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July 3, 2021, 07:40 AM | #26 | ||
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Quote:
From the article linked in the opening post: Quote:
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July 3, 2021, 11:24 AM | #27 |
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The criminalization of gun ownership . . .
The subtext here is the criminalization of gun ownership. Many people, even well educated people, see no good reason to own a gun. They believe that gun owners must be up to no good. It's like a phobia.
Makes me crazy. Prof Young |
July 3, 2021, 11:26 AM | #28 |
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If a criminal enters your home and in the commission of his intended theft, shoots and injures you, causing you to go to the hospital, where, in this country in the present time is a municipality responsible for your medical charges? Your medical insurance covers all the expenses they list, with the exception of police expenses, which is the bottom line in this aura of police defunding since they can't make it obvious they are moving back to the future.
This is a tax directed at a specific portion of the population that provides a benefit to community members as well, who don't own guns, the supposed benefit being it reduces a general tax on all community members for the same portion of the city's budgeted expenses. I can't see how it would pass muster in court. But, then again, California is the land of fruits and nuts. |
July 3, 2021, 11:40 AM | #29 | |
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A neighbor who rents his home, has six kids, who ride the bus, eat school lunches, and often actually enter the school building doesn't pay a penny in school taxes under our system in many places. I don't see how this is different in base principle, taxing someone who has "something" to pay for benefits and services for those who don't have that "something" and so, don't pay the tax. And yet, its done all the time, all over the country. How is that fair, equal treatment, under the law???
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July 3, 2021, 12:31 PM | #30 | |
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I'm not a fan of government run schools, but I'll take a swing at this.
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The San Jose proposal is a direct taxation of the exercise of the right and the legislative history that follows this idea will include language suggesting that the council sees this as restitution for the costs of gun possession. The tax isn't imposed on everyone within the jurisdiction, only those who exercise their right.
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July 3, 2021, 01:12 PM | #31 | |
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So the .gov says, "Let's create a nightmare bureaucratic system that applies only to gun owners, 99 percent of whom are law abiding citizens and don't need any administration, and then we'll charge them an 'administrative fee' to cover the costs of administering the bureaucracy that doesn't accomplish anything because the 1 percent of gun owners who commit the crimes don't register their guns with the bureaucracy anyway." Does that about sum it up?
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July 3, 2021, 01:42 PM | #32 |
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July 3, 2021, 07:35 PM | #33 | |
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Oh ... wait. Don't we already pay taxes to pay for the police and the EMTs? Same applies to gun owners. They're already paying taxes to pay for first responders, so this new "fee" amounts to unequal double taxation. The county can't call it a "user fee," because law abiding gun owners typically don't create "gun crime" incidents, and don't call the police unless they have just shot an assailant -- in which case it should be the assailant who pays for the first responders, not the victim.
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July 4, 2021, 09:29 AM | #34 |
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44AMP said: "A neighbor who rents his home, has six kids, who ride the bus, eat school lunches, and often actually enter the school building doesn't pay a penny in school taxes under our system in many places."
I think the owner of the rental property pays school tax on the basis of the property. That expense is reflected in the rent charge, so, in effect, renters are paying school taxes. |
July 4, 2021, 10:55 AM | #35 | |
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Forearms may be the most benign matter they regulate, but firearm purchasers are treated like taxable lab rats.
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July 4, 2021, 11:40 AM | #36 |
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Right now with the Current Potus, I am worried about a whole lot more than San Jose gun taxes.
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July 4, 2021, 01:15 PM | #37 | |
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i think the principle is the same, everyone who owns "A" is being taxed for the benefit of a group they may or may not belong to. Some situations may allow the taxpayer to pass along the cost, others do not. The gun owner tax being proposed is different. San Jose govt is attempting to "double dip" into gun owner's wallets. Gun owners already pay for fire, medical and police services the same way everyone else does. Now, the San Jose govt wants to charge them extra to supposedly pay for those same services again, because somehow, they think the people who's guns shoot nobody are responsible for the actions of others, and should pay for the cost of their illegal acts. Using that FLAWED logic shows a spectacular lack of judgement and common sense, to me, and people who think that way should not be the ones we elect to manage our govt.
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July 4, 2021, 02:40 PM | #38 | |
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Double dipping is double dipping, regardless of how they try to "justify" it.
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July 4, 2021, 03:40 PM | #39 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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July 4, 2021, 04:10 PM | #40 | ||
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Quote:
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It really is time for someone to release a sequel to Edwin Newman's books, Strictly Speaking and A Civil Tongue.
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July 5, 2021, 01:26 PM | #41 |
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With all the valid and well placed comments, there are three major issues which no one seems to have touched on. One, and most important not only in Fresno but nation wide, when individuals such as this are up for election and then get re-elected, those living there deserve what they get. They, not the officials, are responsible. Second, if the new law becomes upheld and a reality, do the non-fire arm owners get a reduction in tax paid to fund the law enforcement, EMS, ect as specified in the law? Likewise, do those with firearms continue to pay the same rate rate? Finally, this will do nothing at all for what it's claimed since, like all taxation, it goes into the general fund. Therefore, it will be spent on social programs as always.
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July 5, 2021, 05:11 PM | #42 |
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This is the rare case where the “tax” is not about increasing revenue. It’s about placing impediments in the way of those politically incorrect enough to exercise their 2A rights.
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July 6, 2021, 08:18 AM | #43 |
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And that is, or should be, the reason the courts will find the law unconstitutional. I wish I had more confidence in the courts.
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July 6, 2021, 08:58 PM | #44 |
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I thought about this today. Did San Jose defund their police?
I looked it up: https://sanjosespotlight.com/hundred...f-budget-vote/ Now, if they did vote to defund the police, then they will have a deficit in funds in that budget to manage the needs of the police force, which include salaries, benefits, including health care insurance, ambulance services and police department business administration. Interestingly, the tax and fees on gun owners have been announced as necessary to fund "police responses (salaries?), ambulances, medical treatments, and other municipal expenses related to shootings, injuries and deaths." If a crime perpetrator is injured during the course of the arrest, and taken to the hospital by ambulance, I sincerely doubt the miscreant has medical insurance, and so, the municipality may get the bill for the ambulance ride and hospital care. All of this requires police department/municipal business office intervention. So by defunding the police department, the budget deficit is planned to be compensated by gun owners who have absolutely nothing to do with the crimes committed. A tax and fee mandate that may well violate the Constitution as I am under the impression that taxes have to be imposed on citizens equally. They cannot divert tax funds to other budgeted categories, then seek reimbursement from a selected population. Cigarette smokers were not taxed to pay for the associated medical costs. The product abused was taxed. In this case, they can't tax the gun because it was not necessarily used by a law-abiding citizen to commit the crime that generated the expense. Thoughts? |
July 6, 2021, 09:46 PM | #45 |
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July 7, 2021, 01:26 PM | #46 | |
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July 7, 2021, 04:49 PM | #47 | |
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So, as I see it the renter isn't paying the tax, even though the owner is using (Part) of that rent to pay the tax, its coming out of the property owner's income, and could even be paid from some other portion of his income that isn't derived from rent. The owner pays the tax, its their personal choice where the funds they use to do so, originate from. OF course this is a somewhat simplistic view, I suppose, things in the real world are complex
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July 7, 2021, 05:13 PM | #48 |
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Makes sense and point taken
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July 9, 2021, 01:47 AM | #49 |
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So when a burglar steals a gun, he won't have to pay the fee or get insurance because technically he isn't the owner. Correct?
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July 9, 2021, 02:03 AM | #50 | |
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SO, since paying the fee or getting the insurance is admitting he HAS a gun, he's not required to do so, since admitting he has an illegal gun is a violation of his 5th Amendment right against self incrimination. If he gets caught with the gun, he will be charged with having an illegal gun, BUT he will NOT be charged with failing to register that gun, or not paying the tax or getting insurance because doing so would violate his Constitutional rights.
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