Changed the dual spring assembly on Colt Defender

cw308 · January 16, 2018, 12:29 PM

The assembly on the gun , even though it works looks pretty flimsy. Found a company that has a change to a solid full size guide rod using a #22 flat spring using a reverse plug . EGW is the company , I ordered an installed in my 45 . Will test on Thursday . I have a Colt New Agent in 45acp it's the same as the Defender , Has anyone installed one on their gun , if so let me know how you like it.

shootniron · January 16, 2018, 04:38 PM

I have the gun...never changed it and it has been fine with the factory setup...although, it has been replaced due to round count.

The new one should work well for you.

625TC · January 16, 2018, 06:41 PM

I have made the conversion on four different guns. I love it

shootniron · January 16, 2018, 07:01 PM

Quote:

I have made the conversion on four different guns. I love it

What improvement in function did it make over the factory setup?

cw308 · January 16, 2018, 07:27 PM

Thank You All for answering .
I changed the assembly not because it gave me a problem , only because it looked like the weakest point on the gun , a plunger held by a e clip just bothered me . The single spring with a solid steel full size guide rail one piece is Rock solid . May not function any better but I feel better with a stronger assembly .

Chris

625TC · January 16, 2018, 08:00 PM

assembly and disassembly became easier or at least it is to me. The slide does not batter the frame, longer spring life, And I know this is very subjective I trust this set up more

cw308 · January 16, 2018, 08:05 PM

625TC
Which assembly did you go with ?

625TC · January 16, 2018, 08:09 PM

I actually made a two piece guide rod on the lath, The used a 26lbs single recoil spring from wolf, Works great

625TC · January 16, 2018, 08:10 PM

If I can figure out how to post pictures I will post some

cw308 · January 16, 2018, 11:46 PM

625TC
Would love to see pictures . Nice to make improvements on the original design yourself. Need the right equipment an know how to use it . Never worked a lath . Good talking to you.

Chris

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2018, 07:44 AM

I find it somewhat ironic that the type of recoil assembly used on the Colt Defender (and many other compact 1911s from various manufacturers) was widely hailed as a big improvement over a standard guide rod and recoil spring when the new type assemblies were introduced. Now we're looking to go back to a variation on the old system, and that's being touted as an improvement ... on the improvement.

Marketing -- where would we be without it?

cw308 · January 17, 2018, 08:23 AM

Aguila Blanca
Your thinking makes sense to me , changes from single to double spring recoil assembly. If the guide rod assembly was stronger without a post and back plate held together by a e clip I may have never looked to improve the assembly . The new assembly from EGW single spring is made much stronger . I didn't through out Colt's assembly , I have a spare complete assembly , springs & e clips. Will see how the EGW assembly holds up . Nothing wrong with trying is there. I'll let everyone know how it works out for sure . Thanks for answering my post , Chris

RickB · January 17, 2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

I find it somewhat ironic that the type of recoil assembly used on the Colt Defender (and many other compact 1911s from various manufacturers) was widely hailed as a big improvement over a standard guide rod and recoil spring when the new type assemblies were introduced. Now we're looking to go back to a variation on the old system, and that's being touted as an improvement ... on the improvement.

The flat-wire spring is a worthwhile innovation, more than a "single" spring, per se.
I've done some swapping of conventional single, dual, triple, and single flat-wire recoil springs in a compact .45, and I was impressed by the additional in-battery pressure applied to the barrel/slide by the flat-wire.
With a single, round-wire spring, the spring is almost fully relaxed when the gun is in battery, with very little pressure actually holding the gun in battery, and very little resistance to initial slide movement in recoil.

Increasing the number of springs increases the resistance, but I think there's always the sense that adding parts increases the likelihood of parts failure.

I'm running a triple-spring set-up now, no issues, but I think a single, flat-wire spring would be an improvement, if only due to simplicity.

A single, round-wire recoil spring, in a compact .45, would be last on my list.

cw308 · January 17, 2018, 02:51 PM

RickB
I'm testing the assembly tomorrow , hopefully it will work fine . Thanks for adding to the conversation. Chris

cw308 · January 18, 2018, 03:21 PM

Tested the EGW assembly , worked Perfect . 100 rounds ran 100% without a problem , I had my fingers crossed with the first magazine . On the Colt assembly that e clip to me is a problem weighting to happen . It's only 100 rounds , hopefully it continues to work. . So far I'm happy with the new assembly.

shootniron · January 18, 2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

On the Colt assembly that e clip to me is a problem weighting to happen .

Glad it worked well.

However, there is not a history of the Colt setup having problems and these guns have been around for a pretty good while.

625TC · January 18, 2018, 03:53 PM

Glad it works for you. Keep range updates coming

cw308 · January 18, 2018, 04:06 PM

625TC
I sure will , Happy an Healthy New Year . Chris

RickB · January 18, 2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:
On the Colt assembly that e clip to me is a problem weighting to happen .

Glad it worked well.

However, there is not a history of the Colt setup having problems and these guns have been around for a pretty good while.

Not related specifically to the e clip, but in my recoil guide/spring wanderings, I had Cylinder & Slide build me two custom guide rod assemblies of the "dual telescoping" style used in the Defender/Agent.
The design was patented by Seecamp, and intended for 3.5" Colts, but widely appearing on 3" guns (Seecamp sued Glock, and won, for patent infringement) so I had to have them custom-made for my 3.5" gun, though I think Para Ordnance did make them for their 3.5" P12, so the parts were available over the counter for the 3.5" Colt Compact/Officers for a retrofit.
It wasn't the e clip, but the extremely thin, sheetmetal guiderod head that looked suspect to me.
Both of my guiderod/spring units collapsed after very little use, the sheetmetal head being deformed and the rod itself - e clip holding strong - pushed back into the barrel lug/link.
The problem specific to my gun was that the guiderod seat in the frame was heavily beveled around its edge, and there wasn't enough support for that thin sheetmetal.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 18, 2018, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickB

The design was patented by Seecamp, and intended for 3.5" Colts, but widely appearing on 3" guns (Seecamp sued Glock, and won, for patent infringement) so I had to have them custom-made for my 3.5" gun, though I think Para Ordnance did make them for their 3.5" P12, so the parts were available over the counter for the 3.5" Colt Compact/Officers for a retrofit.

Correct. The early Para P12s (and LDA 12s) used a conventional recoil system that was identical to the Colt Officers ACP, except that Colt used a .250" guide rod and dual springs while Para used a .330" guide rod with a single spring. When the later P12s and LDA 12s eliminated the barrel bushing and went to an "encapsulated recoil assembly," they also came out with a retrofit version intended for use in the older pistols. I have two of them in a drawer on my work bench. I got them when they first came out, but never felt any need to install them in a pistol.

I agree ... the flimsiest-looking part is the extremely thin flange at the back end, that seats against the frame abutment surface.

cw308 · January 18, 2018, 05:40 PM

RickB and Aguila Blanca
I thought I was the only one thinking that back plate was pretty lame in the recoil assembly . I'm very happy with the quality of the EGW unit very solid one piece back plate an guide rail. Hopefully it operates as good as it looks . I always keep records , round count & loads. I have back up springs for both assemblies . Do you when cleaning check recoil spring length to record changes ?

**Aguila Blanca** · January 18, 2018, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw308

Do you when cleaning check recoil spring length to record changes ?

Nope. Life's too short.

If the gun starts malfunctioning, then I'll start checking things to find out why. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

cw308 · January 19, 2018, 10:33 AM

Aguila Blanca
I favor benchrest 308 Cal. in the warmer months outdoors , I shoot handgun indoor range in the cold months. The last few years I like handgun shooting just as much . With rifle shooting I keep records on how many rounds through the barrel for accurate barrel life , I wouldn't want the barrel to crap out in the middle of the summer . I don't change my barrels , I send them out . Hand gun is alittle different , l tend to baby the firearm , I have back up springs an assemblies . I clean after every range trip which I also enjoy . I clean with Ballistol but every time my wife smells the stuff , she turns into that girl in The Exorcist . Do my cleaning outdoors . I will shoot , clean & just enjoy the sport . Will still check on things or l wouldn't be talking on the forum . This forum has nice helpful people giving good advice like yourself. Thank You ,. Chris

January 16, 2018, 12:29 PM	#1
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Changed the dual spring assembly on Colt Defender The assembly on the gun , even though it works looks pretty flimsy. Found a company that has a change to a solid full size guide rod using a #22 flat spring using a reverse plug . EGW is the company , I ordered an installed in my 45 . Will test on Thursday . I have a Colt New Agent in 45acp it's the same as the Defender , Has anyone installed one on their gun , if so let me know how you like it.

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January 16, 2018, 04:38 PM	#2
shootniron Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,599	I have the gun...never changed it and it has been fine with the factory setup...although, it has been replaced due to round count. The new one should work well for you.

January 16, 2018, 06:41 PM	#3
625TC Member Join Date: January 15, 2018 Posts: 67	I have made the conversion on four different guns. I love it

January 16, 2018, 07:27 PM	#5
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Thank You All for answering . I changed the assembly not because it gave me a problem , only because it looked like the weakest point on the gun , a plunger held by a e clip just bothered me . The single spring with a solid steel full size guide rail one piece is Rock solid . May not function any better but I feel better with a stronger assembly . Chris

January 16, 2018, 08:00 PM	#6
625TC Member Join Date: January 15, 2018 Posts: 67	assembly and disassembly became easier or at least it is to me. The slide does not batter the frame, longer spring life, And I know this is very subjective I trust this set up more

January 16, 2018, 08:05 PM	#7
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	625TC Which assembly did you go with ?

January 16, 2018, 08:09 PM	#8
625TC Member Join Date: January 15, 2018 Posts: 67	I actually made a two piece guide rod on the lath, The used a 26lbs single recoil spring from wolf, Works great

January 16, 2018, 08:10 PM	#9
625TC Member Join Date: January 15, 2018 Posts: 67	If I can figure out how to post pictures I will post some

January 16, 2018, 11:46 PM	#10
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	625TC Would love to see pictures . Nice to make improvements on the original design yourself. Need the right equipment an know how to use it . Never worked a lath . Good talking to you. Chris

January 17, 2018, 07:44 AM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	I find it somewhat ironic that the type of recoil assembly used on the Colt Defender (and many other compact 1911s from various manufacturers) was widely hailed as a big improvement over a standard guide rod and recoil spring when the new type assemblies were introduced. Now we're looking to go back to a variation on the old system, and that's being touted as an improvement ... on the improvement. Marketing -- where would we be without it?

January 17, 2018, 08:23 AM	#12
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Aguila Blanca Your thinking makes sense to me , changes from single to double spring recoil assembly. If the guide rod assembly was stronger without a post and back plate held together by a e clip I may have never looked to improve the assembly . The new assembly from EGW single spring is made much stronger . I didn't through out Colt's assembly , I have a spare complete assembly , springs & e clips. Will see how the EGW assembly holds up . Nothing wrong with trying is there. I'll let everyone know how it works out for sure . Thanks for answering my post , Chris

January 17, 2018, 02:51 PM	#14
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	RickB I'm testing the assembly tomorrow , hopefully it will work fine . Thanks for adding to the conversation. Chris

January 18, 2018, 03:21 PM	#15
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Tested the EGW assembly , worked Perfect . 100 rounds ran 100% without a problem , I had my fingers crossed with the first magazine . On the Colt assembly that e clip to me is a problem weighting to happen . It's only 100 rounds , hopefully it continues to work. . So far I'm happy with the new assembly.

January 18, 2018, 03:53 PM	#17
625TC Member Join Date: January 15, 2018 Posts: 67	Glad it works for you. Keep range updates coming

January 18, 2018, 04:06 PM	#18
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	625TC I sure will , Happy an Healthy New Year . Chris

January 18, 2018, 05:40 PM	#21
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	RickB and Aguila Blanca I thought I was the only one thinking that back plate was pretty lame in the recoil assembly . I'm very happy with the quality of the EGW unit very solid one piece back plate an guide rail. Hopefully it operates as good as it looks . I always keep records , round count & loads. I have back up springs for both assemblies . Do you when cleaning check recoil spring length to record changes ?

January 19, 2018, 10:33 AM	#23
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Aguila Blanca I favor benchrest 308 Cal. in the warmer months outdoors , I shoot handgun indoor range in the cold months. The last few years I like handgun shooting just as much . With rifle shooting I keep records on how many rounds through the barrel for accurate barrel life , I wouldn't want the barrel to crap out in the middle of the summer . I don't change my barrels , I send them out . Hand gun is alittle different , l tend to baby the firearm , I have back up springs an assemblies . I clean after every range trip which I also enjoy . I clean with Ballistol but every time my wife smells the stuff , she turns into that girl in The Exorcist . Do my cleaning outdoors . I will shoot , clean & just enjoy the sport . Will still check on things or l wouldn't be talking on the forum . This forum has nice helpful people giving good advice like yourself. Thank You ,. Chris