Thoughts about using old round in a modern rifle.....

Nathan · October 7, 2018, 02:50 PM

https://loaddata.com/Article/LabNote...ra-bullets/462

The author indicates that if you are loading 6.5x55 Swede in a modern bolt action, that the max pressure is 68000 psi instead of 46000 cup to 50000 cup most manuals show....

I can see this. Besides, I’m not loading anything above where I get serious pressure signs...

Dufus · October 7, 2018, 02:57 PM

The article has its faults. Berdan primed brass is reloadable, the author says it is not.

I would not load a 6.5x55 Swede to 65,000 psi under any circumstances. It doesn't matter to me if it is a new modern rifle.

If I have a new modern rifle in 30-30 Win and a bolt action, would I load it to 65,000 psi??

According to the author, I could. According to me, I won't.

Nathan · October 7, 2018, 03:04 PM

Berdan primers are not reloadable by me.....and I have quite a bit of equipment.

Brian Pierce is pretty reputable....that is why I’m posting for public comment...

Thanks for your opinion.

RC20 · October 7, 2018, 03:05 PM

Kind of a poor comparison of a 30-30 that is a weaker action type vs a bolt which is as solid as they get.

As long as you start low and work up, doing ALL the checks for pressure, you should be fine. Europeans are hunting with modern rifles in most cases.

Note it says Europeans are loading to 58k psi, not 65k that it can handle.

Berdon can be re-loaded but its a royal pain so while not technically accurate, realistically it is. Vast majority even advanced reloaders won't unless its the only case you can get.

Personal experience with the 7.5 Swiss (on a modern action) has it hitting pressure indicators before a 30-06 would though they are the same capacity.

My take is the shorter and wider column burns more efficiently and pressure is higher grain per gain (I could be wrong)

My chrono quit working so I can cross check identical power loads and see how they compare speed wise.

As long as you are cautious in the approach I don't see an issue with testing.

Its a very short article and clearly does not get into all the nuances. Nothing dangerous being advocated.

Paul B. · October 7, 2018, 05:16 PM

You could say the same thing regarding the 7x57 Mauser. Like the 6.5x55, American made ammo is kept to the 50KPSI range, or 45K C.U.P. if you prefer the old method. Properly handloaded it's a horse of a different color. It's no problem to do 2700 FPS and higher if I want from my Winchester M70 FWT. Same with the Ruger #1. They love those lose loads. However, if the rifle is an 1893 or 1895 Mauser one should use caution. The same would be for the 1896 Swedes even the later M38's. They're still just 1896 actions.
Paul B.

Dufus · October 7, 2018, 10:09 PM

RC: you missed it again. I said 30-30 in a modern bolt action.

Also, Paul B is absolutely correct in his 7x57 comments. Still, I would bet he ain't near 65K with his loads.

I would say we all agree that Savage makes modern rifles. A couple of years ago, there was a rash of catastrophic failures with their chambering in 300 RUM, which is a 65K cartridge. There was never any explanations that I heard that explained the failures.

Savage no longer chambers rifles for that particular cartridge.

I wonder why that is??

RC20 · October 7, 2018, 10:44 PM

Quote:

RC: you missed it again. I said 30-30 in a modern bolt action.

Ahh well, they call it perceived anticipation or some such. Never heard of a 30-30 in bolt. So off the rails I went once again!

What Savage found was that there were issues with the Ultra Mags that did not play happily with the existing barrel end that screws into the receiver.

The now have a larger barrel size (large thread) and have shifted magnums over to that as well.

Something to do with larger diameters of the RUM in the short cases.

The difference is pretty small but enough to stop the issue.

Dufus · October 7, 2018, 11:38 PM

Well, the 300RUM ain't exactly a short case, being longer and fatter than a 300 Weatherby.

They still don't catalog any RUM cartridges. So, did they really correct the issue?

Nathan · October 8, 2018, 03:07 AM

I that wsm also used this shank size first, right? They also use a blade ejector in wsm.

T. O'Heir · October 8, 2018, 12:11 PM

Berdan primed brass is reloadable, if you can find new primers and want to spend the extra time fiddling with 'em. Plus there's no Large Rifle, etc. sizing with 'em. They go by a specific size in decimals. Berdan primed brass is not worth the effort required.
"...the max pressure is 68000 psi..." Moot. They're totally different methods of measuring pressure. There is no comparing or converting CUP to or from PSI either. SAAMI Max for the 6.5 is 46,000 CUP. CIP(European) says 51,000 PSI.
"...Never heard of a 30-30 in bolt..." Savage M340. Tack driver.

RC20 · October 8, 2018, 06:21 PM

Quote:

They still don't catalog any RUM cartridges. So, did they really correct the issue?

Had to look, they don't, good question, see some issues with people who had them.

WSM yes but RUM no.

October 7, 2018, 03:05 PM	#4
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Kind of a poor comparison of a 30-30 that is a weaker action type vs a bolt which is as solid as they get. As long as you start low and work up, doing ALL the checks for pressure, you should be fine. Europeans are hunting with modern rifles in most cases. Note it says Europeans are loading to 58k psi, not 65k that it can handle. Berdon can be re-loaded but its a royal pain so while not technically accurate, realistically it is. Vast majority even advanced reloaders won't unless its the only case you can get. Personal experience with the 7.5 Swiss (on a modern action) has it hitting pressure indicators before a 30-06 would though they are the same capacity. My take is the shorter and wider column burns more efficiently and pressure is higher grain per gain (I could be wrong) My chrono quit working so I can cross check identical power loads and see how they compare speed wise. As long as you are cautious in the approach I don't see an issue with testing. Its a very short article and clearly does not get into all the nuances. Nothing dangerous being advocated. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by RC20; October 7, 2018 at 03:12 PM.

October 7, 2018, 05:16 PM	#5
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	You could say the same thing regarding the 7x57 Mauser. Like the 6.5x55, American made ammo is kept to the 50KPSI range, or 45K C.U.P. if you prefer the old method. Properly handloaded it's a horse of a different color. It's no problem to do 2700 FPS and higher if I want from my Winchester M70 FWT. Same with the Ruger #1. They love those lose loads. However, if the rifle is an 1893 or 1895 Mauser one should use caution. The same would be for the 1896 Swedes even the later M38's. They're still just 1896 actions. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

October 8, 2018, 03:07 AM	#9
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	I that wsm also used this shank size first, right? They also use a blade ejector in wsm. Last edited by Nathan; October 8, 2018 at 08:39 PM.

October 8, 2018, 12:11 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Berdan primed brass is reloadable, if you can find new primers and want to spend the extra time fiddling with 'em. Plus there's no Large Rifle, etc. sizing with 'em. They go by a specific size in decimals. Berdan primed brass is not worth the effort required. "...the max pressure is 68000 psi..." Moot. They're totally different methods of measuring pressure. There is no comparing or converting CUP to or from PSI either. SAAMI Max for the 6.5 is 46,000 CUP. CIP(European) says 51,000 PSI. "...Never heard of a 30-30 in bolt..." Savage M340. Tack driver. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 7, 2018, 02:50 PM	#1
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	Thoughts about using old round in a modern rifle..... https://loaddata.com/Article/LabNote...ra-bullets/462 The author indicates that if you are loading 6.5x55 Swede in a modern bolt action, that the max pressure is 68000 psi instead of 46000 cup to 50000 cup most manuals show.... I can see this. Besides, I’m not loading anything above where I get serious pressure signs...

October 7, 2018, 02:57 PM	#2
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	The article has its faults. Berdan primed brass is reloadable, the author says it is not. I would not load a 6.5x55 Swede to 65,000 psi under any circumstances. It doesn't matter to me if it is a new modern rifle. If I have a new modern rifle in 30-30 Win and a bolt action, would I load it to 65,000 psi?? According to the author, I could. According to me, I won't.

October 7, 2018, 03:04 PM	#3
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	Berdan primers are not reloadable by me.....and I have quite a bit of equipment. Brian Pierce is pretty reputable....that is why I’m posting for public comment... Thanks for your opinion.

October 7, 2018, 10:09 PM	#6
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	RC: you missed it again. I said 30-30 in a modern bolt action. Also, Paul B is absolutely correct in his 7x57 comments. Still, I would bet he ain't near 65K with his loads. I would say we all agree that Savage makes modern rifles. A couple of years ago, there was a rash of catastrophic failures with their chambering in 300 RUM, which is a 65K cartridge. There was never any explanations that I heard that explained the failures. Savage no longer chambers rifles for that particular cartridge. I wonder why that is??

October 7, 2018, 11:38 PM	#8
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Well, the 300RUM ain't exactly a short case, being longer and fatter than a 300 Weatherby. They still don't catalog any RUM cartridges. So, did they really correct the issue?