Predatory Violence: How prepared are you in a close-quarter confrontation?

[Rachen]

Like Marc McYoung had stated in his article "Territorial vs. Predatory Violence", posted on the No-Nonsense Self Defense site, a classic case of predatorial violence involves an attacker "closing in", making sure that there is as little space as possible between him and the intended victim, thus greatly limiting the victim's chance to get away or mount an effective counterattack. Most rapes and murders or attempted murder committed with contact weapons seem to be of this nature. So are gang attacks. What do they all have in common? They involve you as the unwitting participant and the more pinned down you are and the less you are able to move around, the better for the assailants.

Now the drills that are taught in classic defensive handgun combat, as in drawing from various positions, weapon retention to avoid the gun being seized by the assailant, and most importantly, firing for effect, all involve a sequence of events much like the proper procedures for pulling out of a parking space. Signal, check left mirror, check over shoulder, pull into traffic when coast is clear. In a competitive environment like a IDPA match, such procedures can be drilled into perfect execution. For one reason: It is still a controlled environment where everyone is in a perfectly regulated setting. NOW, try to execute the same clockwork procedures when someone much stronger and faster than you is right on top of you, landing punch after punch into your face with the intent to seriously injure and kill.

In such a situation, the best course of defensive preparation is to act instinctively. Which is easier said than done. FAR easier said than done. When your trusty .45ACP carry pistol loaded with Critical Duty ammo is still tucked deep in your jacket, and you are unable to draw it because the assailant has you in a complete bear hug, that pistol is useless. And until you can get to it, pull it out, and drive a 250 grain polymer tipped slug into the assailant's CNS and put him down and out of the fight, you are pretty much dead meat. It doesn't matter what kind of fancy and powerful weapons are available for personal defense. Good old fashioned CQB is not going away and should not be going away. In a contact range fight, you might not be able to deploy certain weapons especially if they are kept at places which are difficult to access, but you have one key advantage: The opponent is RIGHT THERE in front of you, all within contact. The key is to inflict as much BIOMECHANICAL DAMAGE on him as possible so two things can happen: ONE: The injuries from CQB techniques that you have inflicted on him becomes so severe that he succumbs from them alone, as would be definitely possible if you have an easily-deployed knife in your hand, or TWO: The pain forces him to back off temporarily, thus allowing you to deploy a handgun or much larger knife and finish the fight. In police work, this is often a commonly encountered situation, as police officers are required, by the nature of their job to "close in" on individuals such as raging drunks, emotionally disturbed people who are unarmed, etc... and restrain them and take them into custody. However in this process, other unintended and unforeseen consequences can result. What if there was a battle for the officer's service weapon? Often times a service weapon gets seized by the wrong hands are is used against the officer. And that has happened many, many times in law enforcement, to the point that retention holster are now required as part of a LEO's kit.

For a normal civilian, when a situation has grown into full-blown CQB, with life or death on the balance, a whole new perspective of combat is now in order. You are not fighting anymore to subdue, or restrain, or take into custody. You are fighting because if you don't, that guy is going to kill you. And most unfortunately, there is only one person who is going to come out of this alive: You or him. If you are the master of some exotic and mystical, highly lethal martial art that specializes in unarmed combat, that is great kudos for you. But for most others, the only way to seize an advantage over a far more aggressive assailant in a CQB situation would be with a weapon. Most often a contact weapon such as a knife. Even a handgun can be used as a very effective blunt impact tool and many articles had been written on how to fight hand to hand using a pistol to multiply the force of your punch. A weapon that is meant for CQB should be able to be deployed in an instant's notice. A tactical folding knife, placed in a side pant pocket where it is easily reached even if you are tackled and pinned to the ground, can be used to inflict devastating wounds on an assailant at contact range and in a grapple. There is a reason why military martial arts programs all involve the use of fighting knives and bayonets. These things are not going away anytime soon.

And that comes to the main idea of this post: A CQB weapon is only a CQB weapon if it can be accessed IMMEDIATELY. Tactical folding knives can be carried on belt clips and rather shallow pant pockets, allowing access by free arm at the sides of the body. During the Urumqi ethnic riots of 2009, a passenger inside a car that was being besieged by a sudden flash mob of Islamic terrorists managed to survive by using an assisted opener to his advantage. After the driver was dragged out and killed by the rioters, two of them went into the car in an attempt to do the same to the passenger. How did the passenger survive? He made himself as small a target as possible, cowering down in the space right under the car seats. This forced the attacker(s) to have to reach their arms out to get their hands on him. And when one of them did, he grabbed the terrorist's hand, and with his other hand, opened a fighting knife and drove it repeatedly into his armpit. As Terrorist Number 1 bled out, the passenger slammed the knife into Number 2's chest and neck, also inflicting fatal wounds. Somehow, the passenger managed to crawl into the driver's seat, fighting all the way, and gunned the accelerator, sending the car forward and crushing several more rioters. Blinded by blood on his face, the man drove until he crashed into the side of a building, and then staggered out of the vehicle and hunkered down under an overturned vendor stand. People's Liberation Army soldiers found him several hours later and brought him to a hospital. What is the lesson learned here? When you make yourself as small as possible, you force an attacker to OPEN UP his vulnerable spots as he now must work harder and reach farther to get to you. Unprotected vital organs, arteries and veins does not last very long in an counterattack involving a knife. Finding a narrow hiding space but with enough width to maneuver around, like an open closet does that pretty remarkably. That has been taught in a number of Chinese and Filipino knife-defense courses.

The above is just ONE of many incidents in a riot which pretty much burned a city down. The place where this man was picked up? Right up a street from where my own cousin had his bookstore and was covering the entrance and the 100+ people who were taking shelter inside with a hunting bow. Four dead terrorists were found just outside the front gate with complete pass-through wound channels from broadhead arrows. Teaching that kid how to shoot paid off pretty good, seems like. Now, analyzing the nature and scope of these events, it boils down to this: You can train a lifetime to prepare yourself for situations like these, but training can only get you so far. The other part of the equation is do you have "it"? That is what Marc McYoung refers to as the sheer primal instinct to survive. And to survive means that you have to carve the other guy up into mincemeat. A lot of college studs that morning with nothing except textbooks and iPods in their bags did not even have time to react when the first rioters started hacking at people with machetes, near the campus of Urumqi Technical and Engineering. Surveillance videos showed some people who might have had time to run or fight simply stood there and let themselves get carved up. Can't really blame them because for an untrained person the body has a tendency to "freeze up" when facing situations like this. Tunnel vision takes over. Many videos showing flash-mob style gang assaults prove this.

So by mentioning "training to fight", we are not really training on fighting techniques or fighting styles, but the majority of the training seems to be psychological preparation, to FORCE the mind to unfreeze and act. Bottom line is , you are actually training to overcome one of the useless defense mechanisms the body has inherited from evolution, and instead, conditioning yourself to start moving and reacting fast when the turds start hitting the fan. Because when the riot and burning spread to other parts of the city by noon, there were plenty of accounts of how people who were unwittingly tangled into the storm survived: Some stabbed their would-be killers. Others shot them, bludgeoned them to death or ran them over with vehicles. By the time the regional PLA combat division and armed police (WUJING) secured the scene up to 40 rioters were dead. (CCTV 13 Coverage of riots) Of these around half were killed by responding authorities. Small numbers in a much larger arena where over 200 innocent people were butchered but enough to study the nature of CQB combat and how to increase your chances of survival in such an event.

The nature of a predatory attack is unpredictable and the only effective countermeasure is to react quickly and instinctively, and preferably with a tool that can multiply and concentrate the force of a blow. Now instead of just punching the assailant in the face while trying to dislodge his weight off from above you, you are punching him with a knife in your hand. And I think even a drugged up psycho would notice the effects rather quickly. After all, a catastrophic drop in blood pressure due to blood loss doesn't just buff out with a couple of Band-Aids. It is one thing to be proficient at defensive pistol techniques at traditional confrontation distances. It is a whole new playing field when you are boxed in, with the body weight of the perpetrator doing to boxing in. Just because you live in a safe neighborhood, in a "democratic" country does not mean that incidents like these will not happen. Violent crimes involving kidnapping, control and bodily harm often falls into this category of violence. And when certain political atmospheres cause people to gang up and take out their frustrations on other people who they believe are inferior to their ideologies, a whole new game of poker has now been started.

Sources taken from:
Marc McYoung main hub:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
On the nature of Territorial vs. Predatory Violence: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com...teurknifer.htm

[FireForged]

Would you care to separate what commentary is authored by you and which is authored by someone else. Do you have a comment or discussion point? This simply looks like excepts from a book.

[shurshot]

Good read regardless of the source.

[TunnelRat]

Well, not carrying a single action pistol from the 19th Century does make deploying a pistol a bit easier, imo.

In all seriousness these are good points. Some of these situations that you describe though are pretty extreme and pretty dire. You need a good deal of hand to hand training to punch your way out of them. Also, this is a firearms forum. While I think it's absolutely useful and important to discuss hand to hand combat, I think there is a pretty understandable slant to this forum. I think the key is to have some training that combines both, and that can be tricky to find as it often requires facilities and equipment, say SIMS or UTM and a place to use them, to really see it in action. A lot can also be done with blue gun training mixed in during a day along with shooting, but not all instructors do this or are comfortable with this. This applies to both firearms and martial arts instructors.

I also don't know if I agree that the weapon retention techniques and shooting positions that have been developed are great for IDPA but limited in other usefulness. Many of the people that developed those techniques did so after surviving encounters similar to what you describe. Certainly there are limits, but the notion that some of this only works in controlled environments is to me untrue. Obviously it makes things much more difficult, but in much of what is described above it is going to be difficult any way you approach it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Ricklin]

Good read, but rather difficult. Thanks.

[Rachen]

Well you can be sure son, if I was living in an area where there is an extremely high amount of violent activity where constant carry in an urban environment is a necessity, I would definitely be investing in a compact, striker-fired DA semi-auto with great emphasis on being able to draw it quickly if need be, that is, with the appropriate holsters and etc...

I mainly carry the Remington on camping and hiking trips. My GF loves nature and outdoor scenery and she would always smile and chide me when I pack the old warhorse along "aw come on, we are just going to see flowers and birds, why are you always carrying that gun?" My response: "because I am not going to let anything or anyone hurt you, remember the promise I made?" She did not like guns when we first met but now she doesn't mind them. Would never touch one but won't care that her crazy guy carries em' lol

But the '58 makes a hell of a great house and vehicle gun though. .45 Long Colt with 250 grain flatpoints over a full case of Goex Olde Eynsford FFFg. Clocking 1300 feet/sec makes for a lot of stopping power. I ain't scared of any lions, tigers or bears when I am in the woods with that thing. Heck, many a hog has been sent to the cooking pot with these loads. I can draw and fire it relatively quickly. Not as fast as Arvo Ojala of course, but confidently fast enough to be able to resolve many defensive situations. I use a shoulder holster in colder weather, or I simply tuck it into a haversack. Easy to load and unload the spent brass too I machined a loading channel into the recoil shield when I installed the converter.

The scenarios I put in my post is indeed extreme but that is the nature of predatory crimes. Hence why they require the use of CCW weapons. We carry them to protect ourselves and our loved ones from dirtbags in society who have no qualms about raping or killing people. In New York City right now the Karina Vetrano murder case is on trial. She was a jogger who, two years ago was brutally strangled, raped and murdered in a Queens park. Evidence collected and presented now showed that she had fought for her life for 45 MINUTES while Chanel Lewis punched, kicked, beat and choked her slowly to death. Absolutely one of the most gruesome cases in recent history. The punk had the audacity to turn his head in the court and try to look at the family of the poor girl he brutalized and then give the excuse that "he was angry that morning, that's why he attacked and killed a random stranger". Truthfully, I have the greatest respect for the Police Detectives who have to interrogate and interview criminals like that. They are truly remarkable people who have to keep their emotions under control and remain professional while they talk to some of the most vile and putrid scumbags out there so they can solve the crime and bring closure to the victims' families.

RE: Ricklin: I sorted some of the longer blocks into separate paragraphs now so they are not that hard on the eyes.

[TunnelRat]

I didn't mean any offense dad (the winky face was meant to convey a joke, but apparently that failed). Still, I don't live in an area where there is an "extremely high amount of violent activity in an urban situation" and I carry a pistol similar to what you describe (and certainly some very violent attacks have occurred in places where people afterwards are shocked that such a thing would happen there). If I lived in such an area hopefully I could move, but given that many of the situations you described are in fact extremely violent it doesn't seem out of the realm of reason to point out that equipment does play some role. I don't doubt the ballistics of 45LC, but the world has moved on and not completely without reason. That said it's your choice, and I simply meant it as a bit of gentle ribbing in what seemed a bit of an unusual situation to me where a man was discussing such violent situations while at the same time carrying what would be considered by most an antique handgun. It just seemed at odds with the message.

What I questioned was the presentation of extreme situations and the assertions that these situations are likely too extreme to use firearms. No one ever said defending your life would be easy, though I would argue the average self defense shooting is not what was presented above. Still, if the argument is about those extreme situations I stand behind what I said above in that these techniques that exist today aren't just good for IDPA work on the range. They were developed by people that survived similar such situations. Will the application of those techniques be a lot harder when someone is trying to beat you to death? Yes, I hope most are aware of this. It will also be pretty hard to fight your way out of it hand to hand. You apply whatever training and will you have to survive.

As I've said multiple times, hand to hand skills, edged weapon training, none of these are things I disregard. If you have access to such training by all means get it and pursue it with the same amount of vigor as firearms training. If the message of this post is that violent criminals are violent and that this violence will often be in close proximity, I think that's worth emphasizing. If my interpretation is wrong I apologize, as it's a lot of text and pulling out the meaning or discussion point wasn't easy for me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Rachen]

It's cool it's cool man No offense meant by any of my statements and I certainly did not take any offense to yours. I just wanted to offer a more in-depth explanation to why I carry a single action revolver and it has more to do with woodland/wilderness preparation than in an urban or pure tactical environment. Although a good portion of the reason is that since I was very young I had worked with single action, large caliber revolvers that fired straight-wall cases and so I am mighty comfortable in their use and maintenance.

And I love the versatility of these types of guns too. When I am at the range punching holes in cardboard baddies I don't need more than 18 grains of black powder and sometimes even a budget lead roundball with slight crimping of the cartridge is more than enough for a whole afternoon of fun. For wilderness carry, some urban carry or just in case some nutjob breaks in, I got a box of rounds loaded to full power with heavy flat-point slugs. I played around with smokeless powder in the past but I love using black powder since the data and experience I have on it is solid and straightforward.

There are different tools for different jobs and I know many folk and have many friends who are only comfortable with carrying the best tactical raceguns. I got others who still live in the high country like they was old time fur trappers. Flintlocks and all

[briandg]

I feel that I am fairly well prepared. situational awareness is the key to being prepared. I keep my pistol in a safe and easy to reach position and my general distaste for being close to anyone makes it pretty unlikely that someone will be able to sneak an attack on me. I know where every person in the area is, and what they are doing, unless I am in such a crowd that I can't possibly track all of the faces and hands. when I go into any public place, my eyes are always roving and my hands are always ready to do anything that I may need to do. I believe that unless it is a blind sucker punch from behind by an attacker who literally snuck up on me in stealth, I will be at an equal footing.

You can stand in line at an atm and ignore the lines, and maybe be fine, but even there you may be jumped. In a store with only a dozen people there, anyone can keep close tabs on the people around and determine rather easily who among them are wrapped up in whether the price of the cheese is too high or what size shoes they wear.

Carrying a weapon is only useful if you are aware enough to know when it has to be used, and that depends only upon yourself and the people around you.

When a guy ran into a C store a few years ago, I was alone with a clerk. he went straight to a rack of sun dresses and started feeling them. It made me wonder, who goes into a store and looks around, then goes straight to something that is rather incongruous?

The usual thing that you should be thinking is that he isn't there to buy a drink, he is either there to buy a dress, or he is stalling. why is he stalling? we don't know, but it is an absolute necessity to understand whether or not he is stalling for some reason and what that reason may be.

It was a remote store in a low part of town. I waited outside with my phone until he walked back out empty handed. I didn't ever determine why he went into a store and felt the fabric of a ten dollar dress. In any case, I had been aware and could have done whatever was necessary, and may have survived. I don't know what else I could have done. No amount of equipment or training will save your life if you don't care enough to proactively look for threats.

Think of the aegis missile system. That computer can track hundreds of objects at one time and act upon them with almost complete autonomy when the algorithms in the programming recognize danger. When one of the blips comes shipbound at a few hundred mph it will send a signal to the human component suggesting that the button be pushed.

We aren't computers. But the finger on the button makes the decision. The guy at the controls allows the system to track all of the chaff, and when the computer signals a possible threat, he takes over the observation and decision process. Where the computer might suggest firing on a jet ski, we have the benefit of knowing that it's just a jet ski with a blond, not a drone craft crammed with explosives. So, we must allow ourselves to observe like the computer and then act on it like a human when our "spider sense" is triggered, and use all of our faculties to act on the information that we have casually observed.

I'm tired. If this isn't entirely clear, it's because I'm tired.

[Aikibiker]

I am getting more and more convinced knives are not that useful for self defense except for scaring people away. Actually using them, they are not that effective. I have been working in a level 2 trauma center for the last couple years. During that time I have seen a large number of stabbing victims literally walk in the front door with injuries that you would think would be instantly debilitating.

I will share a few of the more memorable knife wounds I recall.

The first stabbing I dealt with I was sitting in the waiting around 0200 when a guy stumbles in with no shirt on and covered in what I thought were lightning bolt tattoos. As he got closer noticed the gaping rents in his torso. I counted three including one very close to his heart that had to have clipped a lung. This guy was still on his feet waling and talking, though he started to fade fast as the adrenaline wore off. He and his girlfriend had driven about three miles from where he was stabbed to our hospital. The patient lived.

The second memorable stabbing happened about a year ago, I was once again in triage, though my desk was moved away from incoming patients. This guy walked in the front door very calmly and WAITED in line to check in. I first noticed something was wrong after I saw the puddle of blood next to the check in window. This guy intervened in fight at a park about 3/4 mile from our facility. He was stabbed in the groin and judging by the amount of bright red blood an artery was hit. This guy then proceeded to WALK to our hospital. He was treated and released within a few hours. His only concern was that his pants were ruined (cut off with shears by the trauma team). He also stated to me that he did not realize he had been stabbed for about 5 minutes after it occurred. He only realized when he noticed the blood.

The third happened while I was working in the emergency department. As I was walking around one of our Physicians Assistants flagged me down and asked me to talk to a patient that was giving him some problems. The PA told me under no uncertain terms should I let the patient leave, because he would die... eventually. This patient had at least arrived by ambulance. He had been involved in a bar fight and only after the fact, when a friend pointed out to him that he was bleeding, did he realize he had been stabbed in the inside upper arm. Our PA had been attempting to stitch the guy's brachial artery closed when the patient decided he did not want any more medical treatment. The reason was that he was upset he had been stabbed and wanted to go back to the bar and finish things with the guy that stabbed him. Yes, alcohol was involved. It took about 20-30 minutes of talking to finally convince the guy to get sewn up, all the while his severed artery was painting the floor of the exam room red. That patient also lived and was discharged after he sobered up.

I also saw a guy that walked into our Emergency Department with his throat cut. He was rude as hell to the medical staff and eventually left after being sewed up.

That said I carry still carry a knife as well as my pistol, but I also continue to train in martial arts, specifically standing grappling/clinch fighting.

[Sharkbite]

I am getting more and more convinced knives are not that useful for self defense except for scaring people away.

Joel,

First, thanks for being on the front lines of emergency care.
As to your comment about knives, they require TRAINING to use effectivly. If a knife user just flails and stabs at random (prision shank style . The results will be as described. Give the same knife to a Sayoc Kali practitioner, WAY different outcome.

Both of the wounds you describe are what are referred to as “timers”. They take time (usually through blood loss) to be effective.

“Switches” are much prefered for SD knife use. Such tgts as the Flexor tendons in the forearms are great tgts, as they are what allows the fist to close and grip objects.

Without turning this into an edged weapons discussion, dont discount the blade as a SERIOUS weapon in trained hands.

[luger fan]

Say what????? You PREFER a compact SA striker fired BUT carry a SINGLE ACTION? OK!

[JERRYS.]

you have to have space to pull your gun, or you have to create space to do so. for CQC I suggest a basic course of S.S.G.T. no ninja stuff needed no advanced training, not dependent upon size and strength.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

you have to have space to pull your gun, or you have to create space to do so. for CQC I suggest a basic course of S.S.G.T. no ninja stuff needed no advanced training, not dependent upon size and strength.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't pop up in the list of acronyms I'm expected to know and have memorized as a result. Would you mind listing it out?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[FireForged]

Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
you have to have space to pull your gun, or you have to create space to do so. for CQC I suggest a basic course of S.S.G.T. no ninja stuff needed no advanced training, not dependent upon size and strength.

it stands for: strategic - self defense - grappling and gunfighting - tactics.

I agree that grappling and ground based fighting is critical for any realistic self defense system. I greatly benefitted from LAPD-ARCON which was widely taught back in the 90s.

[TunnelRat]

Thank you. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[ROCK6]

Interesting read, and relevant to my current occupation, but still applicable in certain locations and occupations back home. I currently have a low-speed, high-drag advisor job. Nothing sexy, no kicking down doors, or rolling in the dirt anymore. I've used a few different "punch knives", although push-daggers would work equally as well (applicable laws for some locations back home). I've used the KaBar TDI (smaller version), Benchmade Azeria, and the "Colonel" from Colonel Blades. The latter is a beast of a punch knife and I love the design.

I carry the punch knife on my belt for weak-hand draw.

I also have the Benchmade SOCP dagger on my plate carrier, also for weak-hand draw, but for more vertical room draw, vice the more horizontal draw of the punch knife. Maybe not fitting for this particular discussion, but the punch or push knives have proven extremely effective in tight-quarters use.



The challenge for me is always wearing bulky body armor in tight confines or seated situations. Those were my concerns and quite applicable for back home (minus the armor).

As to training, I did some draws in my vehicle in full kit with a cardboard box as my "threat". I also set up a chair out behind our shelter with a cardboard (or wooden pallet) "threat" on either side, directly in front, and one behind me. It's pretty difficult to draw in close quarters when your arms are pinned in tight. I concluded I need about 4-6" of horizontal draw space for my punch knife, and about the same for a vertical deployment of the SOCP dagger.

Nothing was sexy or cool. Just draw, punch/stab to create space and then draw my sidearm.

The other concern was if pressed against a wall, basically pinning my strong-side arm or keeping me from accessing my sidearm. Being able to use my weak-side hand to draw and "punch" to create space was my focus.

Needless to say, I stabbed a lot of cardboard and a few wooden pallets:

Freedom of movement is critical and something to always be cognizant of as you assess every situation. I'm a firm believer that I want a pointy object quickly and easily accessible by my weak-hand that I can train with for the sole purpose of getting a threat off me if my strong-arm is pinned or my handgun is inaccessible. Once space is created, if I can get away, that's my preference, if not, I want enough space to engage with my handgun (close engagement training is just as important).

ROCK6

[Brit]

Spent 5 years as a Bouncer, in the rough Seaport of Liverpool UK. Forget all you think you know about fighting!

Fists closed by your sides/ talking tough. Pushing people, a big no-no.

Watch the one in front talking to me (normally in groups of 4 or 5) if he gives a sly glance around, the instant his eyes come off, you break his nose. Then you move on to the next one, your partner was off the mark as you hit the first one. I had two partners I worked with, we only worked on the street.
Not downstairs bouncers. Serious men.

George, 6' 4" 200lbs, worked on building sights. Strong as a horse. Larry, ex SAS Trooper, a right maniac. Once we had three down, they normally ran.

The same thing happens in a street attack, feet or fists, now I am American, and armed every day, Glock 19, OTW holster under a loose shirt. Left hand to block the knife, right hand holding pistol, point shooting, two rounds centre chest, move on to the next attacker, if only one assailant, centre face!

Call 911. The first thing call for an ambulance "I have a heart condition" I do.
My location.

"I was just attacked, I fired my pistol in self-defence" I have a white beard I am Wearing tan pants, black sneakers. Striped shirt. My pistol is holstered.

It will be when I hear the sirens.

[Aikibiker]

Fists closed by your sides/ talking tough. Pushing people, a big no-no

Spot on. Talking tough, or threatening people never de-escalates things. It either makes them want to prove themselves or scares them and backs them into a mental corner where fight or flight seems like their only option. In the same vein I try not to raise my voice or play into people's delusions. When I am trying to talk people out of fighting with me I want to be calm and factual. I also try to shut down side topics and digressions. It doesn't help to get someone talked down only to let them get worked up again over something else.

[Leaf]

Spent 5 years as a Bouncer, in the rough Seaport of Liverpool UK. Forget all you think you know about fighting!

Fists closed by your sides/ talking tough. Pushing people, a big no-no.

Watch the one in front talking to me (normally in groups of 4 or 5) if he gives a sly glance around, the instant his eyes come off, you break his nose. Then you move on to the next one, your partner was off the mark as you hit the first one. I had two partners I worked with, we only worked on the street.
Not downstairs bouncers. Serious men.

George, 6' 4" 200lbs, worked on building sights. Strong as a horse. Larry, ex SAS Trooper, a right maniac. Once we had three down, they normally ran.

The same thing happens in a street attack, feet or fists, now I am American, and armed every day, Glock 19, OTW holster under a loose shirt. Left hand to block the knife, right hand holding pistol, point shooting, two rounds centre chest, move on to the next attacker, if only one assailant, centre face!

Call 911. The first thing call for an ambulance "I have a heart condition" I do.
My location.

"I was just attacked, I fired my pistol in self-defence" I have a white beard I am Wearing tan pants, black sneakers. Striped shirt. My pistol is holstered.

It will be when I hear the sirens.

Your post gave me a good laugh but as far as I could tell it was the God honest truth.

[JERRYS.]

Originally Posted by FireForged

it stands for: strategic - self defense - grappling and gunfighting - tactics.

I agree that grappling and ground based fighting is critical for any realistic self defense system. I greatly benefitted from LAPD-ARCON which was widely taught back in the 90s.

the emphasis is on the grappling, not firearms. in order to be able to use your gun you have to be able to access it and have room to deploy it. escaping or better yet preventing getting into a headlock, bear hug or being put on the ground is essential. however, as most things in life a fight usually ends up in some sort of clinch and goes to the ground. this is where you have to be able to escape from or control your opponent.

you'd be surprised how little strength is needed for some of this stuff as it is based on leverage and technique. Don't get me wrong, strength and weight/size are an advantage but without skill are easily used against you.


disengage and either run or fight, it all depends upon what your assailant does next. of course, this is all based on the assumption of somebody trying to physically overpower you, although there are some basic edged weapons defenses that are part of this training as well.

[Sharkbite]

you'd be surprised how little strength is needed for some of this stuff as it is based on leverage and technique. Don't get me wrong, strength and weight/size are an advantage but without skill are easily used against you.

.

That is a BJJ guy right there

[Mannlicher]

and yet time after time, the news reports of everyday folks surviving close quarter attacks do not mention that they used special weapons, special tactics, had received special training. What they did have though was the ability and willingness to engage.

[Sharkbite]

and yet time after time, the news reports of everyday folks surviving close quarter attacks do not mention that they used special weapons, special tactics, had received special training. What they did have though was the ability and willingness to engage.

Luck plays a part in every encounter. Sometimes its good luck, sometimes its bad.

Luck is not a strategy. Training and preparation are the key to turning bad luck into good luck

[FireForged]

and yet time after time, the news reports of everyday folks surviving close quarter attacks do not mention that they used special weapons, special tactics, had received special training. What they did have though was the ability and willingness to engage.

ability and willingness is about all anyone needs to get themselves in trouble.

I am not sure why news reporters would be reporting on the narrow/specific nuances of a fight, that's not what gets the ratings. I am also not sure why anyone in a fight would be telling a reporter that they have "special training" or used special weapons.

"This is action news XYZ123 reporting on a local mans altercation which included the use of a gooseneck- come-a-long followed by a flying guard. The victim Jon Q public was reported to have said that he was saved by Katame-Waza techniques." LOL

Just speaking for myself I don't use news reports as the basis to form my opinions or consideration regarding self defense, I use personal life experience.