1851 Navy Colt brass frame repair

[joyrider51]

Is there a way to repair a brass frame, or can a steel frame be purchased by itself..

[Doc Hoy]

What is wrong with it?

Photos very helpful.

[Doc Hoy]

Welcome to the forum.

[Doc Hoy]

Difficult and expensive to buy a frame.

Not easy to find and when you find them they are expensive.

An alternative:

Part out the 51 you already have and go buy a new steel frame 51 from Cabelas.

[joyrider51]

I purchased a Wyatt Earp long barrel 1851 44 cal and notice markings on the frame where cylinder meet.. leaving imprints.. I was told that there is a repair for this.. thought seriously about purchasing a reg steel framed 44 cal Colt

[g.willikers]

Caused, maybe, by too heavy of loads, more suited to a steel framed gun.
If the frame is just marked and not damaged, just use brass frame loads.
Nothing wrong with buying another one in steel, though.
In case you want to be Two Gun Pete.

[Doc Hoy]

Purchased about 1975. It was called a Ballister at that time and was sold by (I think) EMF.

The marks in the frame are very likely imprints in the recoil ring from too hot loads.

I'll try looking up a photo to post for comparison.

Many folks will talk about fixes for this but my personal opinion is that it isn't worth the time/expense.

Buy yourself a Steel frame 51. Hope the barrels are interchangeable.

Sell the parts you have left over. I bet you could get almost enough for the parts to pay for the new steel frame 51. But you have to sell the part on eBay. Buyers on eBay are stupider than buyers on Gunbroker.

Here is the photo.

[Quentin2]

Sometimes you see new Pietta .44 cal "1851 Navy" brass frames (with arbor) on eBay for around $40. Probably from parted out new guns.

[Quentin2]

Just checked, a steel frame/arbor is for sale for $52.

[4V50 Gary]

Trying to repair the brass isn't worth the time or effort. First you don't know what composition of the brass you're dealing with. Some are better than other and ability to work on them varies. Second, you don't know how sound the casting is either.

Salvage the parts and get a steel frame.

[Doc Hoy]

Buy a steel frame from Cabelas.

Part out the one you have.

If you are lucky the twelve inch barrel you have will fit the new steel frame.

[enyaw]

I thunk I posted an answer to this brass frame peened problem here. Maybe it was elsewhere.

It was to find a narrow rimmed bushing size 7/8ths by 1 3/8ths in 14 gauge.
Hardware stores carry them usually.

File a little to get the bushing layed on the frame and surrounding the ring that gets peened from the cylinder. Cut it away where the hammer recess and the loading port are.
Solder the modified bushing to the brass frame.
Sink the nipples in a little deeper by the amount of the bushings thickness so caps won't chainfire on the new little steel backplate you just made to endure the force from the cylinder recoil and spread the force so nothing gets peened in anymore.

The bushing in place things are fixed up relatively easy and the gun will last a good long time shooting normal loads for the caliber.

If this is done to a new brass framer it'll last bout as long as a steel frame with normal loads.

People say the arbor can pull out and loosen. They are right but.....if a person knows when to drive the wedge a little deeper or not shoot the gun with any "loose" to it it'll last.

Banging a wedge in too tight can pull the arbor threads and loosen the gun.

Wedge gets bad replace it before shooting anymore. Cylinder gap widdens fix it before it gets worse.

Shooting any Colt type cap&baller when there's "loose" to it accelerates the wear and tear on ertain parts.

When the cylinder gap widdens with a brass framer stop shooting it and fix it and then go back to shooting.

Anyway....it doesn't cost anything really or it isn't really difficult to solder on a little backplate of steel and shorten the nipples or sink them in a little more.
Couple hours of easy fiddling around with a bushing,solder,and file and stone.

Now if the gun gets so bad it needs a new wide wedge made from tool steel or the arbor gets loose in the threads there's fixes for that too.

I've fixed the brass framers for guys with out a big income at the time. Come around depressed cause their old cap&baller was out of commision thinking it was ruined for sure. Thinking it would take a miracle by the tooth fairy to make it good again. I'd get out a bushing....cut it,file on it,solder it on the gun,shorten the nipples with a stone, and load er up and show the Hombre......all better and you can be happy again. ha ha ha

Some people get down right attached to their good ole brass framers. Like an old pet or something.

I have one like that. Fired thousands of normal(not reduced) loads thru er. Got it around 25 or more years ago. Still tight and as viable as my steel framers.

It's like a good ole Buddy like a pet or something. Of course I learned to put the steel backplate on the gun before ever shooting it. That's because my first cap&baller was a brass framer and....it fell apart because I didn't know to keep it maintained tight and shoot squib loads from it to get it to last longer.

The cylinder gap got large. The arbor got loose. the wedge got horse shoe shaped. It spit stuff all over the place when I shot it. I got mad and threw it away as far as I could throw it into the woods.
My brother retrieved it and cleaned it and used it as a wall hanger till tradin it off on another hunk of junk at a gun show.

That was one accurate cap&baller when it was new. I tested it shooting at sticks my brother threw in the river down the hill from his house. I cut every stick in half and then cut those in half as they floated down stream. Floated way down there. Must have been beginners luck because after that I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it for a long time. When I finally got good with it it fell apart.

It had me hooked though. Had to have another. Got a steel framer and never looked back. Of course I got another brass framer and still have it and ,like I said earlier, it is still firing and is tight and viable. I kinda got attched to that brass framer. Especially once I found out the little steel backplate made from a narrow rimmed bushing saved it's life and longevity.

I got rabbits and squirrels for supper with it. Dispatched wild wood chucks with it. Put down an old sick hound with it. Even carried it in my coat pocket for defense when living in a bad city. I pulled it once when a gent got his lil 25 auto out. He saw the long barrel and all,I'd guess, and muttered something bout a mother or something and turned and backed off. ha ha ha ha ha
A shiny brass framer with a long barrel would look kinda mean out on a dark street some dreary night. ha ha ha ha

[joyrider51]

Thanks to all, I do like the looks of the brass frame.. Enyaw thank you as I did read your post earlier and tried to find it.. Thank you.. Have already swapped and shot the longer barrel on the 36 cal steel frame.. works great except for clearance of burnt powder... will probably try to fix brass frame first then purchase a steel frame 44 and make a wall plaque..

[schnitt]

This is an old thread, but I decided to add my recent findings. I have a ~1992 Pietta brass 1851. It finally opened up on me.
I was playing around with heavy, 30gr loads. I checked the chrony'ed it at 850-950fps. I knew at those velocities, raw lead balls can lead foul pretty fast. I visually checked the cylinder to barrel gap every three shots. I noticed that the recoil suddenly felt much stronger and at that point, the barrel to cylinder gap opened up. I think this is due to barrel fouling which added to barrel friction. I took the gun apart and the barrel had become very badly fouled. So, now, what to do next?
I found a few articles that the gap is caused by the cylinder pin pulling out from the brass frame. If that is the case, then the pin would be holding the barrel away from the cylinder. A simple test is to pull the barrel wedge and push the barrel back towards the cylinder (assuming the pin does not bottom out in the barrel hole). I was not able to reduce the gap with the barrel wedge removed on my gun suggesting that the issue is not caused by the cylinder pin.
So then what is the cause of the gap? It takes a lot of force to pull a piece brass hard enough to stretch it. It is more likely that it was simply bent. After playing around with it for a while, I determined that the 90' angle was likely bent open a bit. I put the frame in the vice in such a way to bend it back. I could see the cylinder pin dip down as the brass bent due to the vice pressure.
I am happy to say that the frame was easily bent back and now the gap is gone. Its all fixed like new. So if you have a similar issue with your gun, then this may be an easy fix for you.
Some notes: The brass seems pretty soft on this 1992 Pietta. I think that keeping the loads down to 20gr and a clean barrel will be important
I had actually removed the cylinder pin by drilling out a lock pin from under the hammer and then unscrewing the cylinder pin. It is held in with an 8mm thread. Note that it would be very difficult to adjust since tightening this screw would rotate the notch at the end of the pin that the barrel wedge goes through and screw up the alignment. Even adding a steel thread insert would be tricky.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...1&d=1502858321

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...1&d=1502858321

[44 Dave]

The cylinder may also have driver it's self into the recoil shield.

[James K]

"Its all fixed like new."

Well, maybe. I suspect that the frame was bent, and you straightened it. But you will only be able to do that a few times before the frame loses its strength and crack. If you want to play with hot loads, buy a revolver with a steel frame, preferably a Remington type with a solid frame. Of forget C&B and get a strong modern revolver.

Jim

[4V50 Gary]

Concur with JamesK. You can only do so much before it's over. Keep the loads light on a brass frame.

[45 Dragoon]

I'll bet the arbor didn't bottom out in the barrel which means you couldn't "drive" the wedge in which means the cylinder was allowed to act as a slide hammer and the barrel to pull forward. With a "loose fit" wedge, the above will happen with each shot and more violently with a charge increase.
The most important setup for an open top revolver is the arbor fit. Correct fit with a tight bbl/cyl clearance (.0025") and a wedge driven in so that it will put tension between the two assemblies will allow you to shoot a steady diet of heavy loads without problems, even with a brass frame. It's all about maintaining the forces created when shooting, which the open top does well as long as it's set up properly. I set two brassers up this way specifically to test this (one was a dedicated fanner!) and no problems have occurred so far (it's been a couple of years now).
If the frame did bend, I'd probably start over (with steel this time!). And, make sure the arbor is fitted properly.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Hawg]

Even a Remington design will slam the cylinder into the recoil shield of a .36 hard enough to imprint it and will do it with 25 grains of powder.