Sell Me On a Kahr

[HighValleyRanch]

I just bought an early stainless K9 and carry it in a holster I designed.

Nice holster! Did you fabricate it as well? Interesting constrution as the holster looks continuously wrapped around the trigger guard, so is the connecting seam on the front?

[Charlie98]

I bought my first CW9 actually intending to NOT like it... my first poly pistol in a cartridge I don't like (9mm.) What I found was a truly fantastic pistol. I now own 3 CW9's and a CM9, they are my EDC pistol.

The long trigger pull is something you have to get used to, yes. It is not unlike a long DA revolver trigger except it is very linear and doesn't stack.

It is a single-stack pistol... in many ways superior to double-stack 9's, but in some ways lacking because of it. I don't necessarily have a problem with it... I am able to hit what I'm aiming at with the Kahr.

All of my Kahrs have fed 100%, contrary to popular belief.

[wild cat mccane]

That's awesome your CW380 works. It has had a very rocky history. You got lucky.

[Oldjarhead]

I have owned for seven years now, an all black PM9 with night sights. The thing is a tack driver. Super accurate. Like all Kahrs, at first, the recoil spring is real stiff, and the pistol is required to have a two hundred round break in. After that , my PM9 has been super reliable. One word of advice. The small pistols you must grip tightly, and not "limp wrist" it.

I just put down a deposit for an all black,, with night sights, P45, I just ordered yesterday. I prefer the premium line. Nothing wrong with the Value line of Kahrs, I just like all the features on the premium line. They are great pistols.

[johnwilliamson062]

I have a kahr T9. I love it. I don't actually have any use for it, but still keep it, which is very abnormal for me. I absolutely love the trigger. The polygonal rifling is great for me. Someday I will find a purpose for it.
Like some others, I am always amazed by people who don't run a couple hundred rounds through every new gun to learn and test it. I spend more breaking in a new hipoint than I do on the gun, and yes I still run a few hundred rounds throught them.
Slingshot is 100% reliable as long as done correctly. Most people ride the slide back though.


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[ncdmz]

I have had a PM45 for a number of years and its functioned flawlessly. It carries nicely too.

[Cheapshooter]

Very happy with my CM9. Accurate and reliable. Works OK for pocket carry in some pockets, but not all. For a very small 9MM if I were starting with a clean slate I would however be strongly considering the Sig P365 over the Kahr CM9.

[HighValleyRanch]

in many ways superior to double-stack 9's, but in some ways lacking because of it.

Magguts is currently working on their spring kits for the Kahr to increase magazine capacity. I have them in my Shield and contacted them to see if they were going to do the same for the Kahr 9 and 40 calibers. They said they expected to come out with the kits this summer.

[Dashunde]

I've been a huge PM9 fan and owner for ~20 years... the PM's set the bar for excellent shooting, thin and light micro 9mm's a loooong time ago.
It's taken decades for anyone to surpass the PM9's virtues.. until now... maybe.

In my book the only micro 9mm to genuinely challenge the Kahr is the new Sig P365.
My biggest complaint of the Kahr series is the giant, nasty, obnoxious, hip-bruising slide release.

If Kahr integrated their slide release into the frame (like Glock, Sig, etc) the Kahr would STILL.. after 20 years... be my daily pick.

But the Sig is nearly the same size as the PM9 (+/-) and does away with the silly large 1911 style release...

The P365 is a really strong contender in the all-day-comfortable micro-9 CCW catagory.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I spent 6 months searching for a new micro 9, to replace my LC9S which I have owned 2 of them and shot a whole lot of ammo down range. I am a range rat and through range buddies was able to shoot most of the guns out there. I really like the Kahr, nice gun, well made, like the trigger, especially for CCW. IMO these small carry guns do not need a glass trigger brake. I also own a Kahr CW 380 and that has been a nice shooter for me.
However I settled on the Nano. And after 2500 flawless rounds in the past two months of every kind of ammo out there, I have to say, I am now a huge fan. A extremely mild shooter, and handles Plus P ammo better than most guns handle standard. The friend of Kahr's told me it was very reliable and that day it was for me. However, it had a lot more recoil and muzzle flip than the Nano. But that said, it shot well. And both the Kahr and the Nano had the best size for what I was looking for.
I like the snag-less design of the Nano. Designed for the 40 cal and the pressures of the 40cal, it is built like a tank. Modular design.
There are some great 9mm's out there. You really need to try and shoot as many as you can.

[seeker_two]

Originally Posted by ncdmz

I have had a PM45 for a number of years and its functioned flawlessly. It carries nicely too.

IIRC, the Kahr .45ACP pistols can use 1911 magazines, as long as the mags aren't too tight in tolerances (i.e. Wilson, McCormick, etc.) Have you found this to be true?

If so, inexpensive magazines may also be a selling point.

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[ice monkey]

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

I spent 6 months searching for a new micro 9, to replace my LC9S which I have owned 2 of them and shot a whole lot of ammo down range. I am a range rat and through range buddies was able to shoot most of the guns out there. I really like the Kahr, nice gun, well made, like the trigger, especially for CCW. IMO these small carry guns do not need a glass trigger brake. I also own a Kahr CW 380 and that has been a nice shooter for me.
However I settled on the Nano. And after 2500 flawless rounds in the past two months of every kind of ammo out there, I have to say, I am now a huge fan. A extremely mild shooter, and handles Plus P ammo better than most guns handle standard. The friend of Kahr's told me it was very reliable and that day it was for me. However, it had a lot more recoil and muzzle flip than the Nano. But that said, it shot well. And both the Kahr and the Nano had the best size for what I was looking for.
I like the snag-less design of the Nano. Designed for the 40 cal and the pressures of the 40cal, it is built like a tank. Modular design.
There are some great 9mm's out there. You really need to try and shoot as many as you can.

Believe me when I tell you that I’ve shot my fair share of pocket 9s. Heck, I’ve even owned a Nano. It was a complete lemon. A Nano that’s a lemon with no slide stop... is a painful thing indeed. I’d love to love the Nano, but the piece of junk I got scared me off.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Sorry you had a lemon. It happens. I have heard the same kind of comments with the Kahr and just about every other gun out there. I have been shooting long enough to not pay attention to these kind of complaints on any gun from the internet. They did have some issues with 115 gr ammo when they first came out 6 or 7 years ago. Certainly not the case now. The gun has more than proven itself. Many great reviews out there.
As far as no slide stop, it is not needed at all on a gun this size. And using a slide stop is not the correct way to perform a drill any way. Many articles on this. After not having a slide stop, I actually do not want to go back to using one.
And for sure, I hate a bulky take down lever. If you cannot shoot a small pistol without a slide stop then yes, it would it would not be the gun for you.
I handle it quite well and the whole idea is to be a "SNAG FREE AS POSSIBLE.
Thanks for the comment, guns are like shoes. It is not a one size fit for all.
And I was just giving the OP yet another gun to try out. It is possible he would hate it or possible love it the way I have. And Beretta has been around for over 500 years. They seem to have learned a thing or two about making quality guns.
If I had listened to internet complaints about the Kahr, CW 380 I would not have bought this lovely little shooter. Nor the Pico, Nor the LC9S and on and on.

[Armybrat]

No problems with my CW45, PM9, CW9, or the CT380. Nice shooting well made guns.

[batmann]

I hate rain on somebody’s parade, I have a CW Kahr that has been back the mother shop and is not reliable.
I finally gave up on it and bought a Ruger LCP that has been 100% reliable with any ammo I put in it.
Regarding the Kahr manual of arms really sucks. To,load a round, you must do it by inserting the mag WITH slide locked back, no just pulling the slid back and putting one in the chamber.
I also found it very difficult to clean, the guide rod and spring are extremely hard to reassemble.

[JJE]

I just broke in a CW380 (bought new from a distributor in March 2018) and now carry it in a Don Hume JIT holster. My main CCW is a Glock 42, but I wanted an even smaller gun for those occasions when I wanted maximum concealment.

Before I bought the CW380, I read all the complaints and advice on KahrTalk. I avoided Fiocchi and all the other ammo that causes problems (supposedly because of rim thickness). I also cleaned and lubed the gun well before shooting it (there really wasn't much gunk in the gun, although the chamber/Barrel were pretty grimy from the factory).

I shot 100 rounds of Remington UMC (which most people report as being OK) with no failures, and then shot 50 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense (my choice for carry) again with no failures. I had 15 rounds of Speer Gold Dot lying around, so I shot 2 magazines of that (I put MagGuts +1 kits in two carry mags). The first round of the first mag got stuck on the feed ramp and I had to nudge it into battery. The rest of the Gold Dots ran OK. HOWEVER, Gold Dots are known to be problematic in the small 380 Kahrs because of the shape of the bullet nose, and I don't plan on buying any more Gold Dots, so I wasn't too dismayed.

I didn't have to do any filing or any other mod to get the gun to work, and I expect the gun to be reliable with the ammo I use. However, I'm pretty sure I would have problems if I ran a bunch of random imported ammo, so I'm not going to do that. I also suspect that the gun won't run reliably if it's dirty, so I'm going to have to clean it every time I shoot it (unlike any other gun I own).

Why am I willing to carry a gun that wont work with any ammo and that probably needs to be cleaned and lubed religiously, unlike my Glock 42? Because the Kahr has a trigger that I like a lot, it IS NOT straight blowback so the recoil is not punishing, the factory night sights (front dot only) are excellent for a small gun, AND even though it's small, it's just big enough that I can use my standard two-handed grip.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by batmann

I hate rain on somebody’s parade, I have a CW Kahr that has been back the mother shop and is not reliable.
I finally gave up on it and bought a Ruger LCP that has been 100% reliable with any ammo I put in it.
Regarding the Kahr manual of arms really sucks. To,load a round, you must do it by inserting the mag WITH slide locked back, no just pulling the slid back and putting one in the chamber.
I also found it very difficult to clean, the guide rod and spring are extremely hard to reassemble.

Nice guns Armybrat. And while I am a Nano fanboy, I will say Kahr makes some nice firearms.

[5whiskey]

I hate rain on somebody’s parade, I have a CW Kahr that has been back the mother shop and is not reliable.

Every gun manufacturer, even well respected ones, has examples of this. I am not saying that Kahr has an equal or lower rate of reliability failures, but quantifying that will be really difficult. Probably the best we can do is anecdotally, and this thread can serve that purpose. Count the number of happy Kahr owners versus ones who have had issues. What is the ratio? Does S&W or Ruger have a better or worse rep? Glock? There are user reported issues with Glocks.

Regarding the Kahr manual of arms really sucks. To,load a round, you must do it by inserting the mag WITH slide locked back, no just pulling the slid back and putting one in the chamber.

I, and many others, have experienced that a normal "slingshot" chambering technique works as well as anything. I believe Kahr was attempting to eliminate user error (like "riding the slide") in their manual.

I also found it very difficult to clean, the guide rod and spring are extremely hard to reassemble.

While everyone is slightly different, I have not found a modern semi-auto that is difficult to clean, disassemble, or reassemble. Original design 1911s are probably harder to D/A than anything, yet they are near universally accepted. Even by Glock fanboys.



In the end, though, I do understand. If I had an M&P that was unreliable, I would probably never own or recommend another M&P. Even if gun forums had a 1000:1 ratio of satisfied/dissatisfied M&P owners.

[Charlie98]

I hate rain on somebody’s parade, I have a CW Kahr that has been back the mother shop and is not reliable.
I finally gave up on it and bought a Ruger LCP that has been 100% reliable with any ammo I put in it.
Regarding the Kahr manual of arms really sucks. To,load a round, you must do it by inserting the mag WITH slide locked back, no just pulling the slid back and putting one in the chamber.
I also found it very difficult to clean, the guide rod and spring are extremely hard to reassemble.

Everyone makes a lemon or two, Kahr is not alone. I had a P45 with issues, and I almost bought a CW9 with a bad trigger... you had to almost pull it into the frame to get it to fire. Thankfully, I caught it while the dealer was filling out the forms and I axed him for a different pistol.

I don't have a problem loading my Kahrs... slide forward or slide back, either or, doesn't matter... to my pistols at least.

I don't find the Kahr any more or less hard to clean... but you are right about the recoil spring. The 9mm isn't so bad, but I put a new spring in my P45 when I had it and I almost never got that pistol back together!

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by batmann

I hate rain on somebody’s parade, I have a CW Kahr that has been back the mother shop and is not reliable.
I finally gave up on it and bought a Ruger LCP that has been 100% reliable with any ammo I put in it.
Regarding the Kahr manual of arms really sucks. To,load a round, you must do it by inserting the mag WITH slide locked back, no just pulling the slid back and putting one in the chamber.
I also found it very difficult to clean, the guide rod and spring are extremely hard to reassemble.

Do not fret about raining down on anyone's parade. I own a Kahr and have owned 4 lcp's over the years. I probably know more about the LCP's than the average owner. I have shot thousands of rounds through them. Yes, I am a dedicated Pico fan and Nano fan, but for sure the Kahr makes a very nice gun.
Why? first of all you cannot judge a gun by a internet poster that slams a gun because he had a failure. Break down a gun and look at all the parts. Compare them.
The Kahr uses a stainless steel. "machined from solid 416 stainless. Stainless steel magazines, that have a reputation for lasting indefinitely. Solid quality with quality Springs.
Look at the sights. Kahr has some of the best in class. I am a point and shoot shooter, but believe good sights are essential. And the Kahr has the ability to change out to night sights. The Poor LCP, well sorry but you are stuck there.
The chassis on the Kahr is stainless steel NOT aluminum as on the LCP. Why, because you want a gun to be able to last in the long run. I can show many pics of the LCP failures I had over the years. They simply are not built tough.
Just take down a Kahr and look at the individual parts and examine. The machining on the Kahr is first class. Yes, they are made with tight tolerances, and require a simple break in, but tight tolerances mean precision. Look at the take down pin of the Ruger vs Kahr. The LCP for instance has a very thin roll pin, prone to breaking or snapping in half or simply rolling out. The Kahr has a very beefy well designed piece that will last a life time and stainless steel.
And as far as my CW380 it will out shoot the LCP all day long. None of the harsh recoil or the notorious high five slap.

Here is a picture of the Kahr chassis. Notice the Stainless steel inserts on the rail. The Ruger has none. Kahr spent time an dmoney to place these on the parts of the rail, because that is where there is a lot of stress on the gun. And no need to worry as much about a cracked frame or grip which I can show you numerous pics of of LCp's shot of the years with cracked grips, spilt rails etc.

As far as "take down", No not as easy as the Pico or Nano, but certainly not hard. And as far as shooting the gun with a sling shot. Easy, Hey, no matter what gun you have, you train often and you become part of the gun until it becomes a second nature to operate, quickly until you can do it blindfolded with out even thinking'
I like the trigger on the Kahr. Actually not much difference between the LCP Gen 2. Both around 6 or 7 lbs of pull, yes longer than the glass break, triggers out there, but for gosh sake, I do not want a glass short crisp trigger on a small CCW gun. These are NOT target guns. They are quick action firearms. And I never ride a reset on any gun.

So as far as purchasing a Kahr, if you like the feel of the gun, shooting the gun, then you have a top notch firearm.

Notice the steel inserts below on the rails.



Look at the receivers of these three guns. Notice the beefier stainless steel build of the Beretta and the Kahr, vs the LCP at the bottom.





This gun should have had some reinforcement.



Just a example of some of the cracks in a cheaper made gun.

[Mosin44az]

Actually got that crack on my LCP. Ruger replaced the frame, and gave me a whole new top end to boot. Very happy to receive a “ new” LCP 2000 rounds in.

You say Kahr is built to last v. Ruger, that may be true, But if Ruger replaces the gun for free, as they did with me, that’s less of an issue. I no longer shoot it as much,and also have a Custom.

You also note that Kahrs are built tight,and that’s part of the issue I have with them. That’s why they have required owners to spend so much on ammo for breaking-in, that’s why there are so many loads that don’t work well in them. Kahrs just seem to be designed with less margin for error, and seem really to emphasize everything BUT max reliability in their design. For a carry gun, that’s a drawback in my book.

The ratio of posters claiming flawless function seems higher than in the past. Maybe they’ve improved. But to me their design has always seemed problematic, especially for the models that shorten the barrel or up the caliber from the original design.

[Sgt127]

I’ve owned quite a few Kahrs. The K9 May be my favorite. I prefer the all steel versions though I had a PM9 for years until a buddy really wanted it.

I’ve found Kahrs in 9mm to be the “sweet spot”. I owned a K40 and, it was never quite as reliable as I liked.

The only one I currently own is a T9. That is just an incredible gun. If I sent my hand to a gun manufacturer and said “build something around this hand...”

....they would send me a Kahr T9.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by Mosin44az

Actually got that crack on my LCP. Ruger replaced the frame, and gave me a whole new top end to boot. Very happy to receive a “ new” LCP 2000 rounds in.

You say Kahr is built to last v. Ruger, that may be true, But if Ruger replaces the gun for free, as they did with me, that’s less of an issue. I no longer shoot it as much,and also have a Custom.

You also note that Kahrs are built tight,and that’s part of the issue I have with them. That’s why they have required owners to spend so much on ammo for breaking-in, that’s why there are so many loads that don’t work well in them. Kahrs just seem to be designed with less margin for error, and seem really to emphasize everything BUT max reliability in their design. For a carry gun, that’s a drawback in my book.

The ratio of posters claiming flawless function seems higher than in the past. Maybe they’ve improved. But to me their design has always seemed problematic, especially for the models that shorten the barrel or up the caliber from the original design.

They DO NOT require folks to spend a lot of money to break. I broke mine in with mostly just a few simple steps at home and a few boxes of ammo. And even shooting a few boxes of ammo down range is not a lot of money. You want a nice gun that is something to be proud of or just something to break down and replace is two different things.

I do not care what gun it is. I always shoot quite a bit of ammo when I get a new gun. I want all my guns broken in. I have no problem with spending the money to get to know my guns.
My recent purchase of my Nano about three months ago is a example. I shot about 10-15 different kinds of ammo through the gun with different bullet weights. And I had a fun time doing it. About 2500 rds. I know that the gun will now eat any ammo and is dependable.

And you say your LCP about 2,000 rounds is when yours cracked. That is about when you have to start looking. Actually I advise looking for Cracks around 1500 rds. And do not shoot plus P.
No, the Kahr will not eat any ammo, but very easy to find the right ammo. It does not like long OAL cartridges but finding the right ammo easy and the gun runs great.
I noticed that you did not mention the sights either. Question, do you actually own one of these guns? I would highly suggest folks to actually shoot one and then compare.
As I said, I became a Beretta fan. I love Rugers and own many. However, there are some models that are just built better than others.
In fact you just reminded me of something. Years ago when I bought my first LCP, the Old Marine that ran my local LGS said of the LCP. "They are throw away guns". At first I was taken back. Now I know what he was talking about.
I am sorry to the OP, I know he was trying to find info on the Kahr, of which I provided what knowledge I have of them and actually owning one.
And as I have mentioned I love the Nano and the Pico over the Kahr. But still have a lot of fondness for the Kahr. To just invest in a little bit of time and a few boxes of ammo is a worthy investment that pays big rewards.
And by the way. do not think all LCP's run that great. Yes, many do, but being of the LCP forum for years, I saw all kinds of problems come down the pike. Still, I think they are for the most part reliable with most ammo.
And once again, the OP really needs to shoot all the firearms before he makes that purchase.

By the way, here is how I beak in a gun. You can take this advice or leave it, but it works for me.

I bring home the gun and clean it well.
I then take the Magazines and load to full capacity and let them "Set" for a few days. I find the better quality magazines have stronger springs and stronger springs if not set will produce more pressure when forcing the round up. Pressure leads to failure.

I will rack the slide of the gun a few times and then rack the slide and let the Recoil Springs "SET" for a few days.
Then I will take the slide and rack it over and over while watching TV.

When I first start shooting the gun, I will load a full magazine minus one round. I will do this for a while until the gun is breaking in.
All these parts are brand new and again tight tolerances. Let them work there legs.

Does it work. All I can say is my Two Pico's, my Nano and my Kahr are Running great. As well as all my other guns.
JMO

[HighValleyRanch]

I don't know if the following is true for all kahrs, but on mh K40:
If I have an empty magazine in, and the slide is open, it's a bear to release the slide using the slide stop lever. Feels like 20 pounds!
But with a LOADED magazine in place, I can flick the slide stop down, no problem, and chamber a round.

Same if I don't have the magazine in, and the slide is locked open, I can easily drop the slide using the slide stop lever. So it's only very hard with an empty magazine in place.

Also, without the magazine in place, the slide is very loosey goosey, but with even an empty magazine in place the slide tolerance tightens up. I know others have complained about the loose slide fit, but this gun is a tach driver none the less and never had any stoppages.

[5whiskey]

I don't know if the following is true for all kahrs, but on mh K40:
If I have an empty magazine in, and the slide is open, it's a bear to release the slide using the slide stop lever. Feels like 20 pounds!
But with a LOADED magazine in place, I can flick the slide stop down, no problem, and chamber a round.

What you describe is resistance from the magazine spring. It's that very resistance that locks the slide open in the first place... When out of rounds the mag follower (pushed up by the mag spring) is allowed to push the slide stop up and lock the slide open. When you try to push the slide stop down with an empty mag in place, you have to overcome this resistance. With a magazine with rounds in it, or the mag removed, that resistance isn't there so you don't have to overcome it.

All pistols will exhibit this trait,but ones with stronger mag springs will be much more noticeable. I don't like letting pistol slides slam home on an empty chamber anyway, so this is a moot issue for me.