ar15 - Page 2

Wyosmith · December 31, 2018, 01:09 PM

No, if I saw one that would only hold 3.5" at 100 yards and didn't run I would not call that good either.
But I have not seen that. Not so far at least.
The $450 to $500 guns I have seen in my shop and range in the last 3-4 months all shot well with good ammo, all had metal lowers, not plastic and all ran fine.

So maybe I am talking out of turn here If so, I apologize.

Nathan · December 31, 2018, 01:50 PM

Good to hear....what are your thoughts on this rifle LINK

TruthTellers · December 31, 2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...polymer-ar-15/

Do you have different results?

Barrel has a lot to do with it and a low budget trigger never helps with accurate shooting. The Ruger and S&W AR's are ~$500 rifles, both have good barrels, good assemblers, but the triggers are a bit on the "Meh" side. The thing with triggers is a better one can be got for $40, a good one for $100, and a top line one for $200 and all of them take about 5 mins for anyone to install.

BTW, that reviewer is using a red dot, not a scope. Not a fair comparison to judge a rifle's accuracy when using a red dot at 100 yards, especially from TruthAboutGuns. I read a review from them years ago about a certain budget pistol and the reviewer complained about it shooting 12 inches low at 3 yards. I read another review from a different reviewer on TTAG who got that same pistol from the first reviewer and found that the rear sight was cranked all the way down. No wonder why the gun shot so low!

pblanc · December 31, 2018, 03:00 PM

I would never buy an polymer AR lower receiver, not when there are so many good aluminum receivers currently available at very reasonable expense. That is the serialized part and the purchase requires filling out an ATF 4473 form and additional cost for the transfer, unless one already happens to be a FFL holder, which most of us are not.

Also, in the event that ARs are outlawed but current owners are grandfathered, which I hope never happens, I want my AR lowers to last as long as humanly possible.

Comparing that Omni Hybrid Polymer AR to something like a Ruger AR556 or a Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport II is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Yugo, IMO. Assuming the aluminum upper and lower receiver is milled to spec, I really have not seen much functional difference between those on ARs in the 500-600 dollar range and those that cost hundreds more. I don't think that spending more on an AR is a complete waste of money. It can get you a more durable chrome-lined barrel and chamber, a somewhat better bolt carrier group, nicer trigger, nicer furniture, a free-floated hand guard, etc. And I am certainly not trying to talk anyone out of spending $2000 or more on an AR.

My first AR was a Ruger AR556. I have also shot a bunch of M&P Sport IIs. Both are very solid and reliable carbines. I have yet to have a malfunction with my AR556 even shooting steel case ammunition. I agree that the triggers on both, very basic single-stage mil-spec designs, are pretty mediocre, though functional, the Smith trigger being a little better than the Ruger IME. The furniture on both is very basic but again, quite functional.

It so happens that I have swapped out the furniture on my Ruger AR556 for nicer Magpul stuff, changed the stock rear flip-up sight, and installed a much nicer two-stage trigger. It is likely that I would have saved a bit of money had I purchased a carbine with nicer furniture and trigger to begin with. But at the time, I did not know enough to know what I wanted, and I think that is true for many who are new to the AR platform. And changes of this type can be made incrementally.

If I had it to do over again, I would quite likely go with the Aero Precision rifle linked above with the 16" barrel to get a mid-length gas system, a free-float hand guard, and my choice of sights and butt stock.

bp22 · December 31, 2018, 07:06 PM

so far my interest are in no order ruger 556, m&p sport 2, diamondback db15, and entry Anderson.

2ndtimer · January 1, 2019, 04:17 AM

You should also take a look at Palmetto State Armory. This one looks like a real deal: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446841.html
Mid-length gas system, magpul furniture, 1 in 7" twist rate, comes with flip up rear sight and P-Mag 30 round magazine. I like the the flat dark earth furniture. I installed it on my S&W original Sport. A nice upgrade over the original stuff. For $499.99 with free shipping, it is a solid deal on a very nice AR.
I bought one of their complete uppers chambered in .223 Wylde a few months ago and have been very pleased with it. And bought a PA-10 complete upper and PA-10 Complete lower a few weeks ago, slapped them together and have a decent, reliable AR in .308 Win. for less than $550.00 delivered. I just added a scope.
PSA offers decent quality stuff at great prices. Sometimes they are a little slow to ship, but that is probably due to the volume of orders they process.

bp22 · January 1, 2019, 10:27 AM

I do like that in the link above

El_Cabra · January 2, 2019, 12:04 PM

Maybe its because I live in NC now but I always tend to go with Del-Ton rifles. Their prices are usually really appealing. They have a great warranty, and have been in business since 2000 or 2001(don't quote me).
I have quite a few of them now, and have yet to have an issue with any of them. That is including the one that I have royally abused, and mistreated.

Fishbed77 · January 2, 2019, 03:13 PM

Quote:

If there was ever a gun snob...…..

I see nothing snobbish in Nathan's post #14.

The fact is that a quality AR costs a certain amount of money to manufacture and bring to market. If an AR costs considerably less, corners are obviously being cut somewhere in regards to material or workmanship. There is no way around this.

I own both budget and higher-quality ARs. There is no denying that Colt and BCM ARs are better than the ~$500 consumer-grade rifles. Both in terms of materials used (though the Colts don't tend to be "pretty") and the level of QA/QC going into the product. Companies like Colt and BCM are very transparent about the specifications of the parts going into their rifles. The same can't always be said about the budget guns.

Does that mean you won't be satisfied by a ~$500 consumer-grade rifle? Absolutely not. It may fulfill every need you have for an AR. But you can't expect it to be as bombproof as one of the higher-grade rifles.

If you are looking for a high-value AR (i.e. not necessarily "cheap," but not over-priced option), I second the advice given by another earlier in this thread - buy a BCM upper and attach it to the less-expensive lower of your choice (I've had good luck with PSA lowers with PSA or BCM lower parts kits).

HiBC · January 2, 2019, 04:11 PM

I don't recall the details,but there just aren't too many outfits making upper and lower castings.I don't know about Asian,but Aero is USA and a quality product.Check out the website.I believe Dillon/Aero makes the Minigun.

I think maybe Aero supplies receivers to a large percentage of favorite brands.

I've built on Aero receivers.IMO,they are just fine.The Aero receivers I bought were quite reasonable,under $100 ($65 to $85,IIRC)

I have not fired the rifles myself,but folks I know bought the stripped down basic Aeros through Brownells .They were highly impressed with the accuracy.

The OP ,as he introduced himself,does not seem like a "builder".

My suggestions for a stripped Aero are probably off in that respect.It might be the OP is best served by a rifle ready to go out of the box.A build does not take a genius,but it does take some proper tools and skills we are not born with.Not all home hack AR's are things of wonder and beauty.

What suits my perspective best,of those recommended,is the Ruger free floated flat top mentioned above,BUT !! That assumes I want to scope it,and prairie dog accuracy is a requirement.

What I notice is that many of us,myself included,to a degree ignore what the OP said about what he wants,and instead spend the OP's money buying what we want.

OP,I'd stay away from the bargain basement,,,but if you can get a Ruger,S+W,Aero,or other recognizable US brand name,you'll be fine.

It will run.If you get a really bad trigger,those can be upgraded easily for about $100 or even less...to match grade.

OP,you have to consider if a scope and fine accuracy will be a future need.

If so,flat top and free float barrel are a good idea.

GarandTd · January 10, 2019, 06:52 PM

I my case, I think a basic, super budget AR is the ideal starting point. Let's forget for a minute that I REALLY like my "budget" firearms. By design, ARs are basically all the same. Am I, the novice AR shopper/shooter, even going to be able to tell the difference between the basic inexpensive components and the premium ones. I don't think I will, but everyone is different. I plan to partially build mine to save on cost and I think the assembly process will be fun. When it's done it'll probably shoot better than I expected and I may be content. If not, I'll be able to build(pun intended) on what I've learned. I'll be able to swap out parts to see how I can make the rifle suit me better or shoot better. This AR is going to compliment my battle rifle collection. It will sling lead proudly alongside my Gew98 and M1 Garand and add a touch of modern to my to my old war horses. Those old war horses are probably crappy old mil-spec just like my AR is gonna be.

Edit to add, I think the S&W or the Ruger would be just fine if you want a complete basic AR from a well known company that will back their product. I'm choosing to build for experience and money saving.

Fishbed77 · January 11, 2019, 11:15 AM

Quote:

By design, ARs are basically all the same.

By design, perhaps.

By practice, no.

There are certain parts specifications that are unequivocally superior to others, and some manufacturers that practice better quality assurance and quality control than others.

GarandTd · January 11, 2019, 12:29 PM

Understood about specs, materials, and QC.

I know many don't care for the car comparison, but I think it's an accurate one. I could spend the extra $ to buy a Lexus and know that the materials and QC is top notch, but I could spend 1/2 as much to buy a Toyota and know that I'm still getting a decent car.

There are certain materials that I'm not interested in as far as lower receivers go. I could have gotten a poly "hybrid" lower for 40% less $, but I wanted the forged aluminum. My goal is mil-spec. I want nother more than a modern battle rifle. Everyone has different wants and needs and budgets, but I think a pretty decent rifle can be made these days for a pretty low price tag.

pete2 · January 11, 2019, 12:45 PM

I am a shooter, not a fan boy by any means. I have 2 ARs, neither is a so called premium rifle. One is a 20" Rock River, Wilde chamber, 2 stage trigger, cost about 1100.00 inc. the rear handle/sight. The other is a Ruger lower and a 16" Rock River upper, 5.56. The Ruger lower has a 2 stage trigger, as good as the Rock River so far. Both are totally reliable so far, both are accurate. I can't tell any difference in quality between the 2. I doubt that I could tell the difference between these and a 2500.00 AR. I have less than 600.00 in the 16" rifle.

January 1, 2019, 04:17 AM	#31
2ndtimer Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 293	You should also take a look at Palmetto State Armory. This one looks like a real deal: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446841.html Mid-length gas system, magpul furniture, 1 in 7" twist rate, comes with flip up rear sight and P-Mag 30 round magazine. I like the the flat dark earth furniture. I installed it on my S&W original Sport. A nice upgrade over the original stuff. For $499.99 with free shipping, it is a solid deal on a very nice AR. I bought one of their complete uppers chambered in .223 Wylde a few months ago and have been very pleased with it. And bought a PA-10 complete upper and PA-10 Complete lower a few weeks ago, slapped them together and have a decent, reliable AR in .308 Win. for less than $550.00 delivered. I just added a scope. PSA offers decent quality stuff at great prices. Sometimes they are a little slow to ship, but that is probably due to the volume of orders they process. __________________ NRA Endowment Member

January 10, 2019, 06:52 PM	#36
GarandTd Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2016 Location: Rural PA Posts: 1,639	I my case, I think a basic, super budget AR is the ideal starting point. Let's forget for a minute that I REALLY like my "budget" firearms. By design, ARs are basically all the same. Am I, the novice AR shopper/shooter, even going to be able to tell the difference between the basic inexpensive components and the premium ones. I don't think I will, but everyone is different. I plan to partially build mine to save on cost and I think the assembly process will be fun. When it's done it'll probably shoot better than I expected and I may be content. If not, I'll be able to build(pun intended) on what I've learned. I'll be able to swap out parts to see how I can make the rifle suit me better or shoot better. This AR is going to compliment my battle rifle collection. It will sling lead proudly alongside my Gew98 and M1 Garand and add a touch of modern to my to my old war horses. Those old war horses are probably crappy old mil-spec just like my AR is gonna be. Edit to add, I think the S&W or the Ruger would be just fine if you want a complete basic AR from a well known company that will back their product. I'm choosing to build for experience and money saving. __________________ 22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp

January 11, 2019, 12:29 PM	#38
GarandTd Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2016 Location: Rural PA Posts: 1,639	Understood about specs, materials, and QC. I know many don't care for the car comparison, but I think it's an accurate one. I could spend the extra $ to buy a Lexus and know that the materials and QC is top notch, but I could spend 1/2 as much to buy a Toyota and know that I'm still getting a decent car. There are certain materials that I'm not interested in as far as lower receivers go. I could have gotten a poly "hybrid" lower for 40% less $, but I wanted the forged aluminum. My goal is mil-spec. I want nother more than a modern battle rifle. Everyone has different wants and needs and budgets, but I think a pretty decent rifle can be made these days for a pretty low price tag. __________________ 22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp

December 31, 2018, 01:09 PM	#26
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	No, if I saw one that would only hold 3.5" at 100 yards and didn't run I would not call that good either. But I have not seen that. Not so far at least. The $450 to $500 guns I have seen in my shop and range in the last 3-4 months all shot well with good ammo, all had metal lowers, not plastic and all ran fine. So maybe I am talking out of turn here If so, I apologize.

December 31, 2018, 01:50 PM	#27
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,328	Good to hear....what are your thoughts on this rifle LINK

December 31, 2018, 03:00 PM	#29
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	I would never buy an polymer AR lower receiver, not when there are so many good aluminum receivers currently available at very reasonable expense. That is the serialized part and the purchase requires filling out an ATF 4473 form and additional cost for the transfer, unless one already happens to be a FFL holder, which most of us are not. Also, in the event that ARs are outlawed but current owners are grandfathered, which I hope never happens, I want my AR lowers to last as long as humanly possible. Comparing that Omni Hybrid Polymer AR to something like a Ruger AR556 or a Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport II is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Yugo, IMO. Assuming the aluminum upper and lower receiver is milled to spec, I really have not seen much functional difference between those on ARs in the 500-600 dollar range and those that cost hundreds more. I don't think that spending more on an AR is a complete waste of money. It can get you a more durable chrome-lined barrel and chamber, a somewhat better bolt carrier group, nicer trigger, nicer furniture, a free-floated hand guard, etc. And I am certainly not trying to talk anyone out of spending $2000 or more on an AR. My first AR was a Ruger AR556. I have also shot a bunch of M&P Sport IIs. Both are very solid and reliable carbines. I have yet to have a malfunction with my AR556 even shooting steel case ammunition. I agree that the triggers on both, very basic single-stage mil-spec designs, are pretty mediocre, though functional, the Smith trigger being a little better than the Ruger IME. The furniture on both is very basic but again, quite functional. It so happens that I have swapped out the furniture on my Ruger AR556 for nicer Magpul stuff, changed the stock rear flip-up sight, and installed a much nicer two-stage trigger. It is likely that I would have saved a bit of money had I purchased a carbine with nicer furniture and trigger to begin with. But at the time, I did not know enough to know what I wanted, and I think that is true for many who are new to the AR platform. And changes of this type can be made incrementally. If I had it to do over again, I would quite likely go with the Aero Precision rifle linked above with the 16" barrel to get a mid-length gas system, a free-float hand guard, and my choice of sights and butt stock.

December 31, 2018, 07:06 PM	#30
bp22 Member Join Date: February 12, 2018 Posts: 36	so far my interest are in no order ruger 556, m&p sport 2, diamondback db15, and entry Anderson.

January 1, 2019, 10:27 AM	#32
bp22 Member Join Date: February 12, 2018 Posts: 36	I do like that in the link above

January 2, 2019, 12:04 PM	#33
El_Cabra Junior Member Join Date: November 9, 2018 Posts: 7	Maybe its because I live in NC now but I always tend to go with Del-Ton rifles. Their prices are usually really appealing. They have a great warranty, and have been in business since 2000 or 2001(don't quote me). I have quite a few of them now, and have yet to have an issue with any of them. That is including the one that I have royally abused, and mistreated.

January 2, 2019, 04:11 PM	#35
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I don't recall the details,but there just aren't too many outfits making upper and lower castings.I don't know about Asian,but Aero is USA and a quality product.Check out the website.I believe Dillon/Aero makes the Minigun. I think maybe Aero supplies receivers to a large percentage of favorite brands. I've built on Aero receivers.IMO,they are just fine.The Aero receivers I bought were quite reasonable,under $100 ($65 to $85,IIRC) I have not fired the rifles myself,but folks I know bought the stripped down basic Aeros through Brownells .They were highly impressed with the accuracy. The OP ,as he introduced himself,does not seem like a "builder". My suggestions for a stripped Aero are probably off in that respect.It might be the OP is best served by a rifle ready to go out of the box.A build does not take a genius,but it does take some proper tools and skills we are not born with.Not all home hack AR's are things of wonder and beauty. What suits my perspective best,of those recommended,is the Ruger free floated flat top mentioned above,BUT !! That assumes I want to scope it,and prairie dog accuracy is a requirement. What I notice is that many of us,myself included,to a degree ignore what the OP said about what he wants,and instead spend the OP's money buying what we want. OP,I'd stay away from the bargain basement,,,but if you can get a Ruger,S+W,Aero,or other recognizable US brand name,you'll be fine. It will run.If you get a really bad trigger,those can be upgraded easily for about $100 or even less...to match grade. OP,you have to consider if a scope and fine accuracy will be a future need. If so,flat top and free float barrel are a good idea.

January 11, 2019, 12:45 PM	#39
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I am a shooter, not a fan boy by any means. I have 2 ARs, neither is a so called premium rifle. One is a 20" Rock River, Wilde chamber, 2 stage trigger, cost about 1100.00 inc. the rear handle/sight. The other is a Ruger lower and a 16" Rock River upper, 5.56. The Ruger lower has a 2 stage trigger, as good as the Rock River so far. Both are totally reliable so far, both are accurate. I can't tell any difference in quality between the 2. I doubt that I could tell the difference between these and a 2500.00 AR. I have less than 600.00 in the 16" rifle.