Building a 1911? What parts?

[Siggy-06]

Lately I've been building a few AR-15s and tinkering with a few handguns and it got me thinking about building a pistol from the frame up. So why not a 1911 then?

I selected a Caspian stainless reciever so far. What parts do I need to complete just the frame(i.e. beaver tail, plunger, trigger, what pins, ect.)? It will be in .45acp and the slide assembly will come later. Thanks.

[Chui]

Wilson Bullet Broof


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[Bill DeShivs]

Um- all of them?

[Siggy-06]

A list would be appreciated. I just need to make sure I dont miss anything.

[Aguila Blanca]

• slide stop
• Trigger
• Magazine catch
• Magazine catch lock
• Magazine catch lock spring
• Ejector
• Ejector pin
• Disconnector
• Sear
• Sear pin
• Sear spring
• Hammer
• Hammer strut
• Hammer strut pin
• Hammer pin
• Mainspring housing
• Mainspring cap
• Mainspring
• Mainspring pin retainer
• Mainspring cap retainer pin
• Mainspring housing retainer pin
• Grip screw bushings (4)
• Grip screws (4)
• Grip safety
• Plunger tube
• plunger spring assembly (spring + two pins)
• Thumb safety

I think that's it. If your slide has a firing pin safety block, there will be a couple of additional levers in the frame.

[BigJimP]

You don't know the parts you'll need.....but you want to build ( and custom fit ) those parts to a receiver.....???

Interesting....

And you'll do the slide later...which means fitting the slide to the frame...and the barrel to the slide -- among other things...so it locks up properly, etc..../ which isn't easy either by the way....

I wish you luck..../ ..by the way " google is your friend"...its really easy to get a list of parts for a 1911...

I recommend parts from Wilson Combat as well.

[shaunpain]

I've only built one myself as the frame and slide were too cheap to pass up. Most of the parts are Wilson Bullet Proof, but some other manufacturers as well to get the exact look and function I was looking for. Some Fusion billet stuff, Remington MSH and trigger, Ed Brown drop in fire controls. I believe my entire magazine catch assembly is Evolution - it's an Allen Key design that I fancy. As another poster said, the vast majority of your parts go into the frame. The slide has very few parts. I would recommend getting the Wilson spring and pin packs to start. Good luck!

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[Jack19]

https://www.fusionfirearms.com/parts/1911-parts-kits

[Ibmikey]

Building a 1911 is not normally for the faint of ❤️ heart. Fitting the slide to the frame rails can be a chore as material removed is gone forever. A tight fitting slide will aid in accuracy but may cause malfunctions, a loose slide will overcome some malfunctions but target accuracy will suffer. So what I am saying is the slide should run true without hills and valleys in the rail contact points. Most of the parts will be drop in if purchased From the same source, however, be prepared for fitting there if necessary.

[Siggy-06]

Thanks for all the info/input guys. I feel like the effort is worth the overall outcome. I'm an electric/mechanical engineer by trade and have full access to a machine shop and cnc machines if really needed. So far staking the safety tube and slide fitment sound like the most hassle but I can do both for sure.

[Aguila Blanca]

Staking the plunger tube requires a special tool. If you don't have that (there are a couple of versions available, neither cheap) you can't do it. It cannot be done with any hand or power tool normally found in a general purpose machine shop.

There is, however, a special plunger tube that's attached with screws.

[Siggy-06]

Bownells has a plunger tube tool for $60ish with different replacable tips. I could ask one of my 2 gunsmiths if they have one available also.

[Ibmikey]

Most frames you purchase will have the tunnel installed,,,.at least that was the case a few years back when I did my last one. Has anyone information on the status of Essex Arms manufacturer of 1911 frames?

[Don P]

Nice to want to build one from the ground up. Pricey yes. Just my opinion better off in the long run to buy a 1911A1 off the shelf. Gun will come with a warranty is a big one for me and cost less than you will wind up spending on a build. If money is no object the have at it. may have to buy duplicate parts due to making mistakes with filing and fitting. Its a bit more involved that putting an AR together. 1911's can be a bit more finicky to get them to run.
2 shop manuals I recommend are the Colt .45 Automatic, a shop manual volume 1, and the U.S. M1911/M1911A1 Pistols & commercial M1911 type pistol, A shop manual, both by Jerry Kuhnhausen

[44 AMP]

What parts do I need to complete just the frame(i.e. beaver tail, plunger, trigger, what pins, ect.)?

#1 A good, clear exploded drawing showing all the parts.
#2 Instructions (printed)

Aguila Blanca gave a pretty good list, but left off "Grips", which you are going to need.

The first thing you need to do is decide what kind of gun you are going to assemble. (and while I realize that "build" is the popular term in use, you are not really building a gun, you are assembling one.)

There are two basic types of 1911A1. The "stock" GI pattern (and spec) gun, the same as was used in WWII, and then there is "everything else".

When you ..build.. a GI spec gun, with GI spec parts, no fitting will be needed. The gun will function, and be minute of man accurate (at the least). When you use anything else, all bets are off.

Today, we have literally dozens of 1911A1 parts makers. Some are GI spec, some are not. Some claim to be, and are not. If not, that's where fitting will be needed.

Special tools are needed to install the plunger tube, grip screw bushings, and front sight (in the GI gun) The ejector is press fitted to the frame in the original GI gun. Replacement ejectors are held in place with a retaining pin, for which the frame must be drilled.

Current civilian frames come in different "flavors", and if you get one with the ejector, plunger tube, and grip screw bushings already installed, you will be better off.

If you are going to build a gun from the supply of aftermarket parts available today, it's pretty much a given some fitting will be needed. There is a learning curve to that, and you are starting at the bottom, so be prepared.

Do some more research, not knowing what you don't know is a bigger handicap than knowing what you don't know.

And just FYI, the "beavertail" is not a part. It is a style of a part, the grip safety.

Good Luck, and we're here to answer any questions we can.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Ibmikey

Most frames you purchase will have the tunnel installed,,,.at least that was the case a few years back when I did my last one. Has anyone information on the status of Essex Arms manufacturer of 1911 frames?

Caspian frames don't include the plunger tube. I believe you can (or could, at one time) pay them to install it, but that makes final polishing of the flats more difficult.

Essex went belly up many years ago.

[T. O'Heir]

A machine shop and cnc machines aren't required or even useful. All those wee parts are fitted by hand using stones mostly.
If you've already opted for an SS Frame, not recEIver, it's best to use all SS parts too.
#1. http://stevespages.com/ipb-colt-1911.html
This ones a bit better as it shows where the wee bits go in relation to each other by slide, frame and It's bigger too.
http://stevespages.com/ipb-colt-goldcupmkiii.html

[HiBC]

You said you are an engineer. I'll speak the language. Building a 1911 has not much in common with building an AR.
An AR is pretty much an ISO-9000 style operation. Build an upper,build a lower assembling parts that will nearly always work together. Then pin the upper on the lower.

That just does not translate to a 1911. John Moses Browning came from a different era than Eugene Stoner.

Get the Kunhausens and study. Hidden in the simplicity of a 1911 is a subtle elegance. A choreography.You must understand how JMB composes.

The notion that you will build the frame and get the slide later tells me you don't quite understand yet.

You begin a 1911 build with the frame and slide. And the barrel and bushing.

I worked with Parametric Technology's Pro-Engineer software.They use "Parent /Child" relationships.
Features dependent on previous features,begining with 3 planes and a co-ordinate system.
A 1911 is built that way.
If you want to assemble a 1911 of drop in parts,buy a 1911,take it apart,and assemble it. Hint,most drop in parts do not drop in properly in a 1911.

You fit the slide to the frame first. Then you fit the barrel and bushing to the slide. This includes fitting the hood,the locking lugs,and making the firing pin hole in the slide centered in the slide. This becomes a Prussian blue transfer fitting job.
Later,when you fit the barrel underlug to the slide stop...you want the barrel underlug feet resting on the slide stop pin ,held in the frame. The barrel locking lugs are fully engaged in the slide. I strive for a nice Prussian blue transfer here.
Really study and understand all that happens in the geometry of the barrel underlug and slide stop.
The barrel underlug comes back and stops against the frame . That timing is critical and must be checked. Often,there is extra steel.Then the correct length link pulls the barrel out of lockup,down to rest on the frame saddle.Thats a barrel,frame,link event.
At this time,there must be dynamic clearance between the barrel and slide.The locking lugs nicking each other as the slide recoils can happen,and that's bad.Later the link positions the barrel up in the right place so the slide stop can take over lockup.The bushing fit must allow the barrel to link up/down.
You will check the slide slightly over cocks the hammer so the sear can engage,but not too much.

Hammer,sear,disconnect...I minimize my work on these.I buy premium parts and verify they work in a safe manner.
By the time you are figuring out how the heck to file a thumb safety to function,and make a beavertail grip safety work right, you will understand.As you slightly tweak the fingers of the sear spring...

Then there are the nuances of a few file strokes and a little bending on the extractor,filing the nose of the ejector...after fitting the ejector to the frame!

A 1911 builder brings all this together fitting parts in a sequence.

I buy pins,springs,plungers,etc as kits . Ed Brown,Cyl and Slide,etc. Two kits is not bad.We may need a spare pin or spring occasionally.

[straightshooterjake]

There is a lot of good info in this thread, but there are still two general points I would like to mention.

First, 1911s are hand fit guns. In my view, firearms can broadly be divided into two categories, ones where new parts drop in easily, and ones where parts do not interchange and need to be hand fitted. AR-15s are the classic example of firearms where parts interchange. Many new parts for AR-15s just drop in and fit together like legos. Most of the parts kits for polymer pistols also just fit right in without modification.

1911s are hand fit guns. The design is from a different era and standards were different. Quality parts for a 1911 will not fit in place. In fact, they are not supposed to fit; they are intended to be oversized and require hand fitting. When properly done, hand fitting can produce extremely good results, but that is not always easy to do. Most of the time, the parts are just a few thousandths oversize, and the fitting is done with files and stones. A machine shop is not necessarily useful for these jobs.

The next point I would like to suggest is: if you want to learn to build a 1911, buy a base model gun and start improving it. A base model from any quality manufacturers will do to start with. Then start changing the gun to suit you. Do a trigger job, fit a new barrel and bushing, change the safeties. The advantage of starting with a working gun is that after each small job, you can immediately test whether you still have working gun. I highly recommend rebuilding a basic model or two before you try to build a gun from a bare frame.

And one last thought, the Kuhnhausen manuals mentioned in another post are pretty much required.

[44 AMP]

1911s are hand fit guns. The design is from a different era and standards were different. Quality parts for a 1911 will not fit in place. In fact, they are not supposed to fit; they are intended to be oversized and require hand fitting.

I most emphatically disagree. Modern commercial guns from all over may fit that definition, but the original 1911/1911A1 did not.

I was a Small Arms Repairman (MOS 45B20) in the mid 70s, when the 1911A1 was still the service pistol. I was rated to do any and all repairs to the 1911A1 except repairing a cracked frame.

I can assure you that "quality" parts were a drop in fit, and if they weren't, they weren't quality parts and you grabbed another part that did fit. Yes, we had stones, and files, and almost never used them. In fact, the only use I ever saw of "fitting" anything (on any of the weapons) was when we couldn't get the proper replacement part.

Parts were NOT made oversize and intended to be fitted, govt inspectors helped insure parts quality and tolerances in spec.

We don't have that in the commercial market. Lots of 1911A1 pattern gun and parts makers use their own specs, to "improve" the product, and there is no govt oversight to ensure everyone makes things to the same specs.

This why you need to be concerned about fitting with commercial 1911A1 parts today.

The difference almost makes them different guns. This is the reason "everyone on the Internet knows" that 1911A1s are cranky, tempermental, need fitting, etc. It's the old story of too many cooks, in reality.

There's a reason you don't hear scads of stories about how the pistols the military used needed to be worked on before they would run right. Never hear of them needing any special fitting (other than to run ammunition the gun was never designed for -hollow points). Just the opposite. You hear about how reliable they were with FMJ ammo. You DO hear about how they weren't accurate, but not how they would fail to work.

Many of the "war stories" about how GI .45s weren't accurate is a combination of the storyteller not being a good pistol shot in the first place (the military did not teach people to shoot the pistol very well) and/or experience with GI .45s in the 60s and 70s when many of the guns were quite worn, as far as accuracy was concerned.

I can tell you for a fact that Army standards in the repair units were never concerned with accuracy. Function was the standard.

[HiBC]

44 AMP,I mostly agree with what you said.It would boil down to a long discussion of tolerancing.
Generally speaking,the more designed in clearance,the more forgiving a design is in assembly.
In large part,this realization evolved from wartime production of aircraft.
The Craftsman might believe a .257 clearance hole for a 1/4 in bolt is higher "quality" than a .281 clearance hole. In fact,both may be "in tolerance"
But the parts with multiple .281 holes will have fewer assembly problems in the field.Aircraft bonus,they are a bit lighter.

Statistics also enter into tolerancing. Its a bit rare for worst case features to stack. Often grabbing another in tolerance part is the cure.

I read someplace that,at least on early war production 1911's,the somewhat malleable locking lugs were "fitted in" by firing the proof loads.

We know the 1911 is a robust enough design to function "good enough" (for a while) when the link rather than the slide stop and barrel lug fit is holding full battery. Many 1911 "mechanics" think they are fixing something with a link change when they don't really know why.Many running,shooting 1911's are not running the way JMB planned.

I think we agree there are more than one kind of 1911.

IMO,generally,a $400 Philippine RIA or ATI mil-spec will offer a more functionally correct 1911 than the best efforts of the well intentioned first (or second) time builder spending a lot of money at Brownells on Wilson,Baer,Brown,STI,and Nowlin, BarSto,Caspian etc parts.

Essentially,the RIA or Springfield MilSpec is a bag of Mil-Spec parts that have been assembled. Its just another way to buy the parts.Pretty much guaranteed to go together and work.Where do you buy those parts cheaper?

I think that's not usually the dream 1911 most amateur builders jump in for.

Or at least,they may be surprised if they buy $700 worth of "drop in "parts.
Folks don't buy a $250 frame,a $250 slide,and a $230 barrel and $20 worth of grip screws to build a Mil-Spec gun.Now add in Kunhausen books,those $60 "special files" a sear jig,a barrel centering block,a lug cutter,etc...and all the little parts? Sights,safeties,hammer,trigger,sear,disconnect? Pretty soon a $1200 1911 is not so high.

Few people build an engine to duplicate a production line replacement crate motor. Even bone stock there will be efforts to "blueprint"...or why do it?

It seldom save money.

[Kilibreaux]

The SIMPLE answer is to just buy any generic brand of 1911 and install whatever parts YOU think are needed.

[straightshooterjake]

44AMP, thanks for the informative post. That gives me a much better understanding of the fitting and maintenance of military 1911s.

However, I still stand by my general point. Most people who want to build a 1911 want to build a gun that is "better" than mil-spec. And the aftermarket parts sold for this purpose require knowledge and skill to fit them so the gun actually works. Ask me how I know.

[dahermit]

The SIMPLE answer is to just buy any generic brand of 1911 and install whatever parts YOU think are needed.

He said he has already selected a Caspian frame. If that means he has already bought it, he is already committed to doing a build.

[Siggy-06]

Thanks again for the input everyone, and the different sources for build information. I have already purchased parts and pins. If filing is required, I have all the necessary tools for that.

This isn't meant to be a $3000 bullseye gun by any means. Its just a fun project that I'll do my best on and hopefully keep the cost below $1000. I'm sure they'll be bugs to work out and if I can't do it, then my one of my gunsmiths will.