Gun and Kids at home

[zach_]

I keep my guns locked up in a safe, or on my person during the day. At night I keep a nightstand Glock. I want a quick access mini, book sized safe. From reviews, there seems to be no good small solution. I made one fail at the retail shop. I was pushing buttons too fast according to the salesman. He recommended a combination cable lock to a fixed object. I had never heard that one before. Their bio lock device failed as well.

Anybody here recommend a specific make and model of quick access, single handgun size device? I am not saying price is no object, but I could rationalize that a reliable device would be worth as much a pistol.

[FAS1]

I want a quick access mini, book sized safe. From reviews, there seems to be no good small solution. I made one fail at the retail shop. I was pushing buttons too fast according to the salesman. He recommended a combination cable lock to a fixed object. I had never heard that one before. Their bio lock device failed as well.

Anybody here recommend a specific make and model of quick access, single handgun size device? I am not saying price is no object, but I could rationalize that a reliable device would be worth as much a pistol.

Take a look at the ones that use the mechanical push button lock (Simplex style) and find the one that best fits where and how you want to mount it. Most are heavier gauge steel than their electronic counterpart along with being just as quick. You get proven durability and reliability for many years if not a life time.

[adamBomb]

Take a look at the ones that use the mechanical push button lock (Simplex style) and find the one that best fits where and how you want to mount it. Most are heavier gauge steel than their electronic counterpart along with being just as quick. You get proven durability and reliability for many years if not a life time.

Agreed. Go with FAS1 safes. I prefer them because in addition to the simplex lock they come with a back up key. They are also a tad cheaper than the fortknox but either of those brands are top of the line for small safes.

My new set up at my house after going through all of the posts:

In the bedroom - FAS1 safe with my pistol in it. Magazine hidden elsewhere but not locked. It takes me around 10 seconds to get it ready if needed. Essentially the kids would need to know the safes combo, also find the magazine, and figure out how to work the gun and rack it. The safe is also about 7 ft off the ground in my closets top shelf so the kids would also need a ladder to get to it. The kids never play in there alone so even if they were on a mission they wouldnt have more than a few minutes to try and do all of this. the oldest is also 5 yrs old so they arent really old enough to get a ladder and try out lock combos anyway.

In my office - closet locked by key. Revolver locked in closet with trigger guard, unloaded. All of my ammo in the locked closet in an ammo box with a padlock.

As they get older I will probably change some of this for the time being this is pretty solid.

[skizzums]

i havent read all four pages, so i am not sure if this was discussed. post #3 states that a toddler is more likely to find a gun than an intruder breaking in. i have heard this said by many people, but is it true? i live outside of atlanta, and i see several violent break-in's on the news every single day, i don't hear of kids shooting themselves or others very often, maybe once ot twice a year. i think that statistic might be very dependent to where you live. my brother and i both have kids( i have a kid, almost 9 now and smart enough to know better) he was subject to a violent break-in, but neithr of our kids shot themselves.

i am not saying to scatter guns alll over the house, but i think keeping an unloaded gun can be a bad idea as well

[adamBomb]

i havent read all four pages, so i am not sure if this was discussed. post #3 states that a toddler is more likely to find a gun than an intruder breaking in. i have heard this said by many people, but is it true? i live outside of atlanta, and i see several violent break-in's on the news every single day, i don't hear of kids shooting themselves or others very often, maybe once ot twice a year. i think that statistic might be very dependent to where you live.

Definitely depends where you live. If you live in an area where there is break ins and shootings weekly vs a neighborhood where there isnt even a break in 1x a year then those stats would be drastically different. A lot of those toddler incidents involve people leaving their guns loaded and like in a dresser the kid has access to...A little common sense goes a long way here and that includes teaching the kid about guns, locking them up, keeping them on you, etc. It depends a lot on the kids too, their maturity, type of kids they are and such. Each household and kid is probably different. In my situation, the chance of a break in is much less than a one of my kids getting a gun. But I have friends that live in bad parts of the city where that would definitely not be true.

[mavracer]

It takes me around 10 seconds to get it ready if needed.

That's an awefully long time when every second counts.

[skizzums]

The numbers of child/guns accidents vary widely by who is reporting it and how, but all the left-of-center news organizations have been peddling 10,000 a year. 7,00 injured and 3,000 die, this doesn't say if this is from a child finding a gun or just kids in wrong place/wrong time or intentionally harmed by firearms. I won't argue, so let's just stay with 10,000 a year. In 2012 , FBI statistics say 1:36 residended are broken into. I don't know how many residences are in the u.s., but I assume it would have to be close to 100,000,000 for a population closing on 400mil. Staying on the very low end, that leaves a couple million homes getting broken into.

[mavracer]

What's the adversion to having a loaded gun in the safe?

[FITASC]

With your children as young as they are, I would leave the mag in the gun with the empty chamber to appease the wife in the storage device of your choosing. Even your 4 year old, IF he could get into the safe, won't be racking the slide on a semi. One less thing for Mr. Murphy to interfere with. You didn't mention whether your wife is a shooter (she sounds not likely). I would find a quiet place and a mild gun like a .22 and teach her about shooting and take the fear of guns away from her. Then as the kids get older, it can become a fun-filled and safe family activity. Besides, there may come a time when you aren't there and she needs to protect herself and the kids.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Even your 4 year old, IF he could get into the safe, won't be racking the slide on a semi.

Not true, kids that age can do it. It's been demonstrated in tests.

[kilimanjaro]

At 10,000 a year as the antis like to say, that's 200 children per state per year, or 4 kids a week. A complete fabrication.

[manta49]

At 10,000 a year as the antis like to say, that's 200 children per state per year, or 4 kids a week. A complete fabrication.

10,000 a year what. ?

[adamBomb]

You didn't mention whether your wife is a shooter (she sounds not likely). I would find a quiet place and a mild gun like a .22 and teach her about shooting and take the fear of guns away from her. Then as the kids get older, it can become a fun-filled and safe family activity. Besides, there may come a time when you aren't there and she needs to protect herself and the kids.

She is the opposite of a shooter haha. But yes that is a good idea. I was just looking at the .22 rifles this weekend. I will probably take my boy that just turned 5 to shoot a BB gun this winter when I am at my family's over xmas to see how he does.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

About accidental kid shootings - it's roughly 110 a year according to the recent research.

[BoogieMan]

This is such a great topic.
I own somewhere in the area of 70 firearms. Not one of them is in my home. The only loaded one I have on hand is in my office desk drawer. Alarm-Dog-can of wasp spray-then my 230lbs jumping off the top step is my line of defense.
My sons are both in college now. When they were younger I never had any hesitation about a loaded gun in the nightstand. After my daughter (now 10) was old enough to crawl around the practice stopped. Im not exactly sure why, but I dont feel comfortable with her around a loaded gun. She does shoot and at this age we are working safety mainly. The lack of the loaded gun may be more of lack of trust in myself at this point. If im woken from a sound sleep will I remember the rules of engagement. IMO the very worst thing that could ever happen would be to fire on a loved one.
Im curious if others may have the same fear. I think I will be investing in a biometric safe or similar for under the bed in the near future.

[manta49]

About accidental kid shootings - it's roughly 110 a year according to the recent research

Is it a complete fabrication as the earlier post stated.

At 10,000 a year as the antis like to say, that's 200 children per state per year, or 4 kids a week. A complete fabrication.

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by manta49

Is it a complete fabrication as the earlier post stated.

You think they made them all up? You obviously have the internet, do a little research if you don't believe it. Or do you believe that these people are intentionally murdering their kids?

The report lists every one of them, shouldn't be hard to verify if you don't believe it. 30 seconds on Google found me the original write-ups on the first three.

For the study, researchers analyzed publicly reported unintentional child gun deaths involving a child aged 14 and younger from Dec. 15, 2012, to Dec. 14, 2013.

“Whenever possible we identified how the shooter got the gun; where the fatal gunshot occurred; who pulled the trigger; whether the gun was legally owned; and whether criminal charges were brought after the deaths,” the authors of the report write.

...

Harrison, Tennessee, December 20, 2012 Less than a week before Christmas, two-year-old Brennan Nowell was visiting the home of his grandfather, Stan Nowell, a pastor and missionary who established an organization called Forgotten Child Ministries to help street children in Honduras. Stan Nowell owned a .40 caliber pistol, which he had left unattended on a chair. Brennan discovered the gun and accidentally shot himself; he died in the hospital later that night.

Conway, South Carolina, December 25, 2012 After burglars attempted to break into his family’s house while the family was home, Rondell Smith purchased a .38-caliber handgun to defend his family. Two weeks later, he set the gun down on the family’s living room table and turned to make a phone call. Just hours after enjoying a Christmas dinner of chicken and macaroni and cheese, Smith’s two-year-old son, Sincere, picked the loaded gun up off the table. Within seconds, Sincere had pulled the trigger, firing a single shot that tore through his chest. He died on the way to the hospital.

Breckenridge, Missouri, January 12, 2013 On a Friday evening, Kathy Curtis and her husband left home to run errands, leaving their 12-year-old son Steven at home with a friend and his 13- and 16-year-old siblings. Steven’s mother described him as an avid outdoorsman who loved to hunt, and who had a hunter’s safety certification. Nevertheless, while the other children were in a bedroom watching a movie, Steven got into a locked gun safe in the family’s living room and removed a handgun. Investigators later concluded that Steven mishandled the gun in the hallway, accidentally shooting himself.

WRCB TV account of Brennan Nowell shooting:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/20405078...-from-shooting

Myrtle Beach newspaper account of Sincere Smith shooting.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/new...e16638353.html

Fox News report of Steven Curtis shooting;

http://fox4kc.com/2013/01/14/remembe...-breckenridge/

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by adamBomb

In the bedroom - FAS1 safe with my pistol in it. Magazine hidden elsewhere but not locked. It takes me around 10 seconds to get it ready if needed.

Having done a little Force-on-Force and used a shot timer, let me just say that 10 seconds feels like an eternity if someone is trying to force entry into your home or is actively assaulting/shooting at you. I've done Force-on-Force scenarios where the whole thing was over in half that time - and that included verbal warnings, etc.

There is the simplest solution in the world to this problem. It is the cheapest. It is the fastest to access AND it protects your children from unsupervised access to the gun best - carry the gun on your person in a proper holster.

[adamBomb]

IMO the very worst thing that could ever happen would be to fire on a loved one.
Im curious if others may have the same fear.

Absolutely. I had heard stories of it when I was a kid. Just practice your routine and know what you would do. Dont fire through a door or wall either.

[FAS1]

About accidental kid shootings - it's roughly 110 a year according to the recent research.

From what I can find this seems to be pretty close.

Results
"We estimate that there were 110 unintentional firearm deaths to children 0–14 annually in the U.S. during this 8 year time period, 80 % higher than reported by the Vital Statistics. The victims were predominantly male (81 %). Approximately two thirds of the shootings were other-inflicted, and in 97 % of those cases the shooter was a male. The typical shooter in other-inflicted shootings is a brother or friend. Indeed, children aged 11–14 are often shot in the home of friends. The large majority of children are shot by other children or by themselves. It is rare for a child accidentally to be shot by or accidentally to shoot an adult who is not a family member."

http://www.injepijournal.com/content/2/1/26

[doofus47]

Bartholomew Roberts

Having done a little Force-on-Force and used a shot timer, let me just say that 10 seconds feels like an eternity

Agreed, but if someone breaks into your house, unless they
A) are in your home explicitly to do you harm, not rob, not do anything profit-related
B) know the layout of your house AND and know where you are in your home
C) are not attempting to be stealthy

you probably have 10 seconds. You don't have enough time to download and review home defense videos from youtube, but you have 10 seconds to recover your firearm.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Google has no shortage of surveillance camera video of actual home invasions - and they have the little playback timer that shows you exactly how much ground the invaders covered in ten seconds.

One thing a lot of those videos have in common was that the invaders weren't detected until they attempted force entry - or in some cases, after they had already entered.

We discuss the concept of a layered defense that buys you the time you need to respond quite a bit and these videos really emphasize why that is important. A little barking poop machine may not seem like much of a deterrent but it can add a lot of time to your observation and orientation cycles. If I can walk right up to your back door undetected, 10 seconds is going to be a very long time.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by doofus47:

....someone breaks into your house, unless they
A) are in your home explicitly to do you harm, not rob, not do anything profit-related
B) know the layout of your house AND and know where you are in your home
C) are not attempting to be stealthy...

you probably have 10 seconds.... to recover your firearm.

You have to add to that three more conditions: "unless they":

• are closer to your firearm than you are
• are between your firearm and you
• your path to you firearm would take you into their lines of fire

Regarding "are in your home explicitly to do you harm, not rob, not do anything profit-related", how would you know that? Why would you believe that whatever their original motive for entering might have been, they would not become very dangerous if encountered?

And I, for one, will not place a bet of that kind on "probably".

[FAS1]

You have to add to that three more conditions: "unless they":
are closer to your firearm than you are
are between your firearm and you
your path to you firearm would take you into their lines of fire

Regarding "are in your home explicitly to do you harm, not rob, not do anything profit-related", how would you know that? Why would you believe that whatever their original motive for entering might have been, they would not become very dangerous if encountered?

And I, for one, will not place a bet of that kind on "probably".

I agree, and for me I want access to my gun as fast as possible and it only takes me 3 or 4 seconds to have my gun in my hand and ready. The OP has made a determination based on what he wants to accomplish in his situation that 10 seconds is acceptable for him.

It sounds like maybe the OP or his wife aren't convinced that a loaded handgun in the home is worth the risk when it comes to their kids, even if it is in a locked container. Understandable as we want to do everything we deem necessary to protect them and those decisions are up to us all individually. I also carry when at home even if it just a .380 in my pocket and only depend on accessing my handgun safe when I go to bed.

[OldMarksman]

There are few more frightening sounds than having a door burst open when you are in another room and you are not carrying.

Almost had that happen. I had failed to look the door and close it surely. It was a strong gust of wind.

But I was carrying.

I do not like having a firearm unsecured when there are kids in the house, and I do not like having them where I cannot access them instantly.