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Old September 20, 2017, 06:01 PM   #1
0DARK30
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New poster - reloading for .284 win model 100

Hi all, just thought i would speak up about why I am here and see what shakes loose. A few years ago an acquaintance at work brought in a trunk full of rifles and said he needed money and was selling some of his dad's collection he inherited. I bought 3, and one of them was a pristine 284 win model 100, post 64. Darn near flawless. Extra mag still in box, a few boxes of ammo to boot. Sure enough, i went to my lgs and took the last 3 boxes of winchester 284 I would ever see on the shelves. I learned more later, discontinued ammo etc, then wildcatters and f class shooters. Turns out I need ot use this as a deer rifle or buy something else, and I have other things on my mind.

Long story short, I am now a newby reloader (soon to be). I came by a lee loadmaster with many extras. I am patient and a pretty fair tinkerer. I remember most of my statics and strength of materials concepts form college. What I am trying to do is find an accurate and mild load good for about 150yd max whitetail. I am starting with hodgdon 4895 and sierra 140gr game kings in once fired winchester brass and win lr primers. Waiting on a few more parts to get started, thought I would join this forum.

If any of you have used this setup for hunting or pleasure I would appreciate any direction you could come up with concerning getting the best I can from this oddball semi auto.

Thank you all in advance. I have some experience with eastern bloc rifles and plenty of woodworking skills, hope I can offer something in return.

zdt
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Old September 20, 2017, 07:26 PM   #2
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The Model 100 was only in production for about 12 years and they are not common.

It was produced less than that in the 284, which if in factory condition, can be a rare collectors piece. I am thinking the 284 was introduced in the 100 along 1963 or 64. This means no recoil pad as Winchester never produced one with a recoil pad.

Two of my Buds had 88s in 284, another in 243, and one had a 100 in 284. It was hard to shoot due to the narrow butt stock and fit.

If I remember correctly from looking at my notes from yesteryear, we used the Speer 145 gr Hot Cor with H4831. This was before IMR came out with it.

In more recent times, the 284 has become much more common, as you have learned.

I never loaded or shot anything in the H4895 burn rate in the 284.

Some people say the Model 100 can be a real shooter and some have had problems with them.

I have seen Model 100s in 284 Win. running in the $1,000 range as collectors.
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Old September 20, 2017, 09:52 PM   #3
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I just rebarreled a commercial Mauser action with an E.R. Shaw 24", in 284 Win.

I contacted Sierra with the same powder, bullet combo your planning on using.
They recommended 44.0 gr. as a good start point. With max being 46.1gr.

I called due to Hodgdon's start load was 46.5 with a 139gr. Hornady.
I know, different bullets...

Also trying H414, RL17, PP2000, and IMR 4451.
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Old September 21, 2017, 10:51 AM   #4
old roper
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You might check as Win had recall on 100/88. Back before I moved to Co 1977, I live Ca and shot Win 100/284 couple years.

That rifle got me interest in 284 and I've had couple build. As you read lot of interest and my latest 284 is on long action with 27" barrel and long throated.

The Browning Safari bolt action was chamber in 284, Mel Forbes made bolt action 284 bullet seated out to 3.000" and Ruger chambered 284 in model 77.

I don't remember what I loaded in that 100/284 but it wasn't H-4895. I used that for some of my varmint rifles back then.

You might call Sierra and they should be able give you load for that rifle.

Well good luck
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Old September 21, 2017, 12:06 PM   #5
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"...a few boxes of ammo to boot..." That's a very good thing. No .284 Win ammo loaded by anybody these days. Limited production only by Winchester, according to Midway. Quality Cartridge makes brass, but it appears not at this time. $34.97 per 20 too.
Anyway, loading for a Win 100 is no different than any other semi-auto. You must check case lengths(trim, chamfer and deburr as required only), Full Length(FL) resize every time and watch the OAL(measured from the bullet point to the flat of the case. No ogives involved). Other than that it's no different than loading any other cartridge.
Load data is not an issue. Lots at Hodgdon's site. Neither are 7mm bullets.
Use the 139 grain H4895 data. One grain won't matter.
A .free downloadable pdf manual is here. http://stevespages.com/pdf/winchester_100.pdf
This is the text of the actual 1990 recall. Came from a very reliable source too. Contact Winchester's Customer Service and ask 'em about it. They've changed owners since then. http://www.winchesterguns.com/support.html

WINCHESTER MODEL 100 FIRING PIN RECALL - A notice dated 7-1990 relates the following

“PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING AND REPLACEMENT NOTICE. Attention owners of Winchester model 100 rifles and carbines please read this notice. In July of 1990 the following product safety warning was issued by Winchester. It has come to our attention that the firing pin in the Winchester Model 100 Rifle or Carbine may break due to use and metal fatigue and become lodged in the breech bolt face. If this occurs, the firearm may fire before the action is locked causing severe damage to the firearm and possibly injury or death to the shooter and bystander.

WARNING DO NOT SHOOT YOUR WINCHESTER MODEL 100 RIFLE OR CARBINE. Repair and replacement. A new firing pin has been designed to replace the firing pin originally made for the Winchester Model 100 Rifle and Carbine. The new firing pins will be available in April 1991. If you own a Winchester Model 100 Rifle or Carbine, please send your firearm to one of the authorized Winchester Model 100 Firing Pin Replacement Centers indicated below. Your Winchester Model 100 firearm will be inspected, the firing pin replaced and tested and the firearm returned to you. The inspection, replacement/testing and return postage will be accomplished at no cost to you. If other repair or maintenance work is authorized by you to be performed on the firearm when the firing pin is replaced, such work shall be at your cost.”
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Old September 24, 2017, 08:08 AM   #6
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Thank you all

Will be trying few loads hopefully next weekend, waiting on my scale to come to check these volume-metered powder drops.
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Old September 26, 2017, 08:19 PM   #7
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T,
So I recognize from some cursory research that semi autos should be fed reloads only if they are full length resized. I also recognize that fire forming seems to make sense. Why not use fire formed brass in my SA rifle, if my rifle formed it? I bowed to the masses so to speak and ordered a new set of Lee dies for full length forming, and a factory crimp die. I had a Bair neck sizer and a Bair seater I may find use for one day, as I aspire to embrace a nice bolt action when conditions prove favorable.

Unless it is unsafe somehow, or otherwise strongly objectionable through empirical datum, I am inclined to rethink not using neck sized only brass in my rifle.

Roper,
I ordered a comprehensive cartridge guide with many dozens of loadings for 284 win. A few years ago I saw a gorgeous Winchester Safari in 284 Win, what a beauty. I will likely find a Mark X or other decent receiver and have a nice barrel mated to it and a crisp trigger. I hope to learn enough in a few year's time to specify something that I can use to both ethically hunt and punch paper with success.

Std7mag,
I have heard that the Mauser action makes a great .284 win shooter. I think the Mark x I am reading about is a similar design. Shaw barrels sound like winners too lol. I can't wait to get deeper into this, but I will be patient and try to be safe and reasonable in my expectations. Salvaging this beauty mod 100 into a usable hunter is the first task though, hopefully I will get to play more later.

Dufus,
Mine has no recoil pad, and I am told the firing pin has not been changed. I am keeping this rifle very clean and I hunt alone with a single round in the magazine. Should be ok. I cannot bear to send it off or put it in the shop for several months, then wrangle someone else into paying for it. Maybe in a few years I can retire it into the safe but for another several years I need to use it.

If I read the books right, I should first find a proper bullet weight by observing groups, then build a charge to suit. With much testing and selling of incomplete boxes of 7mm I imagine... . Hopefully I can head off a lot of wasted bullets and quickly find compatible loadings for this particular rifle through listening to those who have loaded for quite similar rilfles.
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Old September 29, 2017, 08:56 AM   #8
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Hmm. For bullets between 130gr to 160gr, IMR4350 or IMR4831 will work well. You have many bullets to choose from for load development. Good luck.
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Old September 29, 2017, 01:42 PM   #9
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The Win 88/100 has 1/10 twist barrel.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...inchester.html
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Old September 30, 2017, 03:23 AM   #10
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Roper I just got my .284 load book in, and for my uses there sure are a lot of choices. My impulse to try out the H4895 was not an altogether bad guess. IMR489 is only marginally slower looking at the burn rate charts, though it seems to require more powder to duplicate the H pressures.... . I have much to learn, and it seems that this caliber might be really fun to look into for years to come. I wish the load book was more up to date, but there is a lot more information out there if you dig for it.

I read through the link you sent several weeks back and found it informative. Thanks for suggesting it.
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Old September 30, 2017, 07:53 AM   #11
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0DARK30, I never did find any reloading data that used Win 100. Lyman used 88 then later on they used 88/Universal Receiver when they test new powder and Sierra used bolt action.

When Nosler added 284 in their manual it was bolt action. If you took Nosler 140gr AB you have appr 1/4" in the case body @ 2.800". You will do better to look at some flat base bullet. Lyman #45/1970 used Rem 150gr/165gr and one I had I used Rem 140gr/150gr both FB bullets.

You need to look at burn rate also load density with that case. If you look at Hodgdon data for 284 you see OAL varies from 2.800" all the way up to 2.990" and they do list compressed load.

Your going to get better load density with IMR-4895/4064,H-4895 and your going to be slower (FPS) than using H-4350/IMR-4350 so little trade off.

I'm not sure 100 be good rifle to learn target shooting with vs something like bolt action 7-08. Out side of cases your going to spend same shooting 284 as 7-08.
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Old October 4, 2017, 08:52 PM   #12
0DARK30
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Roper thank you again for your time, and for your service.

I will do a chamber cast and determine my max oal. Again i am not trying to push, but I would like to know. 2.80 will fit in my mag, and I am good with that. I am still learning about case capacity and relationships to other aspects of a loading. I will verify it all with my own research before pulling any triggers. As well, i have seen many loadings with a powder selection different than my first choice. I will definitely try a few other powders and try to find the most accurate load for my distance/purpose.

I will certainly mull over all of these things, and make more comparisons and studies.

Thank you again.

I wish I had more time!
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Old September 2, 2019, 09:31 PM   #13
0DARK30
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How strange life works, since this thread I have indeed started loading, but not for the 284. I did a few runs of 45acp to get warmed up and wound up needing to change some internals to get the loads to work properly. Some distractions turned into a year of inattention, and in the interim I have moved to another city and lo and behold factory 284 is available I a have stocked about 9 boxes up.

I learned that a progressive press does turn out useable loads, but I personally feel a single stage is going to be my go to for more powerful and ultimately more meticulously prepared rifle ammo. I had to rebuild the plate on my press and all of the learning and waiting on parts, research etc. took time. Now I have ordered a hand press and will use this new win brass (once fired) and try again to wring what I can out of this rifle for elk here in beautiful Washington state. I will now continue on the path I started some 699 days ago (according to the necro-thread warning). Thank all of you again for your help so far.
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Old September 3, 2019, 04:40 PM   #14
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I do all my reloading on an old Lyman Spartan single-stage press. Certainly there are, "better", presses than this..... But this is simple and it works well for me. It makes good ammo, though certainly not fast enough for some of the high-volume shooters among us. It can be refreshing not to have so many, "bells-and-whistles", to keep track of.
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Old September 4, 2019, 02:11 AM   #15
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Odark30,
Since we've last talked, i've put a few hundred rounds down the barrel.
Being as mine is a Mark X action, as you said about the other year, i'm pushing a little more pressure that you may want to.

Sweet spot seems to be 150gr bullets. Nosler Ballistic Tips, Hornady ELDX, and the Nosler ABLR are all shooting well from it. Along with my most used 154gr Hornady SST's.

Powders seem to be best thus far are RL19, RL22, IMR 4831, Norma MRP, and Alliant PP4000. ( note, there is ZERO load data for the PP4000).
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Old December 7, 2019, 01:36 PM   #16
0DARK30
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things change...

So I decided to forego taking the model 100 out, i found what appears to be a decent bolt gun on gunbroker and i bought it. It is a small ring mauser with what specs out to be a 24” shilen #3 barrel, in 284. Or similar. 1:9 twist using a cleaning rod and brush. i used the lands to seat a factory 150 grain bullet, and it looks like the jump is going to be way long using factory coal measurements, im going to experiment a bit here but long story short i can use the eld heavy bullets if accuracy stays reasonable.

I have blair dies, lee hand press. the neck sizer decapper gives me fits trying to reopen the press to extract the case. have to smack the joint down on the bench to get it open and that seems excessive. There is free travel before the lockup occurs, pretty much at the 90 degree point in the handles travel towards open. I have a lee full size case sizer but on a hand press... . I made it through 22 cases and im a little worried i may have blown out my neck concentricity. Either way i will forge ahead and fire form these cases knowing i will get better results next batch.

Does anyone else have blair decapper/sizer dies? I have read that they are fine just got pushed out of the market. I may have not set up the die properly, but the pressure on the downward stroke is so minimal, i cant figure out why the return stroke is so bound up.... . Using Lee #2 plate as recommended by lee.. . .

was going to try some 5% reduced rl19 recipes w sierra match kings 145 gr just to start with. Found 8 boxes of win factory 150 gr, but they are jumping a quarter inch to hit the lands. Seems a bit long to this rookie....
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Old December 7, 2019, 04:48 PM   #17
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If you are using Lee Lube, it is effective but not as slick as some of the others. Redding's Imperial Sizing was is pretty universally loved, though I've found Hornady Unique lube is a less expensive smear-on lube that also works well. If you let the Lee lube dry on the cases, you can dip a finger into some STP and put that over top of it and will have the same lubrication improvement.

A hand press is a great tool to take to the range in your load development box, but doing large numbers of rifle cases on one is quite a chore. Even the inexpensive Lee Challenger press is a significant improvement in ease of operation. You'll find any O-press is less prone to pulling necks off-axis that a C-press, but the simplest improvement comes from removing the neck expander and using a Lyman M type expander die instead, pressing it into the case mouth just far enough to create a slight step in the case mouth that allows the bullets to sit straight upright.

Since you now have the Mauser, you can go to neck sizing-only. The inexpensive Lee Collet Die will size necks without adding any concentricity issues, as this video shows, but would be hard to use with a hand press, effort-wise.

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone explained that semi-autos generally need cases resized at least until the shoulder measures 0.002" closer to the head. The sizing die not only sets that dimension but also narrows the case a bit which makes rapid feeding much less likely to hang up trying to enter the chamber. In floating firing pin military guns, such a hang-up at the wrong moment can offer enough resistance to allow a slamfire or worse, and out-of-battery firing of the cartridge (which usually destroys the gunstock and a number of parts and puts the shooter in danger). Hunters often don't trust the neck-sized only cases completely in a bolt gun that is magazine-fed, either, fearing possible interference with quickly chambering a follow-up shot.
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Old December 8, 2019, 12:26 AM   #18
0DARK30
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Thanks Nick Ill take all that down. As I havent had much outlay to get where I am, I can try different paths and ease into this thing. Ive been using mostly lee stuff so far, I was looking at a challenger actually. Eventually I imagine ill try doing rifle in my loadmaster. Im not there yet lol.

I charged cases and seated bullets in that run of 20 i starred, i was surprised at the apparent tension considering i did neck sizing. I was using lee lube, just a smidge. It did not help the tight spot though. The seating went much more smoothly. Got good consistency. Stoked to fire my first reload!
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Old December 8, 2019, 10:04 AM   #19
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Yeah, looking back the one thing i would have done different is getting a reamer with a shorter throat from PTG.
The original 284 has a long throat due to it being factory chambered in the Model 88 and Model 100. An old trick to help keep the pressures down in lever, semi-auto, and single shot rifles whose actions are not quite as strong as a bolt action.
Due to these actions the SAAMI spec pressures are set at 56,000 psi. CIP from Europe set theirs at 63,817 psi.

I've also run into neck sizing issues with different manufacturer neck sizing dies. Was bad enough that i checked the outside neck dimensions from my 7mm-08 and my 7mm Rem Mag and opened up the neck on my 284 dies.
I feel like the manufacturers are just making 6.5-284 dies and just claiming 284.
I know if you get the Lee 284 case length gage, you get 6.5-284 stamped right on it.

You never did say, or i missed it, what bullets and powder you ended up with.
From experience, don't bother with the 140gr. Berger VLD bullets. The throat is just waaayyy to long!
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Old December 8, 2019, 02:37 PM   #20
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Glad you got bolt action 284 and I haven't used Blair dies. I had my 284 build long action so I can seat out to 3.300" max and I gained case capacity.

this is something to read.

https://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html
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Old December 12, 2019, 09:24 AM   #21
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For what it's worth, proper full length sizing bottleneck cases has produced best accuracy for decades.

One exception is with rifles whose bolt face is not squared up wherein new cases typically produce best accuracy.
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