 629's in .44 mag.. ( 6 guns here )

1 Freedom Arms single action revolver - I had made in .357 mag,
4 3/4 " Octagonal barrel, large frame, 5 shot...

12 ...1911's....Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer and Kimber - three in 9mm, one in .40S&W and 8 in .45 acp

5 Sigs....L1 XFive in .40S&W
pair of 226's all stainless - .40S&W and 9mm
pair of 239's - 9mm and .40S&W

a variety of semi-auto .22's
S&W model 41
Browning Buckmark
High Standard
--------
only a couple of rifles...( no black rifles)
and about 15 shotguns ...mostly Browning O/U's...

is where my interest is.
-----------------
If I had to pick one gun ...out of my safe....for 25 yds Bulls Eye shooting ...or even out to 100 yds../ it would be the Freedom Arms single action revolver...that has a 3.25 lb trigger in it, no creep, no slack....beautiful piece of craftmanship. My eyes are not good...but I can punish a 3" dot at 25 yds all day long with that gun shooting standing - two handed ( not supported ) - with my reloads, 158gr Montana Gold bullet..../ the gun will shoot better than I can shoot it ...but that's the best I can do with it. At about $ 3,750 a yr ago or so ...it was worth every penny.

I can't shoot my X-Five L1 model that well...

[stephen426]

If you do insist on the Sig 226 X-5, the same site I posted also sells them. They are out of stock, but they also list the gun 12% below MSRP.

http://czcustom.com/SigSauerFirearms.aspx

The .40 S&W model is a full 25% off MSRP!!!
http://czcustom.com/p226x540sw.aspx

[Big Dave]

Thanks for messing with my head. I'm so confused.

I officially am back to square one and don't know what the heck I want.

Dave

[LED]

Big Dave:

I own an X Five Tactical, and I have trained with it. I am also familiar with most current S/S.
1. The grip is the same as all 226. The decocker is replaced with a slide mounted safety.
2. The trigger reach is short, and the take up very short. It is SAO.
3. Regarding the 10 round mags I would call the S/S Pro Shop in Epping NH, or customer support.
4. I don't know of any variations in quality over the few years. Some X Fives come in DA/SA but that does nothing for their stated purpose as target pistols.
Each comes with a signed proof target.

I kept it brief to avoid information overload.

[BigJimP]

The X-Five Tactical and the L-1 model are very different ..in terms of how the grips feel, in my opinion.

The X-Five Tactical grips - feel very much like a standard 226 model.

The L-1 X-Five with the NIL wood grips is very different. The other 3 models of the X-Five ( competition, tactical and all around ) each share some features of the L-1 model ...but the L-1 model is the only one with the adjustable trigger in it and its the only one with the wood NIL grips on it.

You should really test fire one if you can - before you buy ....or at least find one in inventory somewhere that you can hold...maybe a gun show locally - but I don't see a lot of the L-1 models around.

But you're the only one that can decide if its the perfect gun for what you want to do with it ...or not...

[Big Dave]

Big Jim,

Regarding the sights on your X5. Other than the white outline how do you like the proportions of the notch and post for accuracy work? Does LPA make the sights on your X5?

To hold me over I might change out the sights on my 226. I find the factory combat sights cover my 6" targets since the shortest distance at my range is 25 yards.

Thanks,
Dave

[BigJimP]

There is no white outline on the rear sight...( so didn't mean to confuse you).

I don't know who makes the sights on the L-1 X-Five for Sig...( and I don't know what LPA is )..??? If LPA is a company its news to me....I've just assumed it meant low profile adjustable...??

The sights on the X-Five .../ it probably depends on how good your eyes are - what kind of light you're shooting in, etc.....again its not meant to be a long range bulls eye gun...its built as a competition race gun / so the rear sight is probably a little too wide an opening to be real accurate at long ranges.

If you really want it to be a bulls eye gun ...yes, I think you'd want to switch out both the rear and front sight ( or at least change the blade in the rear - if you can find out who made them ).

[BigJimP]

The sights on my Freedom Arms...are more suitable for long range accuracy ...in my opinion....

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...0&d=1339790943

with the fibre optic on the front ....and the adjustable rear.
--------------
But in my opinion....long range accuracy also calls for a real good trigger...and no trigger, that has to move thru an arc, like the X-Five has to move thru, because its hinged with a pin at the top....and has to travel thru that arc before it breaks is your best option.

Something more like a single action revolver - is superior in that area.../ or some kind of other trigger with no creep and no slack.

[Big Dave]

Thank Jim,

Is the stock of your Freedom Arms revolver designed to be held with one hand only? Or, does it work well with a two hand grip?

Thanks,
Dave

[BigJimP]

My gun is their large frame model 83 ( 5 shot ) ...and it weighs about 55 oz. I specd mine in the premier grade, 4 3/4" Octagonal barrel, full action job on the trigger and to break at 3.25 lbs, with overtravel screw, Cocobolo grips, adj rear sight and the Fibre Optic front sight.

I have big hands ...and the large frame suits me shooting it 2 handed. I suppose you could shoot it one handed..

http://www.freedomarms.com/

But they pride themselves on meeting your specs when you place your order. For a price - they will do most anything you want done to the gun.

In my area - I see a few Freedom Arms in inventory in shops...most of them are 7" to 10" round barrels, calibers are often .454 Casull, 44 Mag, .475 Linebaugh or .500 Wyoming Express. I rarely see a dealer order one with the octagonal barrel or in .357 Mag ( you can buy an awful nice S&W model 27 or Colt Python in .357 mag...for under $ 2,000 ) or at least a lot less than ordering a Freedom Arms.../ ....and I know a few guys in the Rocky Mountain states that do carry Freedom Arms revolvers on horseback in the back country ...or take big game with them in season - usually well within 100 yds ...but they will certainly, with the right caliber, reach out to 100 yds or more with a great deal of accuracy.
----------
When you go to their website...go to "Guns" ...then under model 83's...click on premier grade link ...and it gives you the base prices..../ then towards the bottom of the page they will give you price sheets for options...and at the bottom there is a link on full specs...weight, etc...and calibers available...they have something for everyone.

The medium sized model 97's ...are 6 shot cyclinders / have the transfer bar safety, etc.../ if you carry a model 83, it needs to be carried on an empty cyclinder.

Freedom Arms offers holsters, etc.../ I won't every carry mine so I don't need a holster for it - the gun was a birthday present to myself last yr...and its just for fun. It took about 4 months for my order to be delivered...but I suspect its longer these days - but I don't really know.

The guns have a real neat feature.../ a bushing in the frame to remove the firing pin ( you should not dry fire these revolvers on an empty cyclinder ) or the firing pins will bottom out and can break. I know because I broke one..( I read the manual - but I dry fired it anyway 40 or 50 times probably )....but its an easy fix ...grind a screw driver to fit the bushing slot - back it out - replace the pin and the spring / put it back together.

[Big Dave]

Sounds like that's the pride and joy of your collection!

Sounds like a fantastic gun and company.

Dave

[BigJimP]

Its certainly one of the top 5 best guns I own....but not better than my pair of 1911's from Wilson Combat...( that also have a 1" guarantee at 25 yds).....but 5" 1911's ....are a very different platform than a single action revolver.

This Freedom Arms is certainly the best single action revolver in my collect...

but I'm very fond of some of my older S&W double action revolvers too ( like model 27's in .357 Mag / and model 29's in .44 mag )...

Kind of like the X-Five L-1 model ...it kind of has its niche as well.../ hard to compare any one of them to the others...

[Big Dave]

Well, was weak today and purchased the X-6 Level 1 in 9mm from my local shop. I went in looking for a CZ SP-01 to customize. No CZ but they had the Sig. So, I'll get it after registration in a couple of weeks.

They did have a Wilson CQB in .45 in green. I didn't care for the color...but what a great gun and trigger. I see what you mean about the Wilson 1911 trigger pull. Outstanding.

Thanks,
Dave

[BigJimP]

I wouldn't buy the CQB in green either....

[kcub]

Does the X5 Black and White come with the L1 adjustable trigger?