Sling Band on Barrel a Problem?

DaleA · December 12, 2017, 04:13 PM

Took a look at the Ruger #1 .450 Marlin and saw the sling attached to the rifle via a band on the barrel. Would tension on the sling affect the point of impact?

https://ruger.com/products/no1/specSheets/21313.html

I realize several manufacturers do this, not just Ruger.

JJ45 · December 12, 2017, 05:41 PM

If you use a "tight sling" to steady the rifle the point of impact will probably differ from your normal hold and sight in...it changes the barrel harmonics (vibrations) when you put pressure on the tube, somewhat similar to resting the barrel on something, instead of the fore end, when shooting from any position.

How much change is dependent on the rifle, barrel, etc., etc., might not be enough to worry about if it's a relatively close shot.

5whiskey · December 12, 2017, 08:37 PM

For the purpose of slinging the rifle over your shoulder, but shooting with the sling hanging loose, this should not affect anything. As JJ said, if you use a "loop" or "Hasty" support sling, it could remotely affect POI.

But then again, the USMC teaches (or at least did) to use a loop sling for M16 and M4 qualification out to 500 yards. Those slings were about as taught as you can get without cutting off blood to your arm, and they were attached to the sling swivel hanging from the gas block of the M16. The gas block attached to the barrel, so same concept. I never observed a significant difference from using a loop sling to just firing from a rest. With this in mind, I say that it will make no difference as long as we're not talking about a pencil-thin barrel. It does not appear to be.

Dfariswheel · December 12, 2017, 08:40 PM

The sling mount band on the barrel was primarily a "thing" of large caliber, short range rifles, often African game rifles.

Once it was understood that it changed point of impact, most makers stopped using it on longer range accuracy rifles.
The Ruger #1 is a traditional style single shot where the band fits in with the throw-back type of rifle it is.

jmr40 · December 12, 2017, 09:12 PM

They are mounted on the barrel of heavy kickers to prevent the hand holding the forend from getting cut on the front sling attachment during recoil. As said those rifles aren't usually precision rifles anyway

30Cal · December 12, 2017, 10:03 PM

Hard to say. I can pull a standard M1 Garand down 3 minutes when I sling in prone, tight. I don't get that with a heavier match profile barrel.

That's with a heck of a lot of tension though. And I couldn't pull nearly that much on that Ruger #1 since I wouldn't be able to jam my hand up into the sling swivel.

Mobuck · December 14, 2017, 07:23 AM

"They are mounted on the barrel of heavy kickers to prevent the hand holding the forend from getting cut on the front sling attachment during recoil. As said those rifles aren't usually precision rifles anyway"

Correct.
Won't make much diff on a #1 since that much "sling tension" anywhere ahead of the action will likely alter POI or accuracy.

ThomasT · December 14, 2017, 03:24 PM

When I took my hunters safety course many years ago the instructor had a deer rifle with a collometer in the barrel. He had you look through the scope at the collometer grid and then would put pressure on the barrel with his finger. You could see the shift in the aiming point with just a slight amount of pressure.

That was with a standard sporter weight barrel. I am sure it would affect a heavier barrel of a #1 but not as much. It sounds like something you would have to check at the range.

NMC_EXP · December 14, 2017, 04:37 PM

How much it changes POI will depend entirely on sling tension and how stiff the barrel is.

The only example I have is a Ruger 183 Series Mini 14. This is an early pencil barrel model. The forward sling swivel is on the barrel gas block. At 100 yards sling tension moved POI 2" down and 1" left.

natman · December 14, 2017, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleA

Took a look at the Ruger #1 .450 Marlin and saw the sling attached to the rifle via a band on the barrel. Would tension on the sling affect the point of impact?

Yes.

The barrel mount sling swivel is intended for dangerous game rifles, which are shot offhand with the sling removed. For normal hunting from sitting, kneeling and prone they are the wrong way to mount a sling.

hdwhit · December 14, 2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Dale A asked:
Would tension on the sling affect the point of impact?

It can. How much is dependent upon the stiffness of the barrel, the position of the band and the amount of tension on the sling.

This is exactly the case of the conventional AR platform with the front sling swivel attached to the bottom of the front sight halfway between the chamber and muzzle.

And yes, whether it is an M1 Carbine, a Mini-14, an AR15, Ruger #1 or any of a number of similar rifles, tension on the sling can move the point of impact. I have slings on all such rifles and I use the sling to support the rifle when it is shouldered. I take it for granted that the tension will deflect the barrel and impact point of aim and make sure to sight in my rifles with sling under tension so that the deflection is more or less consistent.

DaleA · December 14, 2017, 07:21 PM

Many thanks for all the replies. I really do enjoy this site.

reynolds357 · December 16, 2017, 05:34 PM

If it is a 6ppc, worry about it. A 450 Marlin? Not to the level of precision you will ever see a measurable difference.

Paul B. · December 17, 2017, 03:35 PM

I don't think the sling band on the barrel is primarily a dangerous game of heavy caliber rifle thing. I've seen too many BRNO sporters in 7x57, 8x57 just to name two cartridges that were not dangerous game guns, not to mention many pre-war Mausers in light caliber cartridges.
My custom FN Mauser in 7x57 has the barrel band and even the pre-war style schnable forearm. I did at one time have a Mauser sporter that was definitely pre-war and of British design similar to the Rigby. It was made in some small shop, I forget whose but to this day I'm still kicking myself for ever letting it do.
Methinks, especially in the lighter sporters it was just more a style than anything else. They do serve a purpose in the muzzle sits a lot lower when going in thickly forested and heavily tall brushed areas.
Paul B.

natman · December 17, 2017, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B.

I don't think the sling band on the barrel is primarily a dangerous game of heavy caliber rifle thing. I've seen too many BRNO sporters in 7x57, 8x57 just to name two cartridges that were not dangerous game guns, not to mention many pre-war Mausers in light caliber cartridges.

A dangerous game rifle is the only one where a barrel band swivel *should* be used, since it is fired with the sling removed.

Lots of other rifles use it for both styling reasons and for the carry advantages you mention. However, giving up the accuracy advantages of a stock mounted sling swivel is a bad trade for most rifles.

December 12, 2017, 09:12 PM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	They are mounted on the barrel of heavy kickers to prevent the hand holding the forend from getting cut on the front sling attachment during recoil. As said those rifles aren't usually precision rifles anyway __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

December 16, 2017, 05:34 PM	#13
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	If it is a 6ppc, worry about it. A 450 Marlin? Not to the level of precision you will ever see a measurable difference. Last edited by reynolds357; December 17, 2017 at 10:26 PM.

December 17, 2017, 03:35 PM	#14
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I don't think the sling band on the barrel is primarily a dangerous game of heavy caliber rifle thing. I've seen too many BRNO sporters in 7x57, 8x57 just to name two cartridges that were not dangerous game guns, not to mention many pre-war Mausers in light caliber cartridges. My custom FN Mauser in 7x57 has the barrel band and even the pre-war style schnable forearm. I did at one time have a Mauser sporter that was definitely pre-war and of British design similar to the Rigby. It was made in some small shop, I forget whose but to this day I'm still kicking myself for ever letting it do. Methinks, especially in the lighter sporters it was just more a style than anything else. They do serve a purpose in the muzzle sits a lot lower when going in thickly forested and heavily tall brushed areas. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

December 12, 2017, 04:13 PM	#1
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Sling Band on Barrel a Problem? Took a look at the Ruger #1 .450 Marlin and saw the sling attached to the rifle via a band on the barrel. Would tension on the sling affect the point of impact? https://ruger.com/products/no1/specSheets/21313.html I realize several manufacturers do this, not just Ruger.

December 12, 2017, 05:41 PM	#2
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	If you use a "tight sling" to steady the rifle the point of impact will probably differ from your normal hold and sight in...it changes the barrel harmonics (vibrations) when you put pressure on the tube, somewhat similar to resting the barrel on something, instead of the fore end, when shooting from any position. How much change is dependent on the rifle, barrel, etc., etc., might not be enough to worry about if it's a relatively close shot.

December 12, 2017, 08:37 PM	#3
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	For the purpose of slinging the rifle over your shoulder, but shooting with the sling hanging loose, this should not affect anything. As JJ said, if you use a "loop" or "Hasty" support sling, it could remotely affect POI. But then again, the USMC teaches (or at least did) to use a loop sling for M16 and M4 qualification out to 500 yards. Those slings were about as taught as you can get without cutting off blood to your arm, and they were attached to the sling swivel hanging from the gas block of the M16. The gas block attached to the barrel, so same concept. I never observed a significant difference from using a loop sling to just firing from a rest. With this in mind, I say that it will make no difference as long as we're not talking about a pencil-thin barrel. It does not appear to be.

December 12, 2017, 08:40 PM	#4
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	The sling mount band on the barrel was primarily a "thing" of large caliber, short range rifles, often African game rifles. Once it was understood that it changed point of impact, most makers stopped using it on longer range accuracy rifles. The Ruger #1 is a traditional style single shot where the band fits in with the throw-back type of rifle it is.

December 12, 2017, 10:03 PM	#6
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Hard to say. I can pull a standard M1 Garand down 3 minutes when I sling in prone, tight. I don't get that with a heavier match profile barrel. That's with a heck of a lot of tension though. And I couldn't pull nearly that much on that Ruger #1 since I wouldn't be able to jam my hand up into the sling swivel.

December 14, 2017, 07:23 AM	#7
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"They are mounted on the barrel of heavy kickers to prevent the hand holding the forend from getting cut on the front sling attachment during recoil. As said those rifles aren't usually precision rifles anyway" Correct. Won't make much diff on a #1 since that much "sling tension" anywhere ahead of the action will likely alter POI or accuracy.

December 14, 2017, 03:24 PM	#8
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	When I took my hunters safety course many years ago the instructor had a deer rifle with a collometer in the barrel. He had you look through the scope at the collometer grid and then would put pressure on the barrel with his finger. You could see the shift in the aiming point with just a slight amount of pressure. That was with a standard sporter weight barrel. I am sure it would affect a heavier barrel of a #1 but not as much. It sounds like something you would have to check at the range.

December 14, 2017, 04:37 PM	#9
NMC_EXP Member Join Date: July 25, 2014 Location: Raton NM Posts: 19	How much it changes POI will depend entirely on sling tension and how stiff the barrel is. The only example I have is a Ruger 183 Series Mini 14. This is an early pencil barrel model. The forward sling swivel is on the barrel gas block. At 100 yards sling tension moved POI 2" down and 1" left.

December 14, 2017, 07:21 PM	#12
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	Many thanks for all the replies. I really do enjoy this site.