What 7.62x25 Tokarev to get?

TruthTellers · August 2, 2019, 03:42 AM

I've liked the 7.62x25 cartridge for years, it's always intrigued me given its high velocity and age. Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common back in the early 20th Century like they are now, so that's a major reason I'm interested, not too mention I like Russian military guns.

I figure with prices on guns being as low as they'll ever get, it's time to start really pondering things and there are a couple of different pistols made in the caliber, but I'm not quite sure which pistol to get.

My major criteria are that magazines be available cuz I don't want to be stuck with just one mag for a semi auto pistol. Ammo isn't a big concern, I figure I'll reload for it.

ligonierbill · August 2, 2019, 05:42 AM

You can usually get magazines from Triple K, and I have had good luck with their performance. I shoot a CZ-52, and mags (and parts) are available. If you're loading your own, think H110. I ended up backing off from Hornady's published max and still run 1,450 with XTP 90s.

Hal · August 2, 2019, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common back in the early 20th Century like they are now

'scuse me? Might want to recheck that.

Ricklin · August 2, 2019, 08:26 AM

I very much enjoy my CZ-52. As mentioned, parts and mage are available. The mags are not cheap.

I've seen some very good looking pistols, there re aftermarket grips that can dress it up if you so desire.

Jim Watson · August 2, 2019, 09:37 AM

The current crop seems to be Romanian Tokarevs from AIM and others.
8 round magazines are available here and there, even eBay.
Caution: The Yugoslavian Tokarev is a long butt 9 shot, different clip.

jonnyc · August 2, 2019, 10:00 AM

No problem finding a variety of 7.62x25 handguns and magazines. Surplus ammo (usually corrosive) and new production is usually readily available.

jmstr · August 2, 2019, 11:11 AM

If you can only afford one, get a Romanian- they are the cheapest, and that leaves money left over for ammo/mags.

From what you said, I'd avoid the Yugo models, as they use a more 'unique' magazine, that is a bit more challenging to find.

CZ vs Tokarev = flame suits. There are a lot of debates regarding which design is superior. The CZ is more technologically advanced, but the rollers require a bit more material be removed from the chamber area, and this 'could' contribute to some problem down the road.

The Tokarev design is generally regarded as very strong.

The CZ was DESIGNED to have a thumb safety, but- if you have one with broker internal pieces, 'decocking' it can fire it. [I would NEVER decock a single-action semi-auto onto a live round anyway- as I would never carry hammer down on live round. less safe and no point.]

The Tokarev design did NOT allow for a safety- but they were added after the fact. The Romanian and Polish TT33 copies had safeties added to stop the trigger from moving. The Yugo had a safety that stopped the hammer or sear from moving [superior design]. However, the Yugo requires a longer magazine for the longer magazine well.

The Polish ones were better finished than the Romanian ones- in 2008. The current Romanian ones are about equal [in my opinion] to the Polish ones.

Now, if you are only going to buy one and money is NOT critical- look for the original- a Russian TT33.

I recommend a TT33 and a CZ52.

IF only one- I'd get the TT33 design and save some money.

Just my thoughts.

T. O'Heir · August 2, 2019, 11:55 AM

"...Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common..." Yeah, they were. They're far less common now. The C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser pistol was 7.63 x 25(AKA .30 Mauser and the basis for the Russian cartridge.) and select fire. Plus a bunch of assorted SMG's. The Luger pistol came in 7.65 x 21 Parabellum(aka .30 Parabellum). Before all of 'em was the 7.65×25mm Borchardt that the rest are based on and used in his Borchardt C-93 pistol, circa 1893.
Anyway, if you want a 7.62 x 25 buy a Tokarev. Cost you a whole bunch less. Gunbroker prices vary a great deal. As do prices according to where it was made. CZ prices vary a lot too, but start at roughly $400 plus. Just remember that you're buying a pistol not the cartridge.
"...CZ vs Tokarev..." Don't think there really is a VS. Except to milsurp pistol collectors who will likely have both anyway.

Cheapshooter · August 2, 2019, 12:57 PM

I have a Polish, and a Romanian TT-33, Yugo M57, and CZ52. Magazines are available for any in varying degrees. The M57 being the least common it seems.
All are fun to shoot, reasonably accurate,and interesting in their design. Of the TT-33 based versions the M57 has a much better safety, if that is important to you. It also has a magazine capacity increased by 1. For a range blaster, neither are all that important. The add on safety (GCA 1968) works fine for range use on the TT-33 pistols, and one more round in the M57 isn't a big deal.
But of the four 7.62X25 pistols I have the CZ 52 is certainly the most interesting with it's roller lock operating system similar to the German MG-42 machine gun.

lee n. field · August 2, 2019, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I've liked the 7.62x25 cartridge for years, it's always intrigued me given its high velocity and age. Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common back in the early 20th Century like they are now, so that's a major reason I'm interested, not too mention I like Russian military guns.

I figure with prices on guns being as low as they'll ever get, it's time to start really pondering things and there are a couple of different pistols made in the caliber, but I'm not quite sure which pistol to get.

My major criteria are that magazines be available cuz I don't want to be stuck with just one mag for a semi auto pistol. Ammo isn't a big concern, I figure I'll reload for it.

For practical shooting I'd get a Tokarev.

I know folks think the CZ-52 is cool. "Meh." Chamber isn't the strongest, stock rollers aren't the best metal, firing pin tip brittle and easily broken, and decocker known to fail leading to accidental discharges. And it looks clumsy.

(Yes, better firing pins and rollers are available, I know.)

amd6547 · August 2, 2019, 04:02 PM

I had wanted a CZ52 since I was a kid, and saw it in WHB Smith's books.
When I finally got one, I didn't care for it very much.
The Tokarev, however, is an excellent pistol. I even carry it, from time to time...it is so thin, and the grip is short...not many 5" barrel service pistols that are as easy to IWB.
And with my Romanian Tok, if I can see something, I can hit it...out to 100yds.

TruthTellers · August 2, 2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

'scuse me? Might want to recheck that.

The 7.63 Mauser and 7.65 Borchardt came before it, but I've no interest in those calibers and guns.

Not saying 7.62x25 came before them, just that bottleneck pistol calibers were not as popular as straight wall.

TruthTellers · August 2, 2019, 06:34 PM

Thanks for the replies, no interest in the CZ because it doesn't sound like it's a better gun than a Tokarev or Tokarev clone.

The Yugo I wouldn't have an issue with so long as mags are available and not crazy expensive.

I don't know what the prices for original Russian Tokarevs are, I can assume given the war history they're north of a grand... I can't justify that price when my goal is just to own and shoot a 7.62x25 pistol. Having said that tho, I would like it to be close to the Tokarev design.

I can't say I'm going to shoot it much either. Maybe 100 or 200 rds a year.

It sounds like the Romanian or Polish TT-33's are the way to go.

Nodak1858 · August 3, 2019, 12:35 AM

I have a number of Tokarevs, and M57s, love them all. AIM has Romanian pistols, good price on them, last few i got were these. All were in great shape. As for mags suplus are good, but JG Sales has Taiwan made ones that are good to go, for under $10. I use these over my surplus mags now, good construction and you don't have to deal with dented greased up surplus mags. If you buy ammo, go with S&B fmj, that stuff shoots great and as more FPS than most surplus and new production ammo. And the brass is good for reloading. I use it as my carry ammo as well.

jonnyc · August 3, 2019, 11:05 PM

If you're only going to get one, and you can't get a bring-back Chinese or Soviet, I'd go for the Yugo M57. That extra round makes the grip a pleasure to shoot.

44caliberkid · August 4, 2019, 06:06 AM

I have CZ52-52, a Romanian, and a new production Zastava from Serbia. I love my CZ-52. I put nice aftermarket wood grips on it and the American made firing pin and internal parts that the guy on Makarov dot com sells, which gives it a real nice trigger. Reliable and accurate. The Romanian Tok is OK, but had the junkiest ad on safety that is required by import regs, which I ended up removing, so now I have a 3/8" hole through the frame. It also has a really heavy trigger. The new Serbian made Zastava's are nice, but make sure you can return it. The first one I had would fire when you let the slide go forward to load the first round and the hammer would follow the slide forward and not stay cocked on subsequent rounds. It was from a well known surplus dealer at our gunshows, and he was happy to take it back and provide me a different one. The new one worked fine and is accurate but magazine availability is nill or really expensive. The Cz is my fav, but I'd like to try an old Norinco Tok sometime.

Hal · August 5, 2019, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Not saying 7.62x25 came before them, just that bottleneck pistol calibers were not as popular as straight wall.

Yeah - T. O'Heir picked up on it too.
I still say you need to recheck that.

**Mike Irwin** · August 6, 2019, 09:57 PM

Bottleneck pistol cartridges were a LOT more common in the late 19th and early 20th centuries than they are today.

Clement, Mars, Mauser, Luger, Bergman, Nambu, Borchardt offered handguns for a variety of bottleneck cartridges, many of which were chambered by other gun makers.

Even the .50 Remington single shot pistol round was a bottleneck design.

There was some fascination with bottleneck pistol rounds in America after World War II with rounds of like the 22 jet and the .256 magnum.

And let's not forget the combination rifle/pistol rounds from the black powder era like the 4440 and the 3840.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

TruthTellers · August 10, 2019, 02:40 PM

I've decided I'm gonna go with the Yugo M57. Mags are available and I would think unlike the 8 round mags for the TTC, the quality with the Yugo mags will be better given they were made to be used in one model of pistol.

willr · August 10, 2019, 03:27 PM

7.62x25 Tokarev and .30 Mauser are very similar but NOT exactly the same. The Mauser was the model used to create the Tokarev.

jonnyc · August 10, 2019, 07:56 PM

"7.62x25 Tokarev and .30 Mauser are very similar but NOT exactly the same. The Mauser was the model used to create the Tokarev.'

Eh.........sorta correct, but it depends on the country and individual manufacturers. They really are the same round.

artoo · August 11, 2019, 05:09 AM

Just for your information Zastava m57 magazines can be hard to find and not. It depends on where you look.

https://zastavaarmsusa.com/

https://www.facebook.com/ZastavaArmsUSA/ They claim to have shipped firearms to some distributors, but there is no time given for Zastava USA site dates given. Just after July of this year is what they said.

artoo · August 11, 2019, 05:10 AM

I guess I should have said that I have two M57s. One old and a newer one. Good guns, those.

TruthTellers · August 11, 2019, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artoo

Just for your information Zastava m57 magazines can be hard to find and not. It depends on where you look.

https://zastavaarmsusa.com/

https://www.facebook.com/ZastavaArmsUSA/ They claim to have shipped firearms to some distributors, but there is no time given for Zastava USA site dates given. Just after July of this year is what they said.

I checked on gunbroker, they're available. Not cheap at $24 a mag, but that's better than them not being available or costing $40 like some mags do.

wild cat mccane · August 12, 2019, 08:44 AM

Round is as expensive as 357mag, is less than 200fps away from 1300fps 9mm...

But what bugs me, the M57 (which is what you should get because the captured recoil spring and different barrel link) is good luck finding 9rnd M57 mags.

But what REALLY bothers me, it's $200--which is nothing. But still a total rip.

I too wanted one. The lack of mags and the occassional self destructing from a company I can't sue for ruining my fingers (lively hood) keeps me to the 357 when I want a thumper for now.

August 2, 2019, 03:42 AM	#1
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	What 7.62x25 Tokarev to get? I've liked the 7.62x25 cartridge for years, it's always intrigued me given its high velocity and age. Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common back in the early 20th Century like they are now, so that's a major reason I'm interested, not too mention I like Russian military guns. I figure with prices on guns being as low as they'll ever get, it's time to start really pondering things and there are a couple of different pistols made in the caliber, but I'm not quite sure which pistol to get. My major criteria are that magazines be available cuz I don't want to be stuck with just one mag for a semi auto pistol. Ammo isn't a big concern, I figure I'll reload for it. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

August 2, 2019, 08:26 AM	#4
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	CZ I very much enjoy my CZ-52. As mentioned, parts and mage are available. The mags are not cheap. I've seen some very good looking pistols, there re aftermarket grips that can dress it up if you so desire. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

August 2, 2019, 10:00 AM	#6
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	No problem finding a variety of 7.62x25 handguns and magazines. Surplus ammo (usually corrosive) and new production is usually readily available. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

August 2, 2019, 11:55 AM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Bottleneck pistol cartridges were not common..." Yeah, they were. They're far less common now. The C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser pistol was 7.63 x 25(AKA .30 Mauser and the basis for the Russian cartridge.) and select fire. Plus a bunch of assorted SMG's. The Luger pistol came in 7.65 x 21 Parabellum(aka .30 Parabellum). Before all of 'em was the 7.65×25mm Borchardt that the rest are based on and used in his Borchardt C-93 pistol, circa 1893. Anyway, if you want a 7.62 x 25 buy a Tokarev. Cost you a whole bunch less. Gunbroker prices vary a great deal. As do prices according to where it was made. CZ prices vary a lot too, but start at roughly $400 plus. Just remember that you're buying a pistol not the cartridge. "...CZ vs Tokarev..." Don't think there really is a VS. Except to milsurp pistol collectors who will likely have both anyway. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 2, 2019, 12:57 PM	#9
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	I have a Polish, and a Romanian TT-33, Yugo M57, and CZ52. Magazines are available for any in varying degrees. The M57 being the least common it seems. All are fun to shoot, reasonably accurate,and interesting in their design. Of the TT-33 based versions the M57 has a much better safety, if that is important to you. It also has a magazine capacity increased by 1. For a range blaster, neither are all that important. The add on safety (GCA 1968) works fine for range use on the TT-33 pistols, and one more round in the M57 isn't a big deal. But of the four 7.62X25 pistols I have the CZ 52 is certainly the most interesting with it's roller lock operating system similar to the German MG-42 machine gun. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

August 2, 2019, 05:42 AM	#2
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,451	You can usually get magazines from Triple K, and I have had good luck with their performance. I shoot a CZ-52, and mags (and parts) are available. If you're loading your own, think H110. I ended up backing off from Hornady's published max and still run 1,450 with XTP 90s.

August 2, 2019, 09:37 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	The current crop seems to be Romanian Tokarevs from AIM and others. 8 round magazines are available here and there, even eBay. Caution: The Yugoslavian Tokarev is a long butt 9 shot, different clip.

August 2, 2019, 11:11 AM	#7
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	If you can only afford one, get a Romanian- they are the cheapest, and that leaves money left over for ammo/mags. From what you said, I'd avoid the Yugo models, as they use a more 'unique' magazine, that is a bit more challenging to find. CZ vs Tokarev = flame suits. There are a lot of debates regarding which design is superior. The CZ is more technologically advanced, but the rollers require a bit more material be removed from the chamber area, and this 'could' contribute to some problem down the road. The Tokarev design is generally regarded as very strong. The CZ was DESIGNED to have a thumb safety, but- if you have one with broker internal pieces, 'decocking' it can fire it. [I would NEVER decock a single-action semi-auto onto a live round anyway- as I would never carry hammer down on live round. less safe and no point.] The Tokarev design did NOT allow for a safety- but they were added after the fact. The Romanian and Polish TT33 copies had safeties added to stop the trigger from moving. The Yugo had a safety that stopped the hammer or sear from moving [superior design]. However, the Yugo requires a longer magazine for the longer magazine well. The Polish ones were better finished than the Romanian ones- in 2008. The current Romanian ones are about equal [in my opinion] to the Polish ones. Now, if you are only going to buy one and money is NOT critical- look for the original- a Russian TT33. I recommend a TT33 and a CZ52. IF only one- I'd get the TT33 design and save some money. Just my thoughts.

August 2, 2019, 04:02 PM	#11
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	I had wanted a CZ52 since I was a kid, and saw it in WHB Smith's books. When I finally got one, I didn't care for it very much. The Tokarev, however, is an excellent pistol. I even carry it, from time to time...it is so thin, and the grip is short...not many 5" barrel service pistols that are as easy to IWB. And with my Romanian Tok, if I can see something, I can hit it...out to 100yds. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

August 2, 2019, 06:34 PM	#13
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Thanks for the replies, no interest in the CZ because it doesn't sound like it's a better gun than a Tokarev or Tokarev clone. The Yugo I wouldn't have an issue with so long as mags are available and not crazy expensive. I don't know what the prices for original Russian Tokarevs are, I can assume given the war history they're north of a grand... I can't justify that price when my goal is just to own and shoot a 7.62x25 pistol. Having said that tho, I would like it to be close to the Tokarev design. I can't say I'm going to shoot it much either. Maybe 100 or 200 rds a year. It sounds like the Romanian or Polish TT-33's are the way to go. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

August 3, 2019, 12:35 AM	#14
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	I have a number of Tokarevs, and M57s, love them all. AIM has Romanian pistols, good price on them, last few i got were these. All were in great shape. As for mags suplus are good, but JG Sales has Taiwan made ones that are good to go, for under $10. I use these over my surplus mags now, good construction and you don't have to deal with dented greased up surplus mags. If you buy ammo, go with S&B fmj, that stuff shoots great and as more FPS than most surplus and new production ammo. And the brass is good for reloading. I use it as my carry ammo as well. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

August 3, 2019, 11:05 PM	#15
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	If you're only going to get one, and you can't get a bring-back Chinese or Soviet, I'd go for the Yugo M57. That extra round makes the grip a pleasure to shoot. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details. Last edited by jonnyc; August 4, 2019 at 07:04 PM.

August 4, 2019, 06:06 AM	#16
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,099	I have CZ52-52, a Romanian, and a new production Zastava from Serbia. I love my CZ-52. I put nice aftermarket wood grips on it and the American made firing pin and internal parts that the guy on Makarov dot com sells, which gives it a real nice trigger. Reliable and accurate. The Romanian Tok is OK, but had the junkiest ad on safety that is required by import regs, which I ended up removing, so now I have a 3/8" hole through the frame. It also has a really heavy trigger. The new Serbian made Zastava's are nice, but make sure you can return it. The first one I had would fire when you let the slide go forward to load the first round and the hammer would follow the slide forward and not stay cocked on subsequent rounds. It was from a well known surplus dealer at our gunshows, and he was happy to take it back and provide me a different one. The new one worked fine and is accurate but magazine availability is nill or really expensive. The Cz is my fav, but I'd like to try an old Norinco Tok sometime.

August 6, 2019, 09:57 PM	#18
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,383	Bottleneck pistol cartridges were a LOT more common in the late 19th and early 20th centuries than they are today. Clement, Mars, Mauser, Luger, Bergman, Nambu, Borchardt offered handguns for a variety of bottleneck cartridges, many of which were chambered by other gun makers. Even the .50 Remington single shot pistol round was a bottleneck design. There was some fascination with bottleneck pistol rounds in America after World War II with rounds of like the 22 jet and the .256 magnum. And let's not forget the combination rifle/pistol rounds from the black powder era like the 4440 and the 3840. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

August 10, 2019, 02:40 PM	#19
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I've decided I'm gonna go with the Yugo M57. Mags are available and I would think unlike the 8 round mags for the TTC, the quality with the Yugo mags will be better given they were made to be used in one model of pistol. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

August 10, 2019, 03:27 PM	#20
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	7.62x25 Tokarev and .30 Mauser are very similar but NOT exactly the same. The Mauser was the model used to create the Tokarev.

August 10, 2019, 07:56 PM	#21
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"7.62x25 Tokarev and .30 Mauser are very similar but NOT exactly the same. The Mauser was the model used to create the Tokarev.' Eh.........sorta correct, but it depends on the country and individual manufacturers. They really are the same round. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

August 11, 2019, 05:09 AM	#22
artoo Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2012 Posts: 155	Just for your information Zastava m57 magazines can be hard to find and not. It depends on where you look. https://zastavaarmsusa.com/ https://www.facebook.com/ZastavaArmsUSA/ They claim to have shipped firearms to some distributors, but there is no time given for Zastava USA site dates given. Just after July of this year is what they said. __________________ NRA Life Member

August 11, 2019, 05:10 AM	#23
artoo Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2012 Posts: 155	I guess I should have said that I have two M57s. One old and a newer one. Good guns, those. __________________ NRA Life Member

August 12, 2019, 08:44 AM	#25
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,625	Round is as expensive as 357mag, is less than 200fps away from 1300fps 9mm... But what bugs me, the M57 (which is what you should get because the captured recoil spring and different barrel link) is good luck finding 9rnd M57 mags. But what REALLY bothers me, it's $200--which is nothing. But still a total rip. I too wanted one. The lack of mags and the occassional self destructing from a company I can't sue for ruining my fingers (lively hood) keeps me to the 357 when I want a thumper for now.