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Old November 1, 2019, 06:27 PM   #1
HighValleyRanch
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.45 super anyone?

I've decided to configure my Glock 21c to .45 super instead of a 10mm conversion. Mainly because I will still be able to shoot .45acp in the same barrel and I have a Kahr p45 that I will shoot some .45 +P loads in.

I just got a Stormlake fully supported black oxide barrel on GT, and will purchase some .45 super starline brass online. The new barrel will also allow me to shoot some lead target reloads I already have.

Plans are to get some flat nose hardcast 255 grain bullets and start my journey from there.

Any advice is welcomed from those who have already gone this route.

Also am seriously considering chopping the glock 21 to 30 size, since I live in a ten round limit state and the ten round 30 magazine will be close to a glock 19 size grip length. I've done chops on a number of glocks alreay, so not a problem.
My last Glock 20 project:
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Old November 2, 2019, 02:25 AM   #2
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Well 45 Super believe it or not isn't a whole lot more pressure than +P ammo 23k psi 45 ACP +P, 28/29k psi 45 Super, 40k psi 460 Rowland, the real difference is slide velocity.
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Old November 2, 2019, 04:49 AM   #3
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Super

I did the .45 Super in my 1911. The only change to the gun was 28lb. recoil spring.
I have a couple of boxes of loaded ammo on the shelf. I have not shot it in a while. Ultimately, i preferred the .400 CorBon as a heavier duty alternate. Change the barrel and spring and I am good to go.
I don’t use that one much either.
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Old November 2, 2019, 07:35 AM   #4
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I have been playing with 45 super in my S&W 4506. The gun is a tank and I have no concerns with the excessive pressure. So far my favorite powder has been Longshot.

There is an extensive thread on Glocktalk about 45 super in glocks. I would start there.
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Old November 2, 2019, 07:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
I did the .45 Super in my 1911. The only change to the gun was 28lb. recoil spring.
Good grief...how in hell do you rack the slide on that monster? I've got a .40 S&W Browning Hi-Power that's languishing in the safe for just that reason...you gotta get a death grip on the slide to rack it! By comparison, my Ruger and Colt Commanders are kitty-cats in .45 ACP. Rod
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Old November 2, 2019, 05:11 PM   #6
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I've got my eyes on a couple of 4506s for just this reason (to shoot 45 Super). But, I'm so surprised you're enjoying Longshot!! Other than 800X I think it's the only powder I've sworn never to use again in anything.

I never found any 45 Super loads back long ago when I was looking for them, but it may be time to look again a little harder. I'd hope for something in AA 5 or 7 maybe.
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Old November 3, 2019, 03:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgael View Post
I did the .45 Super in my 1911. The only change to the gun was 28lb. recoil spring.
I have a couple of boxes of loaded ammo on the shelf. I have not shot it in a while. Ultimately, i preferred the .400 CorBon as a heavier duty alternate. Change the barrel and spring and I am good to go.
I don’t use that one much either.
Pete
28 lb. spring?, at the most you would need a 22-24 lb. spring, in my SR1911CMD I will be using a 20-22 lb. spring, the 20 lb. will be for 400 Cor-Bon and "light" 45 Super.
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Old November 3, 2019, 08:46 AM   #8
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Slowing the slide velocity in recoil is necessary, but doubling slide velocity going the other way is every bit as harmful.
There are simple mods to the 1911 that allow reasonable recoil spring rates.
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Old November 3, 2019, 08:59 AM   #9
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Heck yeah 45 Super. I have found this recipe for success in converting 1911's to 45 super
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=5966

Luckily I actualy found a Springfield that left the factory as 45Super not many of them made. The one in the video is not mine but I found one at an estate sale brand new with actual 45 super brass and all. I wish I knew the story for it as it was brand new tages never removed from it and the starline brass still sealed in the bag. Someone was intent on shooting it but never got around to it I guess.
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Old November 3, 2019, 10:53 AM   #10
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I was very interested in .45 Super/.45 SMC for awhile, but in a rather ironic twist, the same folks who attempt to promote the .45 Super by offering conversions managed to talk me out of it.
Seriously, in their desperate attempt to convince readers that only they were qualified to convert a .45 ACP chambered firearm to safely shoot .45 Super and that a DIY job was likely to result in damage to the firearm as well as personal injury to the shooter, they only managed to convince me that a cartridge with such a slim margin for error wasn't something that I would be comfortable shooting.

That said, if I were going to dabble with .45 Super, then I would cut out the middleman and buy a Heckler & Koch USP45 Elite, an extremely durable .45 caliber semiautomatic pistol which can safely shoot .45 Super without the need for any aftermarket modifications.
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Old November 3, 2019, 12:51 PM   #11
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What is the difference in pressure between a .45 super and 10mm?
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Old November 3, 2019, 02:26 PM   #12
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It's highly suggested you buy as much brass as you can and dies, even if you do not reload, so you will not be left with a firearm you can't shoot. The assorted MBA's running the firearms companies think nothing of discontinuing stuff with no regard for their existing customers.
Midway shows the Super as being loaded by only 2 companies. Buffalo Bore and Underwood. Starting at about $1 per shot.
Starline is the only source of brass. $28.99 per 100 at Midway. $26.99 per 100 at Graf's.
The Super runs at considerably less pressure than the 10mm. The 10mm runs at a max of 37,500 PSI. The Super at around 28,000 PSI. SAAMI doesn't have any specs for the Super at all. The .45 +P runs at 23,000 PSI vs 21,000 PSI for the ACP.
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
"...I've got a .40 S&W Browning Hi-Power..." Have a .41 AE barrel in my Inglis BHP with an recommended(at the time) 18 pound spring(I think. I'd have to look. Still have the gun rag article.). The 2 cartridges run at the same SAAMI Max pressures of 35,000 PSI. I think it needs something a bit heavier though. I tend to limp wrist the thing using 210 grain bullets. Oh and I bought 500 cases when I bought the barrel or I'd have no ammo at all.
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Old November 3, 2019, 02:54 PM   #13
HighValleyRanch
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Quote:
Seriously, in their desperate attempt to convince readers that only they were qualified to convert a .45 ACP chambered firearm to safely shoot .45 Super and that a DIY job was likely to result in damage to the firearm as well as personal injury to the shooter, they only managed to convince me that a cartridge with such a slim margin for error wasn't something that I would be comfortable shooting.
So since the glock 20 and 21 are built on the same frame, what is the danger with the glock 21 not being able to handle lower pressure than 10mm? With a fully supported chamber of course and super brass?
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Old November 4, 2019, 05:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
So since the glock 20 and 21 are built on the same frame, what is the danger with the glock 21 not being able to handle lower pressure than 10mm? With a fully supported chamber of course and super brass?
It the slide velocity that's the real issue, 45 Super operates at 28k psi, I wouldn't recommend shooting it in a Aluminum frame 1911, but any steel frame should be GTG.
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Old November 4, 2019, 05:56 AM   #15
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Well those folks are trying to sell you something there Forte S+W, really all that is needed is a stronger recoil spring, a flat bottom firing pin stop, and possibly a stronger firing pin spring, and even the flat firing pin stop is somewhat debatable. Now if you're talking about a 460 Rowland conversation, yeah that will require a 460 compensated barrel.
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Old November 4, 2019, 07:36 AM   #16
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What is the difference in pressure between a .45 super and 10mm?
https://www.google.com/

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Old November 4, 2019, 08:03 AM   #17
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"After comparing all the information, ballistic testing and field experience I could obtain I have concluded that my pistol of choice when afield in my home state of Utah will be a Glock 21 loaded with 255 grain hard cast lead flat point .45 Super ammunition. A second magazine loaded with the same ammunition and a third magazine loaded with CCI .45 ACP shot shells should serve me well in a variety of outdoor emergencies."

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Old November 4, 2019, 02:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermane_1
Well those folks are trying to sell you something there Forte S+W, really all that is needed is a stronger recoil spring, a flat bottom firing pin stop, and possibly a stronger firing pin spring, and even the flat firing pin stop is somewhat debatable. Now if you're talking about a 460 Rowland conversation, yeah that will require a 460 compensated barrel.
Obviously, but it made me lose interest regardless, especially when it was parroted by a number of articles on the .45 Super as well as many other folks who had already paid for such conversions.

Furthermore, there was a lot of debate among do-it-yourselfers regarding which parts actually needed to be replaced, what the specifications on said parts were, and even which firearms could actually withstand firing .45 Super with modifications. Some folks say you need several changes; guide rod, recoil spring, extractor, ramped barrel with full chamber support, firing pin spring, frame-buffer, etc while others say that all you need is a heavier recoil spring. Some folks say you need really heavy springs while others say you only need a slightly heavier spring than stock. Some folks say that only certain brands of 1911 are built strong enough to handle .45 Super while others say that you can modify anything besides a Khyber Pass 1911 to safely shoot .45 Super. Heck, I once read an article in which the author claimed that .45 SMC (basically an unlicensed .45 Super) out of ANY +P rated 1911 sans modifications.

Personally, I don't like wading through muddy waters while folks on both sides standing on dry land argue about how safe it is to do so. In other words, I wouldn't have any fun shooting .45 Super with doubts regarding whether it's safe for me to do so with the amount of mods I've made, nor would I enjoy shooting .45 Super if I paid through the nose for the extensive mods some claim are necessary, just to eliminate any margin for safety.

So yeah, I'd rather just buy a H&K USP45 Elite if I were dead set on shooting .45 Super, but right now in my life I lack the time and money to shoot even what I already have all the often, much less invest in an all-new firearm with specialty ammo.
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Old November 7, 2019, 11:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgael View Post
I did the .45 Super in my 1911. The only change to the gun was 28lb. recoil spring.
I have a couple of boxes of loaded ammo on the shelf. I have not shot it in a while. Ultimately, i preferred the .400 CorBon as a heavier duty alternate. Change the barrel and spring and I am good to go.
I don’t use that one much either.
Pete
I really liked the idea of .400 Corbon but I was too late to the party. It's a shame it didn't get more traction. I also like .357 Sig and while not as obscure, it seems to be heading that way.

The thing I like about .45 Super is that it can be done with only slight modification. The question seems to be just how much modification is needed, or wanted.
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Old November 8, 2019, 06:36 AM   #20
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Is the .45 Super more or less than the .45 Mag?

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Old November 10, 2019, 07:11 PM   #21
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I played around with it for a while, have lots of data for it using 800x, Longshot, Power Pistol and maybe a few others. I used a Gen4 Glock 21 then dropped in a KKM 4 port compensated barrel.

A little into it had the throat of the barrel extended a bit because I wanted to run .452" revolver style bullets that had more of a blunt nose and they would touch the rifling causing me to have to load them to a shorter OAL.

But from the nearly 5" KKM G21 Gen4 I've ran as light as a 185gr @ 1600+ fps on up to 300gr hardcast @ 1150fps and a loads in between. The comp is needed at those levels because at that point, it's basically a 460 Rowland. The 460 isn't longer overall, it just uses longer brass so it won't accidentally fire in an unsupported 45 ACP gun, otherwise you can load 45 Super to 460 specs, heck some guys used .45 ACP brass to get similar results, but I'm not that adventurous. I used new Starline .45 Super brass and the KKM barrel had excellent case support.

Ultimately the upper end stuff, I felt, was being a bit rough on the guns frame. I mean many of the loads ranged from 800 to 1000 ft-lbs with heavy bullets, which I don't think the Glock was ever really intended for. The heavy loads were fun to see what the .45 Super can do, but overall I think mid-range .45 Super makes the most sense. It's easier on the gun, on the shooter and better socially, like a 250gr Gold Dot @ 1100-1150 fps.


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Old November 15, 2019, 01:42 PM   #22
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Glock 21 as 30, modified for Super

Hi all,

I am new to the forum.

My story: due to financial limitations and a significant other who is somewhat "anti", I am limited to 1 gun: 1 handgun, 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, that is.

In all fairness to my wonderful and understanding significant other, I have many hobbies (bicycling, archery, motorcycles) so a limit is not unreasonable.

Anyway my handgun has to do it all and as such, it is a compromise. It has to be affordable to shoot and practice with, suitable for competition, home defense and conceal carry. It also has to be legal for hunting in Colorado where I reside, and CO requires 550 ft-lbs of energy at 50 yards for big game hand gun hunting.

My compromise, do-it-all handgun is a 3rd Generation Glock 21 modified for 45 Super / .450 SMC. Since I use this as my everyday CCW gun and I work in an environment where no printing is a must, I chopped the gun to a Glock 30 size. The beauty of this is that the slide and barrel are still 4.6" length, legal for hunting in CO (4" barrel minimum) and suitable for competition.

Double Tap 450 SMC 230 grainers give me around 650 ft-lbs at the muzzle and can be handled without a comp (same energy as hot loaded 10mm rounds), which translates into the required 550 ft-lbs at 50 yards for CO hunting. And since my limitation to 1 handgun precludes me from owning a 454 Casull, 13 rds of 45 Super (again, similar to 10mm) may help if I am ever in a situation to meet a bear spray resistant brownie.



Using X-grips mag sleeves, the gun can be used with the original 13 rd mag and reverts back to the full size Glock 21 configuration:




Years ago I installed a Cominolli thumb safety, and I carry the gun AIWB daily with no troubles. I practice weekly, 100+ rounds of both regular .45 ACP and DoubleTap 45 Super 230 grainers. I've put 1000s of rounds through it in the last few years, with not 1 hiccup. In addition I installed "the gadget" for reholstering with my thumb on the back plate as if it was a hammer on a DA/SA.



Here is AIWB reholstering process:
a) bending backwards, hip thrust forwards, right leg back and a holster that does not deform (Garrett Silent Thunder) = no self muzzling.
b) Cominolli safety on and/or thumb pressing on "the gadget" = no negligent discharge (even if trigger is being actuated somehow)
a) + b) = no Glock leg

Negligent discharge + a) = no Glock leg
Self muzzling + b) = no Glock leg

Probability of Glock leg =
Chance of: depressing the trigger + also not doing a) + also not doing b) = 0.00000000001 %
The only way it could be lower is with no round in the chamber.

Also chance of: needing to fire a shot + not disengaging thumb safety = chance of doing so with a 1911 = (almost) chance of forgetting to depress the trigger itself.




Overall I am extremely happy, feel safe carrying AIWB with one in the chamber, and I am 100% confident in the reliability of this set-up.
The Cominolli safety works exactly as a 1911 or a CZ, or H&K safety. "The Gadget" allows me to reholster with a thumb on the back plate which prevents the gun from firing EVEN IF the thumb safety was disengaged, and the trigger was being depressed: exactly like reholstering a DA de-cocked pistol with a thumb pressing down on the hammer.

Again, let me re-state that this setup has been in my gun for years, and after 1000s of rounds of 45 ACP and 45 Super fired, it has been 100% reliable.

All modifications done by my good friend Sean at SOVEREIGN ARMORY in Colorado:

https://www.sovereignarmory.com/


My one and only handgun is also my one and only love and I don't lust for any other : )

----------------------------------------
Note: People will reproach me for the $ spent and the modifications done to the "perfect" Glock, instead of buying a pistol designed and built from the get go with the features I desire. The answer is that such a pistol does not exist. H&K and Sig and CZ offer pistols in 45 ACP with a hammer and thumb safety, but ammo capacity is much less and also the ability to go from a compact size for concealement to a full size format is not there.

Remember that the whole reason for this project was the limitation to ONE handgun, and the necessity to make this one pistol be a do-it-all tool.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg G21 w 9 rounds.jpg (72.8 KB, 868 views)
File Type: jpg Glock 21 with 13 rounder.jpg (42.2 KB, 757 views)
File Type: jpg G21 with +2 extension.jpg (72.9 KB, 319 views)

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Old November 15, 2019, 01:48 PM   #23
Pistoler0
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45 Super I should add one thing

I should add one thing to my previous post:

in order for my 45 Super conversion to work reliably with both 45 ACP 230 grainers and Double Tap 45 Super 230 grainers, I had to:

1) Use a heavy tungsten spring rod and 22lbs recoil spring
2) I had to double spring the 13 round ammo mag I use for 45 super. The smaller mags seem (10 and 9 rounders) seem to work fine with both kinds of ammo.
3) The gun was fitted with a KKM barrel which has a fully supported chamber.

Double springing means a reduction of 2 rounds. So for 45 Super use in the woods or hunting, I attached a +2 round mag extension to the 13 round mag, then double springed it, and that way I have a 13 rds mag suitable for 45 Super and predator defense in the woods.

Here is the Glock with the +2 extension that allows for double mag spring and thus 13 rds of 45 Super for woods carry:



For EDC I don't feel the extra power of the super is needed, and so I carry regular 45 ACP 230 gr ammo in a 9 rds magazine that allows me to conceal my ONE and ONLY perfectly.

Cheers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg thumb on gadget for reholster.jpg (56.9 KB, 328 views)
File Type: jpg AIWB reholster thumb on gadget.jpg (70.3 KB, 575 views)

Last edited by Pistoler0; November 15, 2019 at 03:21 PM.
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Old November 15, 2019, 05:31 PM   #24
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I run 45 super in my Sig Extreme 5" gun. Harrison Design flat bottom firing pin stop, 18lbs flat wire recoil spring, a 34lbs mainspring, and a xtra xtra power wolff firing pin spring. Tames my 230gr HST at 1250fps pretty well. I use a regular short GI spring guide and a GI plug without issue. I checked my barrel lugs to ensure good solid engagement prior to running them hot. I would suggest you do the same.

My 45 super load is an Extreme Bullets 230gr FN coated bullets or Federal HST bullets over 10.5gr of Alliant Power Pistol with CCI large pistol primers and Starline 45 Super brass. Empties are landing 8-12 feet away at approximately the 4 o'clock position.
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Old November 15, 2019, 10:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezerbiker View Post
Is the .45 Super more or less than the .45 Mag?

Tony
If you're referring to the 45 Win Mag no, it's not, the 45 Win Mag is basically a semi-auto 454 Casull, 45 Super is basically a semi-auto 45 Colt, where as the 45 ACP is a semi-auto 45 Scholfield.
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