12 G Slug for bear defense?

JASON KRASSOW · January 31, 2005, 11:05 PM

I have a single shot survival shotgun that I use while backpacking. I was curious how effective a 12 g slug would be for bear defense? Thanks..

Romulus · February 1, 2005, 01:05 AM

I would venture the guess that, with the single shot at your disposal being placed at center of mass or thereabouts, it would stop the beast by causing death.

Romulus · February 1, 2005, 01:06 AM

Nonetheless a multi-shot weapon might give you greater peace of mind. Pumps are cheap...

mathman · February 1, 2005, 01:09 AM

Quote:

I would venture the guess that, with the single shot at your disposal being placed at center of mass or thereabouts, it would stop the beast by causing death.

I agree...just don't miss.

43061 · February 1, 2005, 01:40 AM

I have to ask what Plan B is if you miss? I’m thinking that once Boo Boo the bear is wounded you’re going to have a much worse situation on your hands.

Years ago I had a friend; mind you he wasn’t the smartest friend I ever had, shot a bear that took an interest in his tacklebox while he was fishing. I don’t remember the caliber, but six shots just made the bear mad enough to chase him to his pickup. He apparently is faster on his feet than he is in his head. The bear then tore up his pickup, not enough to stop him from getting away though.

Next thing my friend had to deal with was one really *&^ off Ranger. The Ranger drove him back to the last place he had seen the bear, handed my friend a rifle and told him to take care of the problem he had created.

He tells the story much better than I do and it is really quite funny when he tells it; the truth of the matter is having a *&^off bear is not a laughing matter, unless of course you survive and tell stories as well as my friend did.

Para Bellum · February 1, 2005, 03:55 PM

There is an extra strong Taser (electric defence gun) which is designed to stop bears and bulls.

Spencer · February 1, 2005, 06:06 PM

I spent the summer of 1997 on Kodiak Island in Alaska, where the bears are REALLY big. I took a ferry to the island from the mainland & there was a ranger on board that gave a presentation on the bears on the island (it was like a 12-hour ferry ride). She told me that a shotgun slug to the head of a Kodiak Grizzly would, at best, knock the animal unconscious.

It is easy to argue the statement, because if you shoot the animal in the eye with a slug, it will probably die from brain rearrangement. However, her point was that a big bear’s skull is extremely thick. If you only get one shot, don’t try to take its head off; shoot for the vitals

43061 · February 9, 2005, 01:27 AM

I have to say one more thing about your using a single shot survival shotgun. The makers of those shotguns are not envisioning you using a shotgun for defense against a bear. Survival shotguns are made so you can shoot dinner as it runs past you. Think Thumper or Bambi!

Somewhere on the internet there are pictures of a man that had become dinner for a large bear. I would suggest you find those pictures and decide for yourself if you still want to rely on a single shot to save your life.

Huntergirl · February 9, 2005, 03:07 AM

I also wouldn't feel very confident using a single shot for bear defense. Another thing. Have you shot slugs out of that thing yet? Could be a mighty recoil depending on the kind of slug, if the shotgun is a lightweight as I suspect it would be.

Even a home defense pump with 18 1/2in barrel, I think would be better. There's also the 45-70, the 444Marlin guide guns and the trapper 44mag in lever actions, that are short and pretty easy carry, and pack a punch for bear defense. And don't forget bear spray. It comes in a big bottle, yet has a carry pouch to put on your belt.

OBIWAN · February 9, 2005, 07:43 AM

Practice reloading on the run

Travel with someone slower than you

mete · February 9, 2005, 08:31 AM

Bears can move at 30-40 mph, they charge on all fours. A head shot may glance off the head because of the curved shape [that happens with people too ! ] One shot is probably all you'll get anyway. Take a dog with you , that might distract the bear and help you survive.

Wraith · February 9, 2005, 10:22 AM

Actually the dog is there in hopes to satisfy the bear's hunger.

Sc0 · February 10, 2005, 10:10 AM

Now what "would" happen if the dog outruns you?

scbair · February 10, 2005, 11:48 AM

The dog could easily outrun me . . . UNLESS there's a bear chasing me!!

In Dixie, the biggest critter I'm apt to have to face would be either a black bear or a wild or feral hog, and the chances of such an attack are slim to none. However, when I'm beating around the brush, and not armed with a rifle or .44 magnum revolver, I like to carry my 12 gauge, with a couple of Brenneke slugs ready, just 'cause I can!

Para Bellum · February 11, 2005, 02:16 PM

...ever thought of carrying a living skunk on your backpack? I'm sure it will wet it's pants once a bear approaches. And that might stink the bear away

but, seriously: I wouldn't rely on a single shot weapon or a gun with so little penetration as a shotgun. Ask parkrangers or big game hunters what calibers they use to kill bear. I guess its something like a .50 BMG. Pissing a bear of (except with a skunk

) might be the last thing you want and - ever do in your life.

mdhunter · February 11, 2005, 05:34 PM

Where do you normally hike, and which type of bear frequent that area?

I wouldn't consider a single shot shotgun adequate bear defense, and also would not employ taser or spray (both have been known to malfunction) if you can carry a gun. A compact repeating shotgun or rifle is your best bet if you're really interested in a defensive weapon.

.44 magnum rifle, or 45-70, with 300 grain, strongly constructed bullets would be my suggestion, since they're somewhat compact for rifles and you're more interested in backpacking than hunting.

Huntergirl · February 11, 2005, 07:15 PM

For the record, many Park rangers use a 12GA alternating 00buck with slugs for dispensing a rogue bear.

Para Bellum · February 12, 2005, 04:31 PM

There is a short Winchester lever action rifle, the "94 Trapper". It's only 34 1/4" in overall length and you can have it with 5 shots in 30-30 or 9 shots in .44 Magnum. Sounds reasonable to me. However I have no relyable information on the effects of those calibers on a bear, so we must rely on "mdhunter's" advice on the caliber. I assume though, that one or up to nine hits with .44 Mag from a rifle with a 16" barrel to the chest or even head of a beast will take the fun out of attacking you for every creature I could imagine. If it doesn't kill it, I assume it will make it back off...

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=094&cat=003C

LAkid · February 13, 2005, 05:55 PM

You never mentioned what type of BEAR

black bear...grizzly or kodiak....Polar
.........>
starting with the smallest and working up have you ever heard the stories of those hunting these bears

shooting one not aware of you is one thing...then shooting 1 pissed off and charging you is another.

reports of hunters using 7mm...300 win. mag rifles emptying clips into the bear at full charge only to find out the first 2 shots blew out the bears heart and it still kept charging.

single shot....I DON't think so!!!!

Nuts590 · February 13, 2005, 06:14 PM

I would hesitate to take anything smaller than a 45/70 for bear. Then again I happen to enjoy this mortal coil and hesitate to shrug it off!

If I HAD to have a shotgun, it would likely be something short, with a very large capacity!! Now that the AWB is gone, consider an 11-87 with a 8-9 shot extension and a folding stock.

carebear · February 14, 2005, 07:09 PM

As stated, 12 guage pump with slug is probably the most common bear protection in Alaska for grizzlys/browns.
I'd be less confident with a single shot but in most realistic defense scenarios (bear unseen in brush at close range until it attacks) you aren't going to have time for many shots anyway.

If it is all you have, use the slug and practice hitting quickly (<2 seconds)from however you usually carry it.

I'd recommend upgrading to a pump though. Lots of other uses for them too.

Para Bellum,

.44 Mag is a little light, if you are going to be carrying a rifle anyway. You're better off with a Garrett or Buffalo Bore-level .45 Colt or bigger.

OBIWAN · February 14, 2005, 08:59 PM

No...no....this could work...even with the single shot...AND the dog

Just shoot the dog and THEN run...

( I just know I am gonna get it for that one)

gburner · February 15, 2005, 09:43 AM

Some points to consider...
Firing slugs from a single shot weapon is a painful proposition but not nealy as painful as having a griz playing handball with your huevos.

A reliable pump gun (Remington 870, Mossy 590, etc) can be had for not much money, even less used. I just purchased a Remington 870 Magnum that was a police trade in for $129.00 out the door. It holds 6 rounds and has 5 waiting in a butt cuff. Get one with an 18 inch barrel and mount a sling on it for field carry. Load it like the rangers do. They have plenty of experience.

Practice, practice, practice.

If you insist on using the single shot...file down the front sight flush with the barrel. It wont hurt as bad when the bear jams it where the sun don't shine.

Huntergirl · February 15, 2005, 01:56 PM

I think Garrett now carries a mighty 44mag hammerhead hardcast cartridge among their offerings, that could be the ticket for carrying in a trapper, depending on whether the Winchester can handle it. Garrett's cartridges will specify what rifles can safely handle the load on their website. I've used their 45-70 hammerheads. They're pricey, but they're tough.
I also won't discount the effectiveness of bearspray. While walking a trail late during elk season, a blackie came right out of a depression, where there was a gutpile. Totally unprepared mentally for drawing my weapon, I managed to biff him with bearspray fired from my belt. He backed off quickly, pawing at and shaking his head , while I backed down the trail ,eyes tearing, face burning. Had to throw my clothes away. But the stuff WORKED. In retrospect, I smelled the gutpile a good hundred yards before coming on it, shoulda been watching and making my presence known, or use another trail.

Jungle Work · February 17, 2005, 01:10 PM

Single Shot?
12 gauge Slug?
To Kill a Bear?
not me!

I once killed a Grizzly with a 12guage 870 Police Gun with Rifle Sights, but it took three slugs. The Bear had an attitude problem in a camp ground.

Jungle Work

January 31, 2005, 11:05 PM	#1
JASON KRASSOW Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2002 Location: DISCOVERY BAY,CA Posts: 106	12 G Slug for bear defense? I have a single shot survival shotgun that I use while backpacking. I was curious how effective a 12 g slug would be for bear defense? Thanks..

February 1, 2005, 01:05 AM	#2
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	I would venture the guess that, with the single shot at your disposal being placed at center of mass or thereabouts, it would stop the beast by causing death. __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

February 1, 2005, 01:06 AM	#3
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Nonetheless a multi-shot weapon might give you greater peace of mind. Pumps are cheap... __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

February 1, 2005, 03:55 PM	#6
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Taser There is an extra strong Taser (electric defence gun) which is designed to stop bears and bulls. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

February 9, 2005, 01:27 AM	#8
43061 Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 45	I have to say one more thing about your using a single shot survival shotgun. The makers of those shotguns are not envisioning you using a shotgun for defense against a bear. Survival shotguns are made so you can shoot dinner as it runs past you. Think Thumper or Bambi! Somewhere on the internet there are pictures of a man that had become dinner for a large bear. I would suggest you find those pictures and decide for yourself if you still want to rely on a single shot to save your life. __________________ "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease to be amused."

February 1, 2005, 01:40 AM	#5
43061 Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 45	I have to ask what Plan B is if you miss? I’m thinking that once Boo Boo the bear is wounded you’re going to have a much worse situation on your hands. Years ago I had a friend; mind you he wasn’t the smartest friend I ever had, shot a bear that took an interest in his tacklebox while he was fishing. I don’t remember the caliber, but six shots just made the bear mad enough to chase him to his pickup. He apparently is faster on his feet than he is in his head. The bear then tore up his pickup, not enough to stop him from getting away though. Next thing my friend had to deal with was one really &^ off Ranger. The Ranger drove him back to the last place he had seen the bear, handed my friend a rifle and told him to take care of the problem he had created. He tells the story much better than I do and it is really quite funny when he tells it; the truth of the matter is having a &^off bear is not a laughing matter, unless of course you survive and tell stories as well as my friend did.

February 1, 2005, 06:06 PM	#7
Spencer Member Join Date: November 27, 2004 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 53	I spent the summer of 1997 on Kodiak Island in Alaska, where the bears are REALLY big. I took a ferry to the island from the mainland & there was a ranger on board that gave a presentation on the bears on the island (it was like a 12-hour ferry ride). She told me that a shotgun slug to the head of a Kodiak Grizzly would, at best, knock the animal unconscious. It is easy to argue the statement, because if you shoot the animal in the eye with a slug, it will probably die from brain rearrangement. However, her point was that a big bear’s skull is extremely thick. If you only get one shot, don’t try to take its head off; shoot for the vitals

February 9, 2005, 03:07 AM	#9
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I also wouldn't feel very confident using a single shot for bear defense. Another thing. Have you shot slugs out of that thing yet? Could be a mighty recoil depending on the kind of slug, if the shotgun is a lightweight as I suspect it would be. Even a home defense pump with 18 1/2in barrel, I think would be better. There's also the 45-70, the 444Marlin guide guns and the trapper 44mag in lever actions, that are short and pretty easy carry, and pack a punch for bear defense. And don't forget bear spray. It comes in a big bottle, yet has a carry pouch to put on your belt.

February 9, 2005, 07:43 AM	#10
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	Practice reloading on the run Travel with someone slower than you

February 9, 2005, 08:31 AM	#11
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Bears can move at 30-40 mph, they charge on all fours. A head shot may glance off the head because of the curved shape [that happens with people too ! ] One shot is probably all you'll get anyway. Take a dog with you , that might distract the bear and help you survive.

February 9, 2005, 10:22 AM	#12
Wraith Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: The Free State Posts: 498	Actually the dog is there in hopes to satisfy the bear's hunger. __________________ June 23, 2003 GRATZ et al. v. BOLLINGER et al. The day America died. Never Forget 9/11. Cold dead hands...

February 10, 2005, 10:10 AM	#13
Sc0 Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3	Now what "would" happen if the dog outruns you?

February 10, 2005, 11:48 AM	#14
scbair Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 72	The dog could easily outrun me . . . UNLESS there's a bear chasing me!! In Dixie, the biggest critter I'm apt to have to face would be either a black bear or a wild or feral hog, and the chances of such an attack are slim to none. However, when I'm beating around the brush, and not armed with a rifle or .44 magnum revolver, I like to carry my 12 gauge, with a couple of Brenneke slugs ready, just 'cause I can!

February 11, 2005, 02:16 PM	#15
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	A skunk? ...ever thought of carrying a living skunk on your backpack? I'm sure it will wet it's pants once a bear approaches. And that might stink the bear away but, seriously: I wouldn't rely on a single shot weapon or a gun with so little penetration as a shotgun. Ask parkrangers or big game hunters what calibers they use to kill bear. I guess its something like a .50 BMG. Pissing a bear of (except with a skunk ) might be the last thing you want and - ever do in your life. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

February 11, 2005, 05:34 PM	#16
mdhunter Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 65	Grizzly or Black Bears? Where do you normally hike, and which type of bear frequent that area? I wouldn't consider a single shot shotgun adequate bear defense, and also would not employ taser or spray (both have been known to malfunction) if you can carry a gun. A compact repeating shotgun or rifle is your best bet if you're really interested in a defensive weapon. .44 magnum rifle, or 45-70, with 300 grain, strongly constructed bullets would be my suggestion, since they're somewhat compact for rifles and you're more interested in backpacking than hunting.

February 11, 2005, 07:15 PM	#17
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	For the record, many Park rangers use a 12GA alternating 00buck with slugs for dispensing a rogue bear.

February 12, 2005, 04:31 PM	#18
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	small effective rifle There is a short Winchester lever action rifle, the "94 Trapper". It's only 34 1/4" in overall length and you can have it with 5 shots in 30-30 or 9 shots in .44 Magnum. Sounds reasonable to me. However I have no relyable information on the effects of those calibers on a bear, so we must rely on "mdhunter's" advice on the caliber. I assume though, that one or up to nine hits with .44 Mag from a rifle with a 16" barrel to the chest or even head of a beast will take the fun out of attacking you for every creature I could imagine. If it doesn't kill it, I assume it will make it back off... http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=094&cat=003C __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

February 13, 2005, 05:55 PM	#19
LAkid Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CAlifornia Posts: 7	You never mentioned what type of BEAR black bear...grizzly or kodiak....Polar .........> starting with the smallest and working up have you ever heard the stories of those hunting these bears shooting one not aware of you is one thing...then shooting 1 pissed off and charging you is another. reports of hunters using 7mm...300 win. mag rifles emptying clips into the bear at full charge only to find out the first 2 shots blew out the bears heart and it still kept charging. single shot....I DON't think so!!!!

February 13, 2005, 06:14 PM	#20
Nuts590 Member Join Date: January 16, 2005 Posts: 28	I would hesitate to take anything smaller than a 45/70 for bear. Then again I happen to enjoy this mortal coil and hesitate to shrug it off! If I HAD to have a shotgun, it would likely be something short, with a very large capacity!! Now that the AWB is gone, consider an 11-87 with a 8-9 shot extension and a folding stock.

February 14, 2005, 07:09 PM	#21
carebear Junior member Join Date: December 8, 2001 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 494	As stated, 12 guage pump with slug is probably the most common bear protection in Alaska for grizzlys/browns. I'd be less confident with a single shot but in most realistic defense scenarios (bear unseen in brush at close range until it attacks) you aren't going to have time for many shots anyway. If it is all you have, use the slug and practice hitting quickly (<2 seconds)from however you usually carry it. I'd recommend upgrading to a pump though. Lots of other uses for them too. Para Bellum, .44 Mag is a little light, if you are going to be carrying a rifle anyway. You're better off with a Garrett or Buffalo Bore-level .45 Colt or bigger.

February 14, 2005, 08:59 PM	#22
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	No...no....this could work...even with the single shot...AND the dog Just shoot the dog and THEN run... ( I just know I am gonna get it for that one)

February 15, 2005, 09:43 AM	#23
gburner Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Location: at the intersection of naivete and cynicism Posts: 1,365	Some points to consider... Firing slugs from a single shot weapon is a painful proposition but not nealy as painful as having a griz playing handball with your huevos. A reliable pump gun (Remington 870, Mossy 590, etc) can be had for not much money, even less used. I just purchased a Remington 870 Magnum that was a police trade in for $129.00 out the door. It holds 6 rounds and has 5 waiting in a butt cuff. Get one with an 18 inch barrel and mount a sling on it for field carry. Load it like the rangers do. They have plenty of experience. Practice, practice, practice. If you insist on using the single shot...file down the front sight flush with the barrel. It wont hurt as bad when the bear jams it where the sun don't shine. __________________ 'You don't like guns? What other common household tools do you have an irrational loathing for?'

February 15, 2005, 01:56 PM	#24
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I think Garrett now carries a mighty 44mag hammerhead hardcast cartridge among their offerings, that could be the ticket for carrying in a trapper, depending on whether the Winchester can handle it. Garrett's cartridges will specify what rifles can safely handle the load on their website. I've used their 45-70 hammerheads. They're pricey, but they're tough. I also won't discount the effectiveness of bearspray. While walking a trail late during elk season, a blackie came right out of a depression, where there was a gutpile. Totally unprepared mentally for drawing my weapon, I managed to biff him with bearspray fired from my belt. He backed off quickly, pawing at and shaking his head , while I backed down the trail ,eyes tearing, face burning. Had to throw my clothes away. But the stuff WORKED. In retrospect, I smelled the gutpile a good hundred yards before coming on it, shoulda been watching and making my presence known, or use another trail. Last edited by Huntergirl; February 15, 2005 at 02:51 PM.

February 17, 2005, 01:10 PM	#25
Jungle Work Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Location: 20 Miles from Water, 2 Miles from Hell Posts: 282	Single Shot? 12 gauge Slug? To Kill a Bear? not me! I once killed a Grizzly with a 12guage 870 Police Gun with Rifle Sights, but it took three slugs. The Bear had an attitude problem in a camp ground. Jungle Work