March 13, 2018, 11:49 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 424
|
Hog Bullets
So reading up on one of the other posts about hunting/ARs, a lot of people use ARs for hog hunting due to fast follow up shots. Many people say .223 is marginal on deer, but it is still used quite a lot (mostly about shot placement, but that's a different discussion). I did a search and read a few posts about smaller/slower bullets being used to kill pigs/hogs in various instances, so I'm curious: what is considered the minimum for a humane kill on a hog? Feel free to suggest kinetic energy levels, velocity, bullet weight, etc..
|
March 13, 2018, 12:59 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Posts: 1,965
|
Quote:
|
|
March 13, 2018, 01:12 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 4,424
|
There are a bunch of folks that use the .223, but I'm not one of them. The 22 has to be placed exactly in the neck or head to drop them. My minimum is my Grendel with 123SST. I also agree with Dufus - my favorite is my 45 Colt Bisley with 275-285 Hard Cast at 1000fps. Blows through them to 50 yards at any angle. Watch Zen Archery's excellent videos, using the Grendel and the Creedmoor.
|
March 13, 2018, 03:03 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,809
|
A hog can weigh 60 lbs, or 600 lbs. What works well on the 60-160 lb hogs commonly shot, may not do as well on the rare 600 lbs hogs.
I think a 223 with a tough bullet designed to penetrate well should do just fine on hogs in 200 lb or less weight class. If hunting bigger ones then I'd move up to something designed for game that big. Which means 26 caliber or larger with proper bullets 120 gr or heavier. The actual bullet is far more important than caliber. The solid copper bullets made by Barnes and others really penetrate deep and make smaller calibers much more effective. Some of the heavy for caliber bonded bullets are pretty good too. I wouldn't recommend a soft, rapidly expanding bullet even in larger calibers such as 30-06.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill |
March 13, 2018, 03:21 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
So what is the minimum for a humane kill on a hog? Where are you planning on shooting the hog? From how far?
A rule of thumb to realize is that with hogs, if you do not do significant damage to the central nervous system, either by direct or indirect trauma, the hog will run. Even with a good shot to the lungs or heart, so the matter is then one of how far it will run and can you find it? It is not a surprise to see a hog shot and part of a lung hanging out of the exit wound and the hog go 100-150 yards. I shot a hog where the shot destroyed the heart and it still went over 70 yards. I have seen hogs with a pierced heart that went well over 100 yards. So how much time is acceptable for a hog (or any animal) to survive with a mortal wound for the wound to be considered humane? What is even worse is that sometimes they are shot, maybe even mortally, but because of adrenaline dumps, you can shoot them repeatedly and they don't go down unless you hit them in the CNS or the eventually die from blood loss. I have hunted with folks that would be hard pressed to make a humane kill with a 12 ga. rifled slug gun at 30 yards. True story - I was talking to a buddy about a hog I shot and lost. He went into his recitation of Capstick and how you need to "bring enough gun." Two weeks later, he had missed a trophy buck at 75 yards with his 12 ga slug gun and had struck the feeder leg in the process. So I had to ask, "How much is enough gun for a miss?" There is a guy on YouTube that head shoots hogs at 40-50 yards with .22 lr subsonic and does a great job with it. It doesn't take much to make a kill if you can place the bullet precisely where you want it to go and that spot is a critical spot. Lots of people use .223. I have in the past and will probably do it again at various points in the future. I find nothing wrong with it as a hog sniping round. By that I mean, just like with the guy and the .22 sub sonic, it works very well for single shot kills, when the bullet goes where it needs to go. Where lighter and smaller calibers have trouble is with less precise shots that do not hit immediately vital structures or do not hit them well. In doing less damage, the hog is less likely to collapse, so it is more likely to run farther, be lost to the hunter, and potentially survive. Quote:
6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are not the be all to end all of hog calibers, although both are quite good, particularly with good bullets such as Hornady SST or Berger VLD-Hunting. Both are far superior to .223/5.56 and are both still quite manageable for followup shots as needed, more so than with some larger calibers favored by many hunters, such as .308, .243, or even 6.5 Creedmore. I went to the Grendel from the .308 after a surgery and by the time I had healed up enough to go back to .308 had discovered that I was not being less successful with the Grendel on hogs than with the .308. Between that, less recoil, and increased capacity, I stayed with the Grendel. I like to try out different hunting bullets in the 6.5 Grendel. Some work much better than others. The nice thing about SST or VLD-Hunting is that both tend to do damage beyond the immediate wound channel, thereby increasing your odds of a successful, quicker kill. Both penetrate well, also. Neither is particularly meat friendly, however. If you want to use a .223 and can make a steady shot and hit within a 2" circle at whatever distance it is that you are shooting, know your hog anatomy and where your shot is going to go relative to the orientation of the hog, then .223 can be fine. If you are not making CNS shots and hunting where thick brush is nearby, don't be surprised if you lose a bunch of hogs.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
March 13, 2018, 04:02 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 31, 2013
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,705
|
Points all well taken. I have killed many hogs with the .223's, but have lost some as well. The 6.5 Grendel and Creedmore's are a great round for hogs, especially like was said with something like the SST bullets. Lots of damage to the CNS is the key...not a big hole through the chest.
|
March 13, 2018, 08:30 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Most of my hogs are killed under feeders, at ponds or on wheat fields. Average shot is <75 yards, often much less. Be prepared for a double lung shot hog to run up to 200 yards. They often die with their tongues hanging out.
i've killed hogs using .22 LR, .22 magnum, .223/5.56mm and numerous larger calibers. Pick the shots carefully and the .223 does a good job on hogs. Years ago i began shooting hogs with .50 caliber inline muzzleloaders. The 250 grain .452 SST bullet in a crush rib sabot worked very well . The 300 grain .452 XTP Magnum bullet is a great hog killer. Best saboted bullet i ever used is the hard cast 330 grain flat nose driven by 120-140 grains of powder. That bullet destroys both shoulders of a 300 pound hog leaving a huge exit hole. It often leaves a long streak of blood and gore on the off side. Killed some big hogs using .490 and .530 caliber patched round balls. Those round balls kill very well. The sounders are on the wheat fields and the trapping is slow. There are numerous big solitary boars running around our lease: Recently i began woods hunting using a 9.3X62 mm rifle and 286 grain bullets. So far i've killed 7 boars over 200 pounds with that rifle. All were shot in the heart/lung area, none went over 20 yards. |
March 15, 2018, 06:00 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 311
|
Hog are starting to show up on my farm here in Michigan, I carry a model 71winchester in 348 caliber, ok so you can kill them with a 223-22mag great but I want them dead right now !!!!
|
March 15, 2018, 07:39 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 30, 2005
Posts: 274
|
Head shot. Even air guns work at 20 yards.
Head/neck shot for any .17-.243 center fire using monolithic solid copper bullet. Any regular vital organ shots (very low to the chest on hogs) including head/neck shot .264 and up. Any standard SP bullet will do just fine. I still prefer neck/throat shot 100% of the time given the opportunity.
__________________
Video Hunting Library |
March 15, 2018, 09:21 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 18, 2017
Location: Northwest Texas
Posts: 107
|
Quote:
As for the rest of your advice........if your good at archery I suggest you stick with it. |
|
March 16, 2018, 09:48 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 4,424
|
Quote:
|
|
March 16, 2018, 11:36 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Posts: 1,965
|
Quote:
|
|
March 16, 2018, 02:57 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
Mr Hollowpoint hunts with some nice Quackenbush air rifles and hunts hogs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eUx_oEpyTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guB-o-6DrPA Here are others using air rifles... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDLGifC64IQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mCTl0lGyuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH3FBOQK6oY There are a whole bunch more, but as can be seen, they can work just fine and dandy.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
March 16, 2018, 05:01 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,526
|
DNS, I watched that first video you linked and it was impressive. A 430 grain bullet at over 800 fps sure did the job on that pig.
|
March 16, 2018, 05:06 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 376
|
I hog hunt here around the Charleston,SC area.
I only use the big calibers. Most of the time I carry a Marlin 45/70 or a .454 handgun. ( I do not use hollow points!) A bullet with a wide meplat works the best! Hogs are tuff to say the least. Ive seen a 300lb'er get up after a neck shot from a 30-06 at 30 yards....... I hope your a good shot with your small caliber.......................
__________________
Capt Rick Hiott Charleston,SC |
March 16, 2018, 05:25 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Posts: 1,965
|
Quote:
Is 300 the norm over yonder? They are rare here, although once in a while you can find one that big. Our pigs do not take elephant cartridges to take them down. Any thing from 22 LR on up with an appropriate bullet will do the job. I have shot one with my 460 just because. It wasn't a full house load and I just wanted to. I have only taken it out for that purpose just that once. Ir worked, but not an every day event by any means. Most everyone down this way uses the 223 Rem with 60 gr or heavier bullets. I don't have a 223 Rem, but I have shot a couple with the nephews DPMS. I like the 308 Win for hog hunting. But I have used almost everything on them that I have. Mt favorite is my 38-55 and a cast bullet. Mostly for nostalgia. Not much meat damage. |
|
March 16, 2018, 08:27 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 18, 2017
Location: Northwest Texas
Posts: 107
|
Well I have learned something about air rifles.When I think of air rifles I think of the .177 cals I keep around for the grandkids to terrorize the squirrels.
My apologies.......I had no idea |
March 16, 2018, 10:41 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,346
|
Quote:
__________________
"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison
|
|
March 17, 2018, 06:32 AM | #19 | |
Junior member
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
|
Quote:
If it puts down a bear, it'll put down a hog. On both critters, of course, shot-placement still matters. |
|
March 17, 2018, 08:11 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 20, 2010
Location: Pawleys Island
Posts: 1,563
|
It’s a hog, y’all are overthinking it. You put lead in the vermin period, if it dies right in its tracks or a mile away, you did the job. Nothing humane about eradicating vermin.
|
March 18, 2018, 09:11 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 11, 2005
Location: Manatee County, Florida
Posts: 1,976
|
Its been my experience that hogs are typically shot while feeding. Their heads bob up and down quite a bit while feeding which in my opinion rules out a head shot. A broadside shot into the chest organs is quite effective indeed assuming a decent cartridge is used. My daughter has taken big mulies in South Dakota shooting the 64 grain bullet (.223) as loaded in Winchester ammunition. Penetration and expansion were adequate. I prefer my 30-30 carbine for hogs shooting 170 grain Winchester ammunition. I have toppled them out to distances of approx 125 yards or so.
Jack
__________________
Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release. |
March 18, 2018, 04:28 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 28, 2005
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 526
|
A 556 can be perfectly adequate for Russians. My youngest daughter celebrated her 19th birthday by killing a 250 pound Russian with her birthday Ruger AR 556. One shot between the eyes at about 20 feet. One excited kid and one proud Dad.
BOARHUNTER |
March 18, 2018, 04:34 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 27, 2017
Posts: 351
|
A wild boar isn't considered a game animal. It's an invasive pest. You are basically doing an extermination, not a hunt. So you are not constrained by game hunting laws.
I would go with 55 GR FMJ 5.56. |
March 18, 2018, 05:25 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2013
Location: Near Heart of Texas
Posts: 870
|
Quote:
__________________
Visit my fictional blog "The dr Chronicles" about a laid-back Texan named dr - Enjoy! |
|
March 18, 2018, 06:07 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Posts: 235
|
convert your 223
Convert your 223 to a 6.8 SPC and use 120 grain SST. Hit them in the center of the neck=D.R.T. good 6.8 chat room with all your information.
__________________
Dusty: I'm kind of a big deal! Rob Pincus follower PDN NRA Lifetime Member, our only voice! |
Tags |
223 , ar15 , bullet weight , hogs , humane |
|
|