Gunsmith fees to remove a screw?

Mike38 · January 21, 2017, 02:40 PM

I went and looked at a Hamden High Standard Victor this morning. Probably would have bought it but..... It currently has a red dot sight and mount on it, and in the center screw holding the mount to the barrel, someone rounded an allen screw key, then it broke off in the screw head. There is no way for me to remove the screw. Being smart enough to know I shouldn't attempt it, what would be a ball park figure I could expect to have to pay a gunsmith to remove it for me? If the current owner, a gun shop dealer, can't or won't remove it, I want to reduce the price enough to cover fees charged by a good smith to remove it for me, plus my travel expenses. I have no idea what smiths get for hourly rates, so I'm asking here. If it matters, I'm in north central Illinois. Also, any suggestions on who could do this for me? Thanks.

AzShooter · January 21, 2017, 02:49 PM

A decent gunsmith will probably charge you $20. It's worth it to get the job done right.

g.willikers · January 21, 2017, 02:55 PM

Boy, most gunsmiths in our area charge $20 when you walk in the door.
More even if they have to get out of their chair.
What did you mean by "then it broke off in the screw head."
The allen tool is broken off in the screw?
Flush or is there a bit of it sticking out?
If so, there might be enough of it to solder something to it as an aid to removing it.
Maybe even with a small vise grip??
Sometimes a buggered up screw head can be coaxed out with side strokes and a tiny chisel
Do you have a picture?

Mike38 · January 21, 2017, 03:08 PM

There is maybe .050 of the broken allen key sticking above the top surface of the screw. Looks to me like someone used an old worn allen key that twisted in the socket head screw then snapped off. I know I'm not going to attempt it, but someone with the right equipment and patience could probably get it out in 5 minutes. If it only costs $20 and my travel, that's no big deal, but I work as an Electrician, and the company I work for gets $90 per hour, one hour minimum. I kind of figured gunsmiths are around that price range.

Scorch · January 21, 2017, 03:12 PM

Drilling out a screw with an Allen wrench stuck in it will probably cost more just because the smith will have to use a carbide drill to get a clean hole in it. But instead of asking online, why don't you go ask your gunsmith?

SGW Gunsmith · January 21, 2017, 04:24 PM

There are some things that I will do to help a "new" person with a fairly simple problem, and with the intention of making that person a frequent customer. Stuff happens, and screws will indeed have heads get twisted off because the previous owner over-did it with Loctite, or twisted a hex head off a screw.
$20.00 would be a very fair price, for the effort involved with removing a broken off screw. Also, the care involved with leaving no trace of the work being done, but still successful, is the mark of a caring 'smith, and one who wants a customer for life.

A broken off hex wrench is not an insurmountable a task, but it does require some tooling that will penetrate hard metal.

**JohnKSa** · January 21, 2017, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Looks to me like someone used an old worn allen key that twisted in the socket head screw then snapped off.

My guess is that the screw has threadlocker to keep it in place.

Step 1: The user tried to power it out rather than touching a soldering iron to the screw first to soften the threadlocker. That's how the hole was rounded out.

Step 2: The user selected the next size larger allen wrench and hammered it into the rounded out hole.

Step 3: Force was applied and the allen wrench snapped.

Step 4: Sell the gun.

Wyosmith · January 21, 2017, 04:35 PM

I can't say what others charge. I am sure some over charge.

I ask $10-$15 depending on how long it takes.

A "big-job" takes me about 15 minutes. At 15 minutes, that amounts to 1/4 of an hour, so at $15 per 15 minutes it comes to $60 an hour.

I think that's enough.
Don't you?

DaleA · January 21, 2017, 07:40 PM

Wyosmith...I think $15 is a bit on the light side. You've undoubtedly got some paperwork to do too. Nothing happens without that. I'd be happy if it were in the neighborhood of $30.

jag2 · January 21, 2017, 09:54 PM

I admit that I've never had to deal with a screw that has loctite applied. I can see how the screw may have rounded but I don't think I've heard of an Allen wrench breaking. Guess maybe they can but I've never seen it happen. Just doesn't sound right.

**JohnKSa** · January 21, 2017, 10:01 PM

I've broken more than one. They are made of very hard steel (as are most tools) which means that although they will flex a little, they will break if flexed too much.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 22, 2017, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jag2

I admit that I've never had to deal with a screw that has loctite applied. I can see how the screw may have rounded but I don't think I've heard of an Allen wrench breaking. Guess maybe they can but I've never seen it happen. Just doesn't sound right.

There's Loctite, and there's Loctite, and then there's Loctite. They offer about ten or so different formulations of thread locker. For general purposes, we typically encounter purple (light hold for very small screws), blue (for medium hold and larger screws that you may want to remove0, red (for high hold and large fasteners, heat required to remove), and green (just hope you never need to take it apart). For a sight on a semi-auto I would probably use blue but I can easily imagine someone using red "just to be safe."

HiBC · January 22, 2017, 05:10 AM

I won't tell you what another person will charge for the work.
I will suggest you choose someone with a milling machine to do the work.

No,it is NOT a job for vise grips,chisel tapping,hand drills,etc.

With a mill,there is precise positioning,rigidity,and control.

A touch with a ball mill will spot a regular surface.That way the tip of a center drill will not be deflected and snap off.(Now THAT can be a headache!)Then,ONE (of several) possibilities is a left handed drill.
Good luck! A Victor is a prize!! I miss mine.

Hunter Customs · January 22, 2017, 09:38 AM

Quote:

I will suggest you choose someone with a milling machine to do the work.

No,it is NOT a job for vise grips,chisel tapping,hand drills,etc.

With a mill,there is precise positioning,rigidity,and control.

I whole heartedly agree with the above statement.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

g.willikers · January 22, 2017, 09:48 AM

Quote:

No,it is NOT a job for vise grips,chisel tapping,hand drills,etc.

I've done successful removals of countless threaded screws, bolts, 'etc without benefit of a machine shop.
It's easy to spend more time finding one than fixing the problem.
Especially after working hours or weekends when things are most prone to break.
Spend time around race tracks and you will pick up all kinds of useful tricks.
Technique counts.
P.S.
Red Loctite can dissolve in some of the nastier bore cleaners.
Just make sure all removal parts have been removed as the Loctite can run and re-adhere.

James K · January 22, 2017, 02:01 PM

That is one of those jobs that sounds simple but anyone who claims to have never had a problem in doing it is certainly lucky.

Jim

old bear · January 22, 2017, 03:15 PM

For the O/P's sake I hope I'm wrong. But if he uses a "true" Gunsmith, who is also a master machinist, and any qualified gunsmith will have more work than he can deal with. I've have to think a base price will be in the $50.00 per hour range with a one hour Minimum fee.

g.willikers · January 22, 2017, 04:35 PM

Quote:

anyone who claims to have never had a problem in doing it is certainly lucky.

Hey, that ain't luck, it's skill.

As old bear sez, take something to a genuine gunsmith and be prepared to wait, and wait and.....
The last time I did it took many weeks to get it back.
And this was a good friend who fit it in between jobs.
Otherwise it would have been months.

HiBC · January 22, 2017, 06:19 PM

g.willikers.....What do you do when your methods don't work? You goober it up THEN take it to the smith. The smith thinks you are a special kind of guy.
A "skilled" individual.

A Victor is a really nice handgun. $20? $40? $60? If the gun comes out with the problem fixed right and no further goobering,it does not matter.
This isn't racing. A Victor is not a "Claimer" or a demo derby car .

If the race car came via Carrol Shelby or Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrarri or Buggatti,they would not use chisels and a vice grips.

The racecars you refer to are merely passing through your hands to the crusher.

Some folks would use a cold chisel and a claw hammer with one claw broke off to remove the sidelocks on a Parker .

243winxb · January 22, 2017, 06:58 PM

Google

Quote:

Brownells SHOP PRICE SURVEY

Gunplummer · January 22, 2017, 07:45 PM

That used to be everyday stuff for me (Small screws in boring/turning tools). The worst part about the gun end is trying to hold it straight in something. I have seen a lot of guns that sustained more damage from clamping the gun than from the actual removal of the broken screw. At the very minimum, a small drill press. I just removed a broken Easy-Out on Friday. They should make them illegal. Worse than taking a broken tap out.

HiBC · January 22, 2017, 09:09 PM

A trick I have used to get a lot of broken taps out: A roll pin ,OD just under tap drill size. Grind slots in it with a cutoff wheel across the end to make prongs,or fingers,to engage the flutes of the tap.

Before you use it,pick/blow out chips and shattered tap bits.Put the rollpin in a little chuck.Use tap fluid. Engage the prongs and just try to get any movement.
Then its like rocking out a stuck car. I've used that on 2-56 and 4-40 taps deep in stainless.

Then there is the sinker EDM ! That works,too.

g.willikers · January 22, 2017, 10:45 PM

HiBC,
You don't like my suggestions, don't use them.
You make unsupported assumptions, and you know what is said about assumptions.

Quote:

It currently has a red dot sight and mount on it, and in the center screw holding the mount to the barrel, someone rounded an allen screw key, then it broke off in the screw head.

Hard to mess up the gun when it's the mount being worked on.
Mounts are repairable or replaceable if the results aren't satisfactory once the screw is out.
You misspelled Bugatti.
Carroll Shelby, too.

TRX · January 23, 2017, 12:56 PM

> I've have to think a base price will be in the $50.00
> per hour range with a one hour Minimum fee.

If I could farm that sort of thing out to a competent and reliable shop, I'd gladly pay $50 and pass it on. It would be worth it for everyone concerned.

Blindstitch · January 23, 2017, 02:40 PM

A pictures worth a thousand words. I looked up the gun and it doesn't sound like a big deal even if people are going to fight over methods. Try to get $30 off and take it to a competent gunsmith.

January 21, 2017, 02:40 PM	#1
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Gunsmith fees to remove a screw? I went and looked at a Hamden High Standard Victor this morning. Probably would have bought it but..... It currently has a red dot sight and mount on it, and in the center screw holding the mount to the barrel, someone rounded an allen screw key, then it broke off in the screw head. There is no way for me to remove the screw. Being smart enough to know I shouldn't attempt it, what would be a ball park figure I could expect to have to pay a gunsmith to remove it for me? If the current owner, a gun shop dealer, can't or won't remove it, I want to reduce the price enough to cover fees charged by a good smith to remove it for me, plus my travel expenses. I have no idea what smiths get for hourly rates, so I'm asking here. If it matters, I'm in north central Illinois. Also, any suggestions on who could do this for me? Thanks.

January 21, 2017, 02:55 PM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Boy, most gunsmiths in our area charge $20 when you walk in the door. More even if they have to get out of their chair. What did you mean by "then it broke off in the screw head." The allen tool is broken off in the screw? Flush or is there a bit of it sticking out? If so, there might be enough of it to solder something to it as an aid to removing it. Maybe even with a small vise grip?? Sometimes a buggered up screw head can be coaxed out with side strokes and a tiny chisel Do you have a picture? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; January 21, 2017 at 03:02 PM.

January 21, 2017, 03:12 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Drilling out a screw with an Allen wrench stuck in it will probably cost more just because the smith will have to use a carbide drill to get a clean hole in it. But instead of asking online, why don't you go ask your gunsmith? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 21, 2017, 10:01 PM	#11
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	I've broken more than one. They are made of very hard steel (as are most tools) which means that although they will flex a little, they will break if flexed too much. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

January 21, 2017, 02:49 PM	#2
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	A decent gunsmith will probably charge you $20. It's worth it to get the job done right.

January 21, 2017, 03:08 PM	#4
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	There is maybe .050 of the broken allen key sticking above the top surface of the screw. Looks to me like someone used an old worn allen key that twisted in the socket head screw then snapped off. I know I'm not going to attempt it, but someone with the right equipment and patience could probably get it out in 5 minutes. If it only costs $20 and my travel, that's no big deal, but I work as an Electrician, and the company I work for gets $90 per hour, one hour minimum. I kind of figured gunsmiths are around that price range.

January 21, 2017, 04:24 PM	#6
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	There are some things that I will do to help a "new" person with a fairly simple problem, and with the intention of making that person a frequent customer. Stuff happens, and screws will indeed have heads get twisted off because the previous owner over-did it with Loctite, or twisted a hex head off a screw. $20.00 would be a very fair price, for the effort involved with removing a broken off screw. Also, the care involved with leaving no trace of the work being done, but still successful, is the mark of a caring 'smith, and one who wants a customer for life. A broken off hex wrench is not an insurmountable a task, but it does require some tooling that will penetrate hard metal.

January 21, 2017, 04:35 PM	#8
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	I can't say what others charge. I am sure some over charge. I ask $10-$15 depending on how long it takes. A "big-job" takes me about 15 minutes. At 15 minutes, that amounts to 1/4 of an hour, so at $15 per 15 minutes it comes to $60 an hour. I think that's enough. Don't you?

January 21, 2017, 07:40 PM	#9
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Wyosmith...I think $15 is a bit on the light side. You've undoubtedly got some paperwork to do too. Nothing happens without that. I'd be happy if it were in the neighborhood of $30.

January 21, 2017, 09:54 PM	#10
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	I admit that I've never had to deal with a screw that has loctite applied. I can see how the screw may have rounded but I don't think I've heard of an Allen wrench breaking. Guess maybe they can but I've never seen it happen. Just doesn't sound right.

January 22, 2017, 05:10 AM	#13
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I won't tell you what another person will charge for the work. I will suggest you choose someone with a milling machine to do the work. No,it is NOT a job for vise grips,chisel tapping,hand drills,etc. With a mill,there is precise positioning,rigidity,and control. A touch with a ball mill will spot a regular surface.That way the tip of a center drill will not be deflected and snap off.(Now THAT can be a headache!)Then,ONE (of several) possibilities is a left handed drill. Good luck! A Victor is a prize!! I miss mine.

January 22, 2017, 02:01 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That is one of those jobs that sounds simple but anyone who claims to have never had a problem in doing it is certainly lucky. Jim

January 22, 2017, 03:15 PM	#17
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	For the O/P's sake I hope I'm wrong. But if he uses a "true" Gunsmith, who is also a master machinist, and any qualified gunsmith will have more work than he can deal with. I've have to think a base price will be in the $50.00 per hour range with a one hour Minimum fee.

January 22, 2017, 06:19 PM	#19
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	g.willikers.....What do you do when your methods don't work? You goober it up THEN take it to the smith. The smith thinks you are a special kind of guy. A "skilled" individual. A Victor is a really nice handgun. $20? $40? $60? If the gun comes out with the problem fixed right and no further goobering,it does not matter. This isn't racing. A Victor is not a "Claimer" or a demo derby car . If the race car came via Carrol Shelby or Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrarri or Buggatti,they would not use chisels and a vice grips. The racecars you refer to are merely passing through your hands to the crusher. Some folks would use a cold chisel and a claw hammer with one claw broke off to remove the sidelocks on a Parker .

January 22, 2017, 07:45 PM	#21
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	That used to be everyday stuff for me (Small screws in boring/turning tools). The worst part about the gun end is trying to hold it straight in something. I have seen a lot of guns that sustained more damage from clamping the gun than from the actual removal of the broken screw. At the very minimum, a small drill press. I just removed a broken Easy-Out on Friday. They should make them illegal. Worse than taking a broken tap out.

January 22, 2017, 09:09 PM	#22
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	A trick I have used to get a lot of broken taps out: A roll pin ,OD just under tap drill size. Grind slots in it with a cutoff wheel across the end to make prongs,or fingers,to engage the flutes of the tap. Before you use it,pick/blow out chips and shattered tap bits.Put the rollpin in a little chuck.Use tap fluid. Engage the prongs and just try to get any movement. Then its like rocking out a stuck car. I've used that on 2-56 and 4-40 taps deep in stainless. Then there is the sinker EDM ! That works,too.

January 23, 2017, 12:56 PM	#24
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	> I've have to think a base price will be in the $50.00 > per hour range with a one hour Minimum fee. If I could farm that sort of thing out to a competent and reliable shop, I'd gladly pay $50 and pass it on. It would be worth it for everyone concerned.

January 23, 2017, 02:40 PM	#25
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	A pictures worth a thousand words. I looked up the gun and it doesn't sound like a big deal even if people are going to fight over methods. Try to get $30 off and take it to a competent gunsmith.