Is three day wait for handgun universal?

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by FunGramps

How long do the criminals have to wait for their weapons,...

While you may have intended this as a rhetorical device, that involves a real issue in state red flag laws. Where a law allows a person's means of effective defense to be confiscated on nothing more than a complaint, he is deprived of a fundamental right without due process.

A mandatory waiting period is not due process, or any legal process at all.

Originally Posted by FunGramps

... and what measures are being taken by the feds to specifically address and focus on criminals -vs- law-abiding citizens?

Is there any part of the federal regulation of possession that federal regulation has made better without first having made it worse?

The evanescence of the waiting period when instant checks were introduced was an improvement, but it only cured the waiting period. Should a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction mean that you need to spend the rest of your life relying on a telephone and police willingness to respond if you have a problem with a malevolent character?

[dogtown tom]

raimius There is no federal law requiring a delay. Those are all state or local laws.

The Brady Law (a federal law) does not allow the dealer to transfer the firearm until the MDI date unless he receives a proceed status before that date. That's a delay.

As others have alluded to, there is a period of 3 business days, after which, if the NICS check does not produce a definitive answer, the dealer may choose to complete the sale. This ensures the government may not deny sales via refusing to answer background checks in a timely (ish) manner.

And right here is where you disagreed with your first paragraph.

[dogtown tom]

FunGramps How long do the criminals have to wait for their weapons, and what measures are being taken by the feds to specifically address and focus on criminals -vs- law-abiding citizens?

I caught a buyer lying on his 4473 once.
He filled it out, was denied on his NICS check. I gave him the appeal info. Many months later I found out he had not started the appeal process. I told him I would begin charging a storage fee on his pistol, hoping that would spur him into action. It kinda did.

Four months later I call him to see what the status of his appeal and he tells me he had received it the month before. He brings the FBI appeal document that explains his deferred adjudication terms are removed and his NICS denial overturned. Seems he was under indictment the day he filled out that 4473. He lied on the 4473, which is a felony.

I called my ATF IOI and asked how to proceed.........."transfer the gun, the US Attorney Office doesn't take those types of charges". Wow.

That's the problem with laws, if you don't enforce what laws you do have, then making new ones is every bit as unneeded.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

In effect they impose burdens and restrictions on all gun buyers, every time, but can only have the claimed preventative ability on first time gun buyers.

First time gun buyers who are law-abiding citizens (except for contemplating murder) who either won't, or aren't in a position to, just go buy a gun on a dark street corner late at night.

[jag1954]

No problems here in Central Ohio. Hand over the dl, fill out the 4473 and done. Takes me approx. 30 minutes from the time I've walked in the door at the LGS to finishing up and heading home with a new gun.

[44 AMP]

At one time when Biden was VP, he was "caught" by a reporter in a hallway and asked, point blank, why the Fed govt did so little to prosecute people who lied (and so broke the law) when trying to buy a gun.

His obvious off the cuff answer was probably honest, he gave a dismissive hand wave and stated "We don't have time for that".

I wonder what he does have time for, now that he's President....

[raimius]

The Brady Law (a federal law) does not allow the dealer to transfer the firearm until the MDI date unless he receives a proceed status before that date. That's a delay.

Then, I assume, you are intentionally misconstruing the National "Instant" Check System as the same thing as a legal minimum time (such as proposed 3 or 10 day waits). Clearly, these are different things, and the latter is what the OP was asking about.

[Tom Servo]

I called my ATF IOI and asked how to proceed.........."transfer the gun, the US Attorney Office doesn't take those types of charges". Wow.

I had a few attempted straw purchases over the years. Each time, I contacted the local office, and the ATF told me it was an issue for the sheriff. When I contacted the sheriff, they told me it was an issue for the ATF. I'd get names and numbers and keep all the info on file. Nobody had any interest in pursuing it.

In one case, agents came to the shop demanding I pull records for a gun they claimed was likely "in the hands of the cartels." While I waited for them to call the tracing center, one of them asked me what I did if there was an attempted straw purchase. I told them of my difficulties in getting anyone to pursue the issue. He then claimed that I should go ahead and transfer the weapon to the suspect, then call the ATF so they could follow up. Ridiculous.

[Don P]

I had a few attempted straw purchases over the years. Each time, I contacted the local office, and the ATF told me it was an issue for the sheriff. When I contacted the sheriff, they told me it was an issue for the ATF. I'd get names and numbers and keep all the info on file. Nobody had any interest in pursuing it.

In one case, agents came to the shop demanding I pull records for a gun they claimed was likely "in the hands of the cartels." While I waited for them to call the tracing center, one of them asked me what I did if there was an attempted straw purchase. I told them of my difficulties in getting anyone to pursue the issue. He then claimed that I should go ahead and transfer the weapon to the suspect, then call the ATF so they could follow up. Ridiculous.

You just have to love the bureaucracy, the federal government behind the 8 ball all the time and Fast & Furious comes to mind

[TomNJVA]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

They assume that a waiting period of 3 days, or 10, or whatever number they decide on will force the potential murderer to wait and reflect on their decision and possibly they will reconsider and not do violence against others.

This assumption might actually work with some small numbers, but we'll never know, there's no way to know, people who were thinking of murder and reconsider don't let the world know that. There's no statistics that can be made into a database and used for talking points, there's no evidence available at all. All there is, is the assumption and supposition that crimes that didn't happen are the result of the waiting period. It's BS.

Agreed! Given the utter lack of data, all assumptions and speculations are equal, so it is also possible that a waiting period could lead someone to think about adding others to shoot with his new gun, or take more time to plan and thereby succeed.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by TomNJVA

Agreed! Given the utter lack of data, all assumptions and speculations are equal, so it is also possible that a waiting period could lead someone to think about adding others to shoot with his new gun, or take more time to plan and thereby succeed.

Or switch to Molotov cocktails that are a lot harder to trace...

[SIGSHR]

Here in NJ they now have the State Police do the NICS, when I bought a 22LR rifle in December it was pay for it, fill out the paperwork, and they texted me when the NICS came through, about 4-5 days later.

[dogtown tom]

jag1954 No problems here in Central Ohio. Hand over the dl, fill out the 4473 and done.

Not in any state. you either hand the dealer your NICS exempt firearm permit or he runs a NICS check on you.

[dogtown tom]

raimius

Then, I assume, you are intentionally misconstruing the National "Instant" Check System as the same thing as a legal minimum time (such as proposed 3 or 10 day waits). Clearly, these are different things, and the latter is what the OP was asking about.

OP said nothing about proposed wait periods.

[roscoe]

If you have a CCW in AZ, there is no background search, even. 10 minutes, tops, and you are out the door with your new toy.

But, nowadays, without ammo!!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by roscoe

If you have a CCW in AZ, there is no background search, even. 10 minutes, tops, and you are out the door with your new toy.

I'm going to guess that this only applies if you have an Arizona carry license, and that Arizona is one of those states that deems a current carry license to satisfy the requirement for a background check.

Can an Arizona resident who does not have a carry license walk in, buy a handgun, and walk out in 10 minutes without a background check?

[dogtown tom]

Aguila Blanca

I'm going to guess that this only applies if you have an Arizona carry license, and that Arizona is one of those states that deems a current carry license to satisfy the requirement for a background check.

Arizona doesn't decide whether their permits qualify as an exemption, ATF does. Not all states have a firearm permit that meets the requirements to serve as an exemption.

Can an Arizona resident who does not have a carry license walk in, buy a handgun, and walk out in 10 minutes without a background check?

Of course not. Federal law has required dealers to conduct a background check since 1998.

[Don P]

From what I was told and have read, the ATF will give the ok waiving the NICS check IF the issuing agency for CCW permits is law enforcement.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Arizona doesn't decide whether their permits qualify as an exemption, ATF does. Not all states have a firearm permit that meets the requirements to serve as an exemption.

I know that, but the point was that in some states all you have to do is show your permit. I don't know if Arizona is one of those states, but it appears that they are.

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Of course not. Federal law has required dealers to conduct a background check since 1998.

That was a rhetorical question, directed at roscoe, for the purpose of emphasizing the fact that not just anyone can walk into a gun shop and walk out ten minutes later, with a handgun and not having to go through a NICS phone call.

[ghbucky]

I see several people commenting that having a CCW exempts you from a background check in a lot of places.

That's not actually true. In those states where you can skip a background check, it is because the state is running monthly background checks on you to determine if they need to revoke your CCW.

So, you don't skip background checks, there was already one run on you in the last 30 days.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

I see several people commenting that having a CCW exempts you from a background check in a lot of places.

That's not actually true. In those states where you can skip a background check, it is because the state is running monthly background checks on you to determine if they need to revoke your CCW.

So, you don't skip background checks, there was already one run on you in the last 30 days.

Source of information?
Specific states or all?

[dogtown tom]

ghbucky I see several people commenting that having a CCW exempts you from a background check in a lot of places.

That's not actually true. In those states where you can skip a background check, it is because the state is running monthly background checks on you to determine if they need to revoke your CCW.

So, you don't skip background checks, there was already one run on you in the last 30 days.

No, it actually IS TRUE.
First, the "background check" that everyone in this thread is referring to is the NICS check. Having a qualifying permit exempts you from a background check at the point of sale.
Second, read the Form 4473, top of page 3, Que 29 "No NICS check is required because the transferee/buyer has a valid permit from the State where the transfer is to take place, which qualifies as an exemption to NICS.

Whether the state is running monthly checks is immaterial for the purposes of buying a gun. In fact, a buyer could have had his qualifying permit revoked and if he doesn't tell the dealer he'll still get the gun. The dealer doesn't violate any law, but the buyer does.

[44 AMP]

This thread is the first time I've every heard of state permits that allow the FEDERAL instant check to be waived. I had no idea such a thing even existed.

In my state, a CHL allowed you to bypass the state waiting period. The Fed NICS check was still always done. Now, thanks to a voter initiative passed law that small "perk" has been taken from us. Everybody, CHL licensed or not has to wait the same amount of time for a handgun. Longer if you're wanting to buy a semiautomatic assault rifle....

[ghbucky]

Again, there is nothing that 'waives' background checks. The ATF allows states that comply with them to allow permits to prove that a background check has already happened.

Here is a list of states that meet ATF NICS requirements:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...y-permit-chart

Here is a list of open letters from ATF to a states FFL's providing guidance on when they do not have to do a NICS:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...y-letters-ffls

[dogtown tom]

ghbucky Again, there is nothing that 'waives' background checks.

Again, not true. Whether you call it an exemption or a waiver, the FBI NICS background check is not conducted by the dealer when the buyer/transferee holds a qualifying permit.

Whether a background check was conducted previously by a state agency is immaterial to what happens at a gun store counter.