CMP 1911's

hodaka · December 5, 2017, 09:06 PM

We have been awaiting these for some time but the rules to acquire, along with the anticipated price, make these more trouble than they are worth. At least that is how it is looking to me. I bought an M1 and 2 carbines from them and it was much less hassle. I think I'll pass.

1stmar · December 5, 2017, 09:47 PM

Hope this doesn’t violate and forum rules. Got this today.

all CMP constituents:

The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army.

Some preliminary decisions further clarified:
Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.
All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed.
Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a "proceed" from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer.
The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person at the FFL dealers place of business, successfully passing a NICS check performed by the FFL holder, before the pistol can be transferred. This is a second NICS check performed on the customer.
Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.
CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery.
Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one.
As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.

TunnelRat · December 5, 2017, 10:02 PM

If someone served in the military and used one of these I get the appeal. For collectors of millitaria I get the appeal. I think those two groups combined will more than sell out the stock of 1911s. Is it something I personally am interested in? Honestly no.

JDBerg · December 6, 2017, 12:21 AM

I read something that estimated the price of CMP 1911 pistols to be about 30-50% less than the current market price. The market price for WWII M1911 pistols is about $1000 – $4000+. $2000 seems to be the going price for Service Grade pistols.
Based on the market prices, the CMP’s pricing history and the the increase of supply that these pistols will bring to the market, a guesstimate of pricing for CMP 1911 pistols are:

CMP Rack Grade 1911 Price – *
CMP Field Grade 1911 Price $750
CMP Service Grade 1911 Price $850
CMP Special Grade 1911 Price $1100
Other ** $1800 +

* This source did not expect there to be rack grade pistols for sale by the CMP initially.
** Depending on what is in the Army inventory, there could be a range of rare pistols in their own categories, but not rare enough to go to auction.

I personally hope the prices will be lower than these estimates. Many people are hoping for $500 1911 pistols but this source does not realistically expect this to happen. Modern 1911 pistols are popular enough in their own right without the added attraction of being military surplus.

rodfac · December 6, 2017, 07:37 AM

Aside from the one I carried for a part of my first tour, 47 years ago, (a 1943 Remington-Rand in nearly new condition), I'm not interested. A decade ago, I found one that matched that pistol in all but serial number...it's a good shooter too...groups with selected loads running down around 2"-2.5". Rod

WVsig · December 6, 2017, 08:35 AM

Too many obstacles and hoops to jump through to get a worn out pistol IMHO.

Kilrb · December 6, 2017, 12:13 PM

Same here I was going to get one has some marine friends getting all of the info for me. Will pass find one another way.

lamarw · December 6, 2017, 12:24 PM

I suspect those prices are just someone's vivid imagination. I would like to think they would be so reasonably priced.

The only thing that worries me is the lottery system since I am not a lucky sort. It would be just my luck I would get a high number and all the premium pistols were gone by the time I got to choose.

At least they are attempting to limiting it to one per person per year.

KyJim · December 8, 2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.

1. Does anybody know what a "form 2A" is?

2. What does "proof of participation in a markmanship activity" mean? I'm a member of club affiliated with CMP but don't participate in formal events.

Fishbed77 · December 8, 2017, 10:57 AM

Quote:

1. Does anybody know what a "form 2A" is?

2. What does "proof of participation in a markmanship activity" mean? I'm a member of club affiliated with CMP but don't participate in formal events.

If I recall correctly (it's been a few years since I ordered from the CMP), the 2A is the form with your personal info that has to be filled out and then signed in the presence of a Notary.

A scan of your concealed weapons permit will suffice as "proof of participation in a marksmanship activity".

USSR · December 8, 2017, 11:21 AM

Quote:

A scan of your concealed weapons permit will suffice as "proof of participation in a marksmanship activity".

Are you sure about that?

Don

**Aguila Blanca** · December 9, 2017, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

A scan of your concealed weapons permit will suffice as "proof of participation in a marksmanship activity".

????

trophyrider · December 10, 2017, 09:59 AM

Copied from the CMP website.

Marksmanship or other Firearms Related Activity:

You must provide proof of participation in a marksmanship related activity or otherwise show familiarity with the safe handling of firearms and range procedures. Your marksmanship related activity does not have to be with highpower rifles; it can be with smallbore rifles, pistols, air guns or shotguns. Proof of marksmanship participation can be provided by documenting any of the following:

Current or past military service.
Current or past law enforcement service
Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor). Visit https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.p...ch&task=search to find an upcoming CMP sanctioned clinic or match.
Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
Concealed Carry License.
Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training. - FFL or C&R license.
Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. Complete the CMP Marksmanship Form to certify your range firing and the required marksmanship related activity for an individual to purchase from the CMP.

USSR · December 10, 2017, 02:45 PM

Thanks for posting that trophyrider, that makes things a whole lot simpler.

Don

agtman · December 10, 2017, 06:35 PM

Most of these CMP 1911s in condition will be overpriced range "beaters," but will still be consigned to the back of the buyer's safe on the belief they carry some sort of magical "collector" value.

fourbore · December 10, 2017, 08:19 PM

Anyone know if a C&R holder can buy directly and perhaps the C&R satisfy any other requirement in addition to the proof of marksmanship?

I am specifically hung up on the CMP affiliated club. Does member of NRA apply?

Tad_T · December 10, 2017, 10:10 PM

C&R = nope.

Ibmikey · December 10, 2017, 10:53 PM

Altman, What do you base your conclusions upon? Are you affiliated with CMP or otherwise have information that the potential buyers should know before making a purchase? Or is this your personal opinion not based on fact.? Thanks?

Model12Win · December 11, 2017, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agtman

Most of these CMP 1911s in condition will be overpriced range "beaters," but will still be consigned to the back of the buyer's safe on the belief they carry some sort of magical "collector" value.

Nonsense.

The original M1911A1 service pistols are INCREDIBLY collectible firearms.

**44 AMP** · December 11, 2017, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Too many obstacles and hoops to jump through to get a worn out pistol IMHO.

Quote:

Most of these CMP 1911s in condition will be overpriced range "beaters,"..

Where are these guns coming from? Army?? Navy?? Marine? Air Force???

No doubt some will be finish worn, some might be mechanically worn, but all will be functional and meet service requirements.

I inspected the .45s of a couple of Army divisions in the mid 70s. Some were pretty worn looking, a few were almost new 1911s (not 1911A1s).

You might get something that went through Guadalcanal and Chosen, (and looks like it) or you might get something that lived in a Navy arms room since 1928, and only saw guard duty and some officers yearly qualification shooting (if that).

I would assume that if the gun you go to pick up isn't up to your standards, you could refuse the sale, and get your money back. If you want an actual GI gun, these are it. If you want something that meets today's standards, go buy something else.

And, no, I won't be buying one. I had one for many years, my desire for them has already been met, for many years.

Model12Win · December 11, 2017, 02:32 AM

I'm just glad they will be priced high so that us COLLECTORS can absorb them for ourselves. God forbid they get into the hands of the riff raff who might want to actually go SHOOT them, that would be ruining history!! It's our duty as gun collectors to scavenge the land for all manners of interesting old guns to fill our climate controlled safes with, ensuring they never ever see the light of day or any range use lest their precious collector's value decline!!

agtman · December 11, 2017, 07:28 AM

Quote:

I'm just glad they will be priced high so that us COLLECTORS can absorb them for ourselves. God forbid they get into the hands of the riff raff who might want to actually go SHOOT them, that would be ruining history!! It's our duty as gun collectors to scavenge the land for all manners of interesting old guns to fill our climate controlled safes with, ensuring they never ever see the light of day or any range use lest their precious collector's value decline!!

Now that's the ol' CMP spirit we're talking about!

Well said.

WVsig · December 11, 2017, 09:57 AM

They are not shipping these guns directly to C&R holders. They must go to a Class 01 FFL dealer.

Quote:

Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.

Proof of marksmanship has already been answered. A Conceal carry permit or your C&R lic should satisfy the marksmanship part of the requirements.

Quote:

Current or past military service.
Current or past law enforcement service
Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor). Visit https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.p...ch&task=search to find an upcoming CMP sanctioned clinic or match.
Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
Concealed Carry License.
Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training. - FFL or C&R license.
Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. Complete the CMP Marksmanship Form to certify your range firing and the required marksmanship related activity for an individual to purchase from the CMP.

The cheapest and easiest CMP club to join is Garand Collectors Association. http://thegca.org/product/gca-membership-2/

$25 and they submit your info directly to CMP.

WVsig · December 11, 2017, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Where are these guns coming from? Army?? Navy?? Marine? Air Force???

No doubt some will be finish worn, some might be mechanically worn, but all will be functional and meet service requirements.

I inspected the .45s of a couple of Army divisions in the mid 70s. Some were pretty worn looking, a few were almost new 1911s (not 1911A1s).

You might get something that went through Guadalcanal and Chosen, (and looks like it) or you might get something that lived in a Navy arms room since 1928, and only saw guard duty and some officers yearly qualification shooting (if that).

I would assume that if the gun you go to pick up isn't up to your standards, you could refuse the sale, and get your money back. If you want an actual GI gun, these are it. If you want something that meets today's standards, go buy something else.

And, no, I won't be buying one. I had one for many years, my desire for them has already been met, for many years.

I completely stand by my original statement. The process has several obstacles and hurdles involved to get a chance to get a pistol. If you are not always setup for CMP purchasing you are going to pay $50 give or take to get your application there. There is no guarantee that you will be one of the 10,000 who make the lottery. Once you are in the lottery it is a complete crapshoot about what pistol you will be allowed to purchase sight unseen.

I agree that some of the guns could be in excellent condition but I believe these will be the minority. I think it is reasonable to believe that most will show significant wear but should be mechanically functional. So I guess my thoughts stay the same. I fully understand that others will view it differently and if you are already setup to buy from CMP the hassle is lessened so that might also play heavily.

I am like you my GI 1911 "need" has been satisfied by something already in the safe so that might taint my thoughts on the subject. Clearly YMMV

Jim Watson · December 11, 2017, 10:21 AM

There is a program which supplies government surplus to local law enforcement.

A municipal department got a few 1911A1s, of which I have seen three. Two were fresh refurbs, the other was either a pristine Remington Rand or a fresh refurb with all RR parts. If the CMP sends out many like those, there will be a lot of happy campers, war stories of worn out guard and training guns notwithstanding. But will the CMP guns be so nice? We will just have to wait and see.

If you look on the 1911 board and see some of the junk being foisted off on entry level collectors, you would consider a worn out guard gun a step up. Sorry examples to outright fraud.

December 5, 2017, 09:06 PM	#1
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	CMP 1911's We have been awaiting these for some time but the rules to acquire, along with the anticipated price, make these more trouble than they are worth. At least that is how it is looking to me. I bought an M1 and 2 carbines from them and it was much less hassle. I think I'll pass.

December 5, 2017, 10:02 PM	#3
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	If someone served in the military and used one of these I get the appeal. For collectors of millitaria I get the appeal. I think those two groups combined will more than sell out the stock of 1911s. Is it something I personally am interested in? Honestly no. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

December 6, 2017, 12:21 AM	#4
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	I read something that estimated the price of CMP 1911 pistols to be about 30-50% less than the current market price. The market price for WWII M1911 pistols is about $1000 – $4000+. $2000 seems to be the going price for Service Grade pistols. Based on the market prices, the CMP’s pricing history and the the increase of supply that these pistols will bring to the market, a guesstimate of pricing for CMP 1911 pistols are: CMP Rack Grade 1911 Price – * CMP Field Grade 1911 Price $750 CMP Service Grade 1911 Price $850 CMP Special Grade 1911 Price $1100 Other ** $1800 + * This source did not expect there to be rack grade pistols for sale by the CMP initially. ** Depending on what is in the Army inventory, there could be a range of rare pistols in their own categories, but not rare enough to go to auction. I personally hope the prices will be lower than these estimates. Many people are hoping for $500 1911 pistols but this source does not realistically expect this to happen. Modern 1911 pistols are popular enough in their own right without the added attraction of being military surplus. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

December 6, 2017, 07:37 AM	#5
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Aside from the one I carried for a part of my first tour, 47 years ago, (a 1943 Remington-Rand in nearly new condition), I'm not interested. A decade ago, I found one that matched that pistol in all but serial number...it's a good shooter too...groups with selected loads running down around 2"-2.5". Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

December 6, 2017, 08:35 AM	#6
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Too many obstacles and hoops to jump through to get a worn out pistol IMHO. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

December 5, 2017, 09:47 PM	#2
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hope this doesn’t violate and forum rules. Got this today. all CMP constituents: The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army. Some preliminary decisions further clarified: Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt. All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed. Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to. A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a "proceed" from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer. The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person at the FFL dealers place of business, successfully passing a NICS check performed by the FFL holder, before the pistol can be transferred. This is a second NICS check performed on the customer. Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year. No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales. CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world. Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery. Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders. Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator. The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP. Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator. When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one. As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.

December 6, 2017, 12:13 PM	#7
Kilrb Member Join Date: September 20, 2017 Posts: 25	Same here I was going to get one has some marine friends getting all of the info for me. Will pass find one another way.

December 6, 2017, 12:24 PM	#8
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I suspect those prices are just someone's vivid imagination. I would like to think they would be so reasonably priced. The only thing that worries me is the lottery system since I am not a lucky sort. It would be just my luck I would get a high number and all the premium pistols were gone by the time I got to choose. At least they are attempting to limiting it to one per person per year.

December 10, 2017, 09:59 AM	#13
trophyrider Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 56	Copied from the CMP website. Marksmanship or other Firearms Related Activity: You must provide proof of participation in a marksmanship related activity or otherwise show familiarity with the safe handling of firearms and range procedures. Your marksmanship related activity does not have to be with highpower rifles; it can be with smallbore rifles, pistols, air guns or shotguns. Proof of marksmanship participation can be provided by documenting any of the following: Current or past military service. Current or past law enforcement service Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin). Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor). Visit https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.p...ch&task=search to find an upcoming CMP sanctioned clinic or match. Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status. Concealed Carry License. Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training. - FFL or C&R license. Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training. Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. Complete the CMP Marksmanship Form to certify your range firing and the required marksmanship related activity for an individual to purchase from the CMP.

December 10, 2017, 02:45 PM	#14
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Thanks for posting that trophyrider, that makes things a whole lot simpler. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

December 10, 2017, 06:35 PM	#15
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Most of these CMP 1911s in condition will be overpriced range "beaters," but will still be consigned to the back of the buyer's safe on the belief they carry some sort of magical "collector" value. Last edited by agtman; December 10, 2017 at 08:47 PM.

December 10, 2017, 08:19 PM	#16
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	Anyone know if a C&R holder can buy directly and perhaps the C&R satisfy any other requirement in addition to the proof of marksmanship? I am specifically hung up on the CMP affiliated club. Does member of NRA apply?

December 10, 2017, 10:10 PM	#17
Tad_T Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 231	C&R = nope.

December 10, 2017, 10:53 PM	#18
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	Altman, What do you base your conclusions upon? Are you affiliated with CMP or otherwise have information that the potential buyers should know before making a purchase? Or is this your personal opinion not based on fact.? Thanks?

December 11, 2017, 02:32 AM	#21
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I'm just glad they will be priced high so that us COLLECTORS can absorb them for ourselves. God forbid they get into the hands of the riff raff who might want to actually go SHOOT them, that would be ruining history!! It's our duty as gun collectors to scavenge the land for all manners of interesting old guns to fill our climate controlled safes with, ensuring they never ever see the light of day or any range use lest their precious collector's value decline!!

December 11, 2017, 10:21 AM	#25
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	There is a program which supplies government surplus to local law enforcement. A municipal department got a few 1911A1s, of which I have seen three. Two were fresh refurbs, the other was either a pristine Remington Rand or a fresh refurb with all RR parts. If the CMP sends out many like those, there will be a lot of happy campers, war stories of worn out guard and training guns notwithstanding. But will the CMP guns be so nice? We will just have to wait and see. If you look on the 1911 board and see some of the junk being foisted off on entry level collectors, you would consider a worn out guard gun a step up. Sorry examples to outright fraud.