My beef with the phrase "once fired brass"

[AK Man]

I have noticed that people selling brass have added the the phrase "At Least" to the once fired brass. Because they really don't know how many times it has been fired.

[Grey_Lion]

what calibers do you shoot and how many rounds to you go through in a year?

I fire only .40 S&W at present. Appx 3000 to 5000 rounds a year. I fire both pistol and carbine.

But when I'm at the range - I'll collect any brass I'm allowed and I buy the occasional bucket of range brass.

I will use what I consider trash 9mm brass to make my own JHP out of having gotten into swaging this last year.

I've given some 6000 cleaned and sorted 9mm to my brother in law with the progressive press I bought him for his birthday last year.

This has left me with thousands of pieces of assorted brass. I've cleaned and traded most of the .45 I've come across. That always goes pretty quick.

I've got a handful of sig .357 - several 1000 cleaned & sorted 9mm luger, then a bunch of odds and ends.

I hold on to the 300 blackout and .308 as I haven't yet decided on what rifle to get. And I'm holding on to the .223 brass in case I go 300 blackout - to cut and shape.

And lastly, I'm also considering a .45-70 Marlin lever action - but I've not come across any brass.

[briandg]

I don't know if I mentioned it or if it was mentioned before, 9mm is almost always going to be fired and dumped from new boxes, at least at any indoor range, or at many other smaller ranges that are too busy for people to scavenge, or frequented by the right kind of people.

I don't believe that I have ever picked up a case that was an abandoned reload in the last few years other than my own at the range where I shoot. I never see anyone there with loose ammo in cans or bags, and every time I go there the barrels are filled with boxes, most of it the bulk boxes from the big three.

It's a fifty foot range and another that's 100 feet without a bench. Most of the shooting is done from twenty five feet or less! somebody, probably the owner comes down and sweeps it clean once in a while. When I go, the smartest thing to do is abandon the stuff that I shot up by the bench and go out to the twenty foot piles. Let the guy with the broom pick up my abandoned brass, the stuff out there is always what looks like it was used one time. When you see 500 rounds of the same darned thing, and there are bulk boxes for a thousand in the trash, hey, you can bet your dollar that it's all fresh.

Once I collected a satchel full of brass, a trainer had gone through thousands of rounds. Turned out that about half of the stuff was brand new aquila or euro stuff.

Am I the only one who is at least a little embarrassed to be seen collecting the stuff? Granted, I feel self conscious about everything.

[briandg]

44, that was a great story. but you are such a naughty boy!

A lot of us are, or were brass rats. I was, and I don't mind that. What I dislike is brass vultures! I have, on (rare) occasion had people "scrounging" MY BRASS while I was still shooting.

A guy was shooting .45 next to me, I was shooting my 9 mm. His brass was flying all over, landing all over my bay. I was picking my brass up and as I did I collected his. As a favor.Oh, boy, he gave me the nastiest look and was about to come bounce all over me. I had a full hand of his by then and said "here, this is yours." I changed bays after that.

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

[Nick_C_S]

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

Yes. Heh, just kidding of course. Sometimes I'm done shooting for the inning while the range is still hot; and I'll sweep and gather up another's brass into one small spot - just to make busy work. They usually appreciate it. What can make it particularly amusing is that I'm usually shooting a revolver.

[44 AMP]

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

You're not, but we seem to be getting fewer and fewer...


Another thing I like to do is take my 42 Walther P.38 with me to the range, that way, when the guy to my LEFT pelts me with his brass, I can pelt him back!

(for those who don't know, and I didn't until I got one, the P.38 ejects to the left!!)

No idea why its the opposite of virtually every other semi in the world, other than some German designer thought it was a good idea...

I shoot some unusual guns, .44 Auto Mag, .45 Win Mag, and some others. Often there are people on the range who will pick up my brass while I am shooting, and set it on my bench. I always thank them.

Back to once fired brass, if you're looking for a quantity of once fired .45-70 brass, good luck. You MIGHT find a box at a show, here or there, but generally its not a caliber people shoot and leave the empties behind.

I learned not to buy "once fired" .303 British, one batch I got had a full head separation on my first firing. SO, for that caliber, I bought enough new brass to meet my needs.

there was a couple years when I was on the prowl for once fired .32ACP brass. Never found even a full box worth at the shows, and didn't want to shell out for new virgin brass.

Then, one show, a dealer had around 2k in 500count bags. Price was good, I bought one. Then I had to find 10 of the itty bitty boxes to keep it in!
That was almost harder than finding the brass....

(and don't tell me I should have just ordered online, that wasn't possible, then...)

[GWS]

At my range we have one community police dept. who uses it for target practice and/or qualification shoots using dept. supplied new fodder. Don't know exactly when it occurs, but I've been lucky enough on occasion to happen upon the aftermath the next morning! 10 to 20 brand new but empty boxes of 50 count Winchester .40 or 9mm in the trash can......and the spent brass from them lying on the firing line....pretty obviously once fired. Happy lucky days! Public servants at their best! I don't mind one bit cleaning up after them!

[m&p45acp10+1]

44amp .32 Auto brass is hard to fine once fired. (Try finding it on the ground.) I never try to sell range pick up as once fired. My wife's gun seems to make the brass evaporate. If she fires 100 rounds if I am lucky I will find maybe 20 if I get lucky. Also I do not reload 9mm Mak for that same reason.

For handguns I stick to common calibers for the purpose of being able to pick up brass at the range. I always manage to get a quart or gallon size bag of brass when I go to the range. Once I sort it I clean it up. Any that I do not use or load for I take to the range manager as a thank you. He reloads himself. Any he does not use he trades for what he does.

Once or twice a year I sell of extra .223 brass that I have cleaned, and sorted if I am needing cash to get equipment.

[kmw1954]

On another forum that I am a member about a year ago they started a sticky thread for "Brass Swap". The way they work it is to post what you have to trade or what you are looking for and then the actual deals are done thru PM's. Seem to be working very well.

At some point when I get enough to make it worth while I will offer up the stuff I'll never use.

m&p45 I have a Witness 380 that throws it over my head and behind me and like you I lose at least 1/2 of it.

[FrankenMauser]

.32 Auto and .380 Auto are high loss cartridges for me.
For the .380, I never plan on recovering more than 50%. In gravel, recovery is around 80%. In grass, it's about 30%. On concrete, it can be 90%(+). I have never had 100% recovery, even with tarps laid out or a net set up to catch brass. Why it disappears where 9mm doesn't, even though they're nearly the same size, is beyond me...
Overall, I lose more while shooting than I find when scrounging, but other people give me enough to keep the stash fairly stable.

The .32s, though... Even though I shoot very little of it, a really good day will only have a 50% recovery rate. The best I've ever done (excluding revolvers) was finding 8 of 12 (75%!) after firing two six-round magazines through the Chinese "Mauser" -- and I think that was only because there were three to five people watching the pistol and the brass, and the area was hard-packed, dark mud. (But we still lost four!)

On the up side... I have never paid or traded for .32 Auto brass or ammo. I've found enough over the years, been given enough ("once"-fired), and been gifted enough factory ammo that there has been no need to buy any. (Being a low volume cartridge for me certainly helps.)


I'd hate to have a .25 Auto -- because I would insist on reloading for it. I think I'd have to assume a 100% loss rate for brass, and just be happy if I found anything.
I do, however, find far more .25 Auto at the range than .32 Auto. It's rare, but still there in quantities three to four times that of .32 Auto.

[Unclenick]

I have an inherited cheap Italian .25 Auto. The way I avoid reloading for it is I never shoot it. I shot it once at about the age of 9, and that was uninteresting enough. I inherited it with most of the same box of ammo I shot a few rounds from back then that was still with it, so I don't think Grandpa was all that thrilled with his purchase, either.

[44 AMP]

I think most .25s get one magazine fired, and "yep, it works" get put away and never used again.

[FrankenMauser]

I believe that's probably par for the course, as well, 44 AMP.
...But I am (obviously?) abnormal. I refuse to own something that I'm unwilling to fire at least somewhat regularly.

---

Unclenick - Similar story with the Chinese "Mauser" .32 Auto. When I inherited it, I received half a dozen boxes of ammo. A few were '90s production, but two partial boxes were from the '70s - and the same ammo that I always saw being fired in it when I was a kid. (I was never allowed to fire the pistol then, as it was [legitimately] considered too dangerous. It didn't help that, at that time and before a repair, it was known for randomly running away and dumping the mag. )
What I always get a chuckle out of is the newest box of ammo that came with it...

I know I've talked about the pistol before, but I don't expect anyone to remember.
So, keep in mind that this is a hand-made semi-auto from some 'back alley' in Western China, assumed to have been made some time between 1942 and 1950; and, when looked at by anyone that understands firearm design, was clearly made by someone that didn't have a clue about how firearms operate or understand the purpose of certain parts/assemblies. It's amazing that the thing works at all. It's a dog. It's unreliable. It's all mild steel (except, possibly, the barrel). The entire pistol is held together with soft steel pins. It is arguably dangerous. It has, if I remember correctly, a 1:2.8" rate of twist with an ACME-ish thread in the barrel. And more....
It is highly questionable ... and rarely fired.

So, that last box of ammo?
Hornady Custom 60 gr XTP 'defense' ammo.
A family member, whom I have not identified yet, gifted that box of Hornady ammo to my grandfather so he could use the questionable, dangerous, and unreliable Chinese novelty for concealed carry.
They clearly didn't understand what they were suggesting.

(My grandfather was an idiot in some respects, but he wasn't dumb enough to carry that pistol.)

[Unclenick]

FrankenMauser,

It seems to me some British ordnance engineers once figured out that a twist rate of six calibers was about the limit for a gun still being able to fire. That would be just under 2" for the .32, so you are, uhhh, safe?

That is a piece for a never-shoot-'em collector, for sure.

[RC20]

Ditto, Baby Browning, didn't figure it would shoot as the firing pin sound was lame. My brother told me it was normal, shot it, cool, family relic (not heirloom) back in the safe with what rounds came with it and he gave me.

(for those who don't know, and I didn't until I got one, the P.38 ejects to the left!!)

No I did not and it makes sense it was a German who decided to go other direction (I can say that, I am pure German decent if there is such a thing) - I also have a fine VW that had the worlds worst oil pump balance module thingy setup (since fixed with the new improved gear upgrade)

[44 AMP]

The ancestors of your Volkswagen engineers built a turretless "tank" with 200mm frontal armor, a high velocity 71 caliber 88mm gun, gasoline engines driving generators to power electric motors for drive, and NO machineguns!

When used in a breakthrough role, they got slaughtered by Soviet infantry!

After the war they also built some fairly utilitarian, but pretty decent sports cars and racing machines.

Porsche...

[F. Guffey]

A reloader purchases once fired cases and then it become one of those 'and then' moments. And then he sizes and de-primes the cases, not me, things around here never gets that slow.

F. Guffey

[zeke]

Really, how can you have a honest gun collection without at least one 25 acp? Have a Baby Browning, that I shot twice.

Can not pass up free brass on the ground, and am in process of condemning my heirs with 5 gallon buckets full of it. Last time that some was sorted and cleaned, got almost 1000 380 acp cases and several 100 32 acp.

As a public service to the fat, old and bald boys, our range would certainly appreciate any scrappers to come and clean up the pistol range on consistent basis. Save us what little use of our knees/backs we got left.

Even bought some .40 pistols, just to use all the .40 brass picked up.

[F. Guffey]

I have noticed that people selling brass have added the the phrase "At Least" to the once fired brass. Because they really don't know how many times it has been fired.

I have purchased cases from one firing range; they allowed me to sort through bins of cases. I paid 8 cents each with 10 free for ever one hundred. I understand that is confusing to most but the sorting had to do with the length of the cases from the shoulder to the case head. I was looking for cases that had been fired in trashy old chambers.

Trashy old chambers! Yes, manufacturers of components do not make cases for reloaders that know what they are doing. I determine the length of the chamber first and then size cases to fit; problem, cases start out as being minimum length/full length sized. That means the case must be fired to fit, I allow others to fire first. I love those trashy old chambers.

I have one rifle with a trashy old chamber, again if I fire factory minimum length/full length sized ammo in that rifle I start out with .011" clearance. Instead of fireforming I start out by forming. I form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 by adjusting the die off the shell holder .014" to obtain the magic .002" clearance. The rifle was part of a controversy between smiths, there was one that knew what he was doing and the others did not have a clue.

Back to my rifle with a long chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face: Even with .016" clearance the case does not stretch when shooting minimum length/full length sized cases. I could fire new ammo in the rifle but I choose not to use cases that are short from the end of the neck to the case head; I am the fan of covering the chamber with the case.

Again: I have formed and fire formed wildcat cases that shortened .045" from the end of the neck to the case head.

F. Guffey