224 Valk

[stagpanther]

Loaded up some 95 gr SMK's--but ran into a problem right away with the RCBS small base dies--the seat stem isn't configured for that high of an SD 224 bullet--so I was kinda stumped at first when seating bullets--and the more I turned the stem down--the longer the COL's were!! Turns out the bullet meplat was being squeezed and extruded a bit. I shot a few of the lower range charges figuring I probably would blow anything up--but the rest of em I'm going to pull.

I also took the PSA upper apart to see if there might be an alignment issue that I could perhaps fix--to get rid of the brass shavings. The receiver is not lapped--I was going to do it--but then noticed that there really isn't enough depth in the receiver collar to get a really good torque down of the barrel nut--PSA had filled the receiver collar with some kind of goo--actually two kinds of goo--the area at the extension ring looked like it had some kind of packing compound (looked just like grey lapping compound, actually). Unfortunately I didn't have a spare shim--and being kinda anxious to try out the 95 gr SMK's I put it back together sans lapping or shim.

After zeroing, here are two 90 gr federal fusions just to verify the gun was working OK.



I thought, OK looks good to try the SMK's:



As you can plainly see there are huge key-holing issues, even though these loads were running only 80 to 90 fps slower than the fusions.

So here are my over-all conclusions so far: if you're going to run bigger bullets--you have to run them hot to stabilize them. I'm guessing the 6.5 or possibly even 6 twist will be required. My guess is that you'll also need a 22" or better barrel to really get good, stable long range results. It's not that the 224 valk isn't up to the task--but it's a fairly narrow range of appropriate loads depending on how it's configured. An 18 to 20 inch barreled valk throwing a 75 to 80 gr bullet at 3000 fps is still a fine performing configuration.

[CarJunkieLS1]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Loaded up some 95 gr SMK's--but ran into a problem right away with the RCBS small base dies--the seat stem isn't configured for that high of an SD 224 bullet--so I was kinda stumped at first when seating bullets--and the more I turned the stem down--the longer the COL's were!! Turns out the bullet meplat was being squeezed and extruded a bit. I shot a few of the lower range charges figuring I probably would blow anything up--but the rest of em I'm going to pull.

I also took the PSA upper apart to see if there might be an alignment issue that I could perhaps fix--to get rid of the brass shavings. The receiver is not lapped--I was going to do it--but then noticed that there really isn't enough depth in the receiver collar to get a really good torque down of the barrel nut--PSA had filled the receiver collar with some kind of goo--actually two kinds of goo--the area at the extension ring looked like it had some kind of packing compound (looked just like grey lapping compound, actually). Unfortunately I didn't have a spare shim--and being kinda anxious to try out the 95 gr SMK's I put it back together sans lapping or shim.

After zeroing, here are two 90 gr federal fusions just to verify the gun was working OK.



I thought, OK looks good to try the SMK's:



As you can plainly see there are huge key-holing issues, even though these loads were running only 80 to 90 fps slower than the fusions.

So here are my over-all conclusions so far: if you're going to run bigger bullets--you have to run them hot to stabilize them. I'm guessing the 6.5 or possibly even 6 twist will be required. My guess is that you'll also need a 22" or better barrel to really get good, stable long range results. It's not that the 224 valk isn't up to the task--but it's a fairly narrow range of appropriate loads depending on how it's configured. An 18 to 20 inch barreled valk throwing a 75 to 80 gr bullet at 3000 fps is still a fine performing configuration.

Which is exactly why I'm not even gonna try the 90 or 95 SMK's. I have shot the 90 Fusion and they shoot well so for hunting those are what I'll use, for paper I'm shoot the 75 ELD and next I plan to move to the 80 ELD.

[stagpanther]

It's entirely possible that even the minor deformation of the bullet might have contributed to the destabilization. I did these loads with RL17, which gets compressed pretty quickly, I'll try the 2000MR for the bigger bullets next since it's more compact.

[stagpanther]

FYI--I called RCBS to find out if that had an improved seating stem for the newer Sierra bullets--no questions asked, other than where I take my mail--and they sent me one for free. Service like that deserves recognition.

[stagpanther]

Ahh--this will learn me to spout off before I have the facts--I just opened the package from RCBS--to find that what they had sent was a seat stem to be used as a form--I need to send the actual bullets for them to custom cut the stem. Not free, I might add.

[gshayd]

Well looking at the comments why do we have a .224 Valkyrie... a faster twist and heavier bullets than a .223 in a smaller rifle than the AR10. Which would be the .224 Valkyrie. Bullet spin is a product of twist rate and velocity.

[Road_Clam]

My competition Service Rifle AR , 20" 1-7" White Oak barrel and it shoots 80 gr smk/ Nosler CC's with sub moa precision at 200 meters as long as I have not had too much coffee !

[stagpanther]

Bullet spin is a product of twist rate and velocity.

And bullet sectional density.

[ed308]

ARP just added 22" Vlkyr 6.5 twist barrels with +2 rifle gas system to their inventory. Just order one.

http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/38016/53403

[stagpanther]

Exactly what I had in mind--I only hope Harrison extended the freebore a bit. It's an obvious limitation to the 224 projectile IMO--as the SD goes up, there's only a few places that extra mass can go--one is down into the case--the other is forward base of ogive and/or longer ogive. At some point that bullet is going to destabilize too easily. I just read his description--I personally have not succeeded with any of the 77+gr VLDs at magazine length, they have to be seated back in order not to jam in my experience so far.

[ed308]

He posted this on the 6.8 Forum...

Checking the distance to the lands- These measurements are just off the lands.

75ELD- 2.345
80 Berger VLD-2.295
90smk-2.325
95smk-2.360

[stagpanther]

Intersting--no way I can get that in my chamber with the 80 VLDs--already tried. I can get the cartridge to chamber OK--but the ogive base will constrict where the straight freebore runs out. While the cartridge will successfully fire and cycle--I'm not going to get consistency from my point of view going long from the seating. There is noticeable resistance when dry-cycling a cartridge--in a few instances the bullet was actually pulled from the case and left in the chamber when I pulled the cartridge out. Could be "an early tight chamber cut" in the case of my PSA barrel. I talked to Harrison yesterday and he told me he was going to be testing the new barrels imminently (for ideal loads, I expect). The cartridge is sort of a "split personailty"--do you want to be able to do high-power 90+ gr 1000 yd match shooting--or do you want a "general use high octane 224?" realistically, I probably will very rarely, if ever, be able to do 1000 yd stuff where I live in the east--but you know it's nice to you can if you want. So the vast majority of my shooting will probably be 3000+ fps 70 -80 gr <600 yds. I suspect that is true of most shooters, but it will be interesting to see how this goes since it's a given that 224 bullets in the heavier weights don't really exist in abundance--I strongly suspect we'll see some new entrants soon (I wouldn't be surprised if Hornady has a 90 something ELD in planning)

PS--just noticed the barrels are already sold out--probably should have ordered one while I had the chance. Look forward to reading your results Ed!

[ed308]

It will be awhile before I do any testing since getting ready to move at the end of this month. Downsizing to a smaller home is a lot of work. Hopefully by July I'll make it to the range.

I'm sure Harrison has more barrels to add his website. He frequently adds 10 barrels at a time as a way to control the flow of work. He's only posted 10 of those barrels so far. I suspect he's got 40 22" 6.5 Vlkyr barrels to add to the website at some point and certainly after he returns from being out of town.

[ed308]

H confirmed on another forum he has more of the 22" barrels. He just put 5 more up. But now down to 4.

The 18" barrels are due in August or September.

[stagpanther]

Just ordered one.

[ed308]

Good. You can screw things up so I don't have to! I got to find a 15" rail somewhere. Thinking a cheap Aero M Lok if I can still find one in stock.

[stagpanther]

Good. You can screw things up so I don't have to! I got to find a 15" rail somewhere. Thinking a cheap Aero M Lok if I can still find one in stock.

Yup--screwing things up is what I do best. I'm going to start looking for a good compensator, simple flash suppressor doesn't cut it for me--probably not a bad idea to go with simply a target crown but I think these come threaded no matter what.

[ed308]

Same as thread size as 6.8 (5/8x24). I'll use a 6.5 Aero Gamma muzzle break on mine. Used one on my 6.5 CM and like it. Does a good job reducing recoil without breaking the bank.

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/vg6-gamma-65.html

[stagpanther]

I've grown to really like Odin's crusherless tunable brake though it does need to be checked periodically for collar movement. I'll give their 5.56 a go for this barrel.

[ed308]

Is it 5/8x24 thread? I've not seen a 22 caliber brake with that thread pattern. That's why I'm going with a 6.5 brake for mine.

[stagpanther]

holy b-jeebers--good catch; I forgot to check the threading--I owe ya one! ; )

[ed308]

Didn't want you to screw it up! Don't forget you'll need at least a 14" hand guard to cover the GB. But you probably already know that since your .284 was a +2" gas system.

BTW: what dies would you recommend based on the problems you had with the RCBS die?

[stagpanther]

Didn't want you to screw it up! Don't forget you'll need at least a 14" hand guard to cover the GB. But you probably already know that since your .284 was a +2" gas system.

BTW: what dies would you recommend based on the problems you had with the RCBS die?

You going for match 1000 yd or "best I can" inside of 600? If your serious about long range heavy bullets--I'd look at a good competition die with matching seating stems for the bullets. I'm really a big hornady fan, even though I already have RCBS full-length small base dies, and would opt for new dimension dies that I believe they also make seating stems that match their ELD/amax profiles up to 80 grs. I'm going to try a little experiment (yes, I can screw it up first) and see if I can polish my existing seat stem to accommodate the bigger matchkings and vlds.

The PSA upper came with a 15" rail--do I'll recycle it.

[ed308]

I've got dies from just about every brand, but prefer Redding. Hornady may be the way to go for this caliber. Will probably do competition dies. No rush since I can buy ammo to play with at first. But I'll eventually reload for it since I've got a bulk case of Nosler Custom Comp 80 gr .224 bullets to blast through.

Just check my prior orders. I have a 15" Aero hand guard on the same upper I was planning to swap out the the barrel. So my build will be with a Six8 receiver set. Too bad it won't take a cut out PRI mag. That cut out mag would be perfect for the long bullets available for this caliber uses. Might consider doing a new build with some spare receiver sets I have on hand.

[stagpanther]

That 2.3 or longer COL stuff doesn't look right to me--but then again I haven't done much with the cartridge so I don't know. Is that what people on the 6.8 forum say they are getting too? I don't have any of the 80 gr CC's--but I do have some of the 77's

Why won't the Aero lower work with the cavity back mag? It's just another 6.8 mag as far as the outside dimensions are concerned.