Why do some people shoot better with 4inch vs 6 inch barrels.

L. Boscoe · January 16, 2022, 07:19 PM

I realize the majority says the longer barrel on your favorite pistol allows for a
more precise sight picture, and I understand the geometry just fine.
What I don't understand is why I, me personally, shoot a 4-inch barrel auto
pistol of the same make better at 25 yds or less than I do a 6 inch.
This applies to both 9mm and 45acp, although I
have much more 45 experience than 9mm.
I had an HK P9S 45 30 or more years ago, and I had much better bullseye scores with it than my heavily customized Gold Cup.
Recent experience was with CZ's and SAR's.

Might be eyesight? I am dominant left eye, dominant right hand, the scores years ago were one-handed, today, at 85, I shoot better two-handed.

HiBC · January 17, 2022, 01:02 AM

I don't know for sure.
I'll hazard a guess.

There is always the struggle the eyes have to focus at different distances.

It might be the shorter sight radius is a little easier for your eyes to focus a sight picture.

**Unclenick** · January 17, 2022, 10:48 AM

Assuming you focus on the front sight as you should, the rear sight will be less fuzzy with the shorter sight radius. One way to test whether or not this is the cause is to tape an aperture to your shooting glasses to increase the depth of field of your focus. A way to make a simple one is to identify the spot you look through on the glasses, then take some black vinyl electrical tape and overlap three pieces in a triangle that leave a small triangular hole in the center. You can also overlap four pieces to leave a small square in the middle. Basically, you are making a pinhole camera viewport. For outdoors, something about a millimeter in size should work. See if that picks up your scores with the longer sight radius guns.

The other thing that can happen is psychological. The longer sight radius gives you finer alignment, but that also means every little jitter in your hold shows up more clearly in the sight picture, and that can increase the urge to "ambush the 10-ring". If this is happening, the groups from the longer sight radius gun will tend to open diagonally down and away from the palm of your gun hand (low and left for right-hand hold and vice versa). Coming to understand jitter and movement is just normal noise from random muscle fiber firing and should be accepted and allowed to happen and not change how I operate the trigger was one of the hardest things for me to learn. But I got my first high master scores once I did that and let go of trying to control it to the nth degree.

pete2 · January 17, 2022, 01:16 PM

I'll go with #2 explanation. I have 2 High Standard pistols, one 5" and a 7-1/2". I'm a little better with the long gun at slow fire but it doesn't work for me rapid fire, I can't get it to settle down, see every little wiggle.

Dave P · January 17, 2022, 02:26 PM

My experience - short people shoot short guns better. Ha Ha

Mike38 · January 17, 2022, 07:36 PM

Some precision shooters claim a shorter barrel on a pistol is a bit more accurate because of "dwell time". Dwell time is the time elapsed from ignition to when the bullet exits the barrel. Dwell time is a window for error, and can be minimized with a faster bullet or a shorter barrel. I have a couple target pistols that I use in Precision Pistol competition. One has a 6 inch barrel, the other has a 4.125 inch barrel. The pistol with the shorter barrel actually has a longer sight radius. I shoot the shorter one better for some reason. Could be dwell time, could be balance, could be the longer sight radius, could be a number of things.

L. Boscoe · January 17, 2022, 08:21 PM

thanks for all the replies.
I think unclenic has a good read. My errors are usually down and to the left.
When I was active 30 or more years ago, I was having shots line up vertically
all in a vertical line. My instructor, who was an army instructor, said to get a sight picture and then close your eyes while you squeezed the trigger-voila!
solved that problem.
The decades have had their effect, that and I have had Covid twice, even after all three shots.,
So a man's gotta know his limitations and still have fun.

stuckinthe60s · January 20, 2022, 08:29 AM

weight..........

gwpercle · January 28, 2022, 06:29 PM

In my case it was balance .
When buying my first match 22 LR pistol I got the Ruger MKI Target with 6 7/8" tapered barrel ...after hearing my whole life the longer barrel would be more accurate ...
Well that ain't necessarily True ... I shot much better scores with my friends Ruger MKI Target w/ 5" Bull barrel ...Every Time !
The tapered 6 7/8" front sight liked to wobble all around ... the front sight on that heavy bull barrel just hung out there rock steady...seems like there's this little thing called balance that comes into play ... the heavy barreled handguns always shoot better scores for me because of the balance .
My next purchase was a model 41 S&W with 3 different Target Barrels ... I shot the heavy 5" barrel the best ... the longer , lighter longer target barrel liked to wobble around too much also .
Gary

L. Boscoe · January 28, 2022, 09:48 PM

You remind me that I had a SW 52, which I could never shoot well. Same idea
applies here-my 4in barrel HK P9S was better in my hand.

**JohnKSa** · January 29, 2022, 06:02 PM

1. Variation in individual guns. Some guns are more accurate than others. I used to have a Ruger Super Redhawk with the long barrel (over 9") on it that just wouldn't shoot well no matter what I did. I now have one with the 7.5" barrel and it shoots much better. It's not the barrel length that makes the difference though--the first one just wasn't very accurate.

2. User fit to various guns. Some people just do well with certain guns and not so well with others. I have a CZ-75 that is extremely accurate, but its previous owner just didn't mesh well with it and so he never got good results on target. Nothing to do with his capability or the gun, it just didn't fit him well so he didn't shoot it well. The weight and balance of the gun can play into this also. A person with limited hand/shoulder strength may find that a heavier gun (as longer-barreled guns tend to be) may be difficult for them to hold steady or they may tire quickly when shooting it.

3. The explanations about eye focus limitations and apparent wobble are good.

Rob228 · February 5, 2022, 12:27 PM

I recall a shooting clinic I went to put on by the Army AMU about 25 years ago when I was 13 or so. It was all 3 position small bore, and I recall that one woman had a rifle with maybe 12" of actual barrel but there was a good 8" past the end of the barrel with for lack of a better term a sleeve of aluminum extending past it. The logic was better balance but still have the longer sight plane. I'm certain someone here can translate that into better terms.

I do know that when I had a 6" 586 I wished I had bought the 4", for all of the reasons mentioned above; slightest movement and you loose sight picture, and the balance was just not that great.

**JohnKSa** · February 5, 2022, 11:28 PM

Quote:

...I recall that one woman had a rifle with maybe 12" of actual barrel but there was a good 8" past the end of the barrel with for lack of a better term a sleeve of aluminum extending past it. The logic was better balance but still have the longer sight plane. I'm certain someone here can translate that into better terms.

Those are called bloop tubes. Originally it was about extending the sight radius on iron-sighted guns, but some folks also claim they have other benefits and you may see them on scoped guns these days.

Bart B. · February 17, 2022, 02:21 PM

Those tubes with the front sight as far forward as possible:

* increase sight radius to make the front sight easier to focus on.

* decrease the point of impact change per rear sight click.

* change the muzzle axis vertical angle to line of sight when the bullet leaves.

MarkCO · February 17, 2022, 02:46 PM

It may have nothing to do with sight radius or sight picture.

While weight, and or balance are certainly part of the puzzle, it also is about timing as much as anything.

Change the load, heavier bullet, lighter bullet. Lighter and then heavier recoil spring. It will affect the timing of the system. Your grip, stance, and imperfections of technique all add up to changing things. Recoil control alone, with a 33% longer barrel, will alter the accuracy if you are not fundamentally perfect. Pro shooters who shoot auto-loaders, regardless of discipline, work on the load, timing, components. Even different powders will have a big enough affect to alter the system and affect performance.

The pistol is the hardest platform to shoot well. They require the most maintenance of fundamentals to maintain proficiency. Many of the best long range shooters in the world absolutely suck at pistol shooting...most of it is lack of practice.

HiBC · February 17, 2022, 03:33 PM

My mentor for building traditional muzzle loaders taught me this:

To locate the best location for the rear sight dovetail on your own rifle,(front sight already there)
Slide the rear sight forward till you get a focused sight picture.

Even if you end up with a relatively short sight radius.

I've noticed at muzzle loader shoots,some of the guys who split balls on ax heads might have 32 inch barrels with a 14 inch sight radius. I didn't measure,but I noticed.

Its my opinion that with open sights,to be able to see the light gap on each side of the front sight blade and the elevation alignment clearly pays off.

No,I can't say I know the answer to the OP's question. But IMO, for his eyes, it might well be his ability to achieve focus with the 4 inch barrel is better than with the 6 in barrel.

If you can't clearly see your sights,you can't precisely align your sights.

Its one thing to check out.

Bart B. · February 17, 2022, 07:51 PM

Anschutz put those tubes on some 3 position match rifles using 22 rimfire ammo. The rifled barrel was around 15 inches long so bullet barrel time was shorter than traditional lengths. Sight radius was long enough for best accuracy.

Rob228 · February 18, 2022, 08:34 PM

Quote:

The rifled barrel was around 15 inches long so bullet barrel time was shorter than traditional lengths. Sight radius was long enough for best accuracy.

I didn't even think about barrel time; makes a ton of sense for 3 position shooting to keep it as short as possible, one less thing to worry about if your follow through isn't perfect.

L. Boscoe · February 18, 2022, 10:01 PM

I think HiBC is on the right track. One thing that is not as good as it was is
eyesight. I put red dots on two guns, and oh boy does that make a difference-for one thing, you only have to focus on one thing, the dot!
That and the fact that lining up front and rear adds complexity to the job, I think the focus is THE ANSWER!

AzShooter · February 18, 2022, 10:27 PM

I shoot best with my 6 7/8th Ruger Mark III Hunter than I do with my 5.5 inch Mark IV or my Mark IV 22/45 light with is shorter still.

Once you learn not to worry about the wobble the accuracy gets better therefore for Bullseye I prefer my Hunter.

For speed shooting I like my Lite. Short sight radius and very light for faster transitions from target to target.

At 70 a lighter gun is an advantage to me. I hardly ever shoot my 5.5 inch because of the weight, and my 10 inch can only be shot from a bench in my case. Even though their sights are longer they don't show a benefit to me.

Weight has a lot to do with it.

Drm50 · March 5, 2022, 04:03 PM

When I started as teenager wouldn’t look at a 4” gun. Bought the longest barrel available in the model. Have bucket full of S&W 8 3/8” guns, N & Ks. Then getting a few 6.5” guns on trades, shot them as good as 8 3/8”. Stopped going out of my way to get the long ones.

January 16, 2022, 07:19 PM	#1
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 285	Why do some people shoot better with 4inch vs 6 inch barrels. I realize the majority says the longer barrel on your favorite pistol allows for a more precise sight picture, and I understand the geometry just fine. What I don't understand is why I, me personally, shoot a 4-inch barrel auto pistol of the same make better at 25 yds or less than I do a 6 inch. This applies to both 9mm and 45acp, although I have much more 45 experience than 9mm. I had an HK P9S 45 30 or more years ago, and I had much better bullseye scores with it than my heavily customized Gold Cup. Recent experience was with CZ's and SAR's. Might be eyesight? I am dominant left eye, dominant right hand, the scores years ago were one-handed, today, at 85, I shoot better two-handed.

January 17, 2022, 10:48 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Assuming you focus on the front sight as you should, the rear sight will be less fuzzy with the shorter sight radius. One way to test whether or not this is the cause is to tape an aperture to your shooting glasses to increase the depth of field of your focus. A way to make a simple one is to identify the spot you look through on the glasses, then take some black vinyl electrical tape and overlap three pieces in a triangle that leave a small triangular hole in the center. You can also overlap four pieces to leave a small square in the middle. Basically, you are making a pinhole camera viewport. For outdoors, something about a millimeter in size should work. See if that picks up your scores with the longer sight radius guns. The other thing that can happen is psychological. The longer sight radius gives you finer alignment, but that also means every little jitter in your hold shows up more clearly in the sight picture, and that can increase the urge to "ambush the 10-ring". If this is happening, the groups from the longer sight radius gun will tend to open diagonally down and away from the palm of your gun hand (low and left for right-hand hold and vice versa). Coming to understand jitter and movement is just normal noise from random muscle fiber firing and should be accepted and allowed to happen and not change how I operate the trigger was one of the hardest things for me to learn. But I got my first high master scores once I did that and let go of trying to control it to the nth degree. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 17, 2022, 02:26 PM	#5
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	My experience - short people shoot short guns better. Ha Ha __________________ I think this country is screwed.

January 17, 2022, 08:21 PM	#7
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 285	Why do some people shoot better with 4inch vs 6 inch barrels thanks for all the replies. I think unclenic has a good read. My errors are usually down and to the left. When I was active 30 or more years ago, I was having shots line up vertically all in a vertical line. My instructor, who was an army instructor, said to get a sight picture and then close your eyes while you squeezed the trigger-voila! solved that problem. The decades have had their effect, that and I have had Covid twice, even after all three shots., So a man's gotta know his limitations and still have fun.

January 20, 2022, 08:29 AM	#8
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	weight.......... __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

January 17, 2022, 01:02 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I don't know for sure. I'll hazard a guess. There is always the struggle the eyes have to focus at different distances. It might be the shorter sight radius is a little easier for your eyes to focus a sight picture.

January 17, 2022, 01:16 PM	#4
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I'll go with #2 explanation. I have 2 High Standard pistols, one 5" and a 7-1/2". I'm a little better with the long gun at slow fire but it doesn't work for me rapid fire, I can't get it to settle down, see every little wiggle.

January 17, 2022, 07:36 PM	#6
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Some precision shooters claim a shorter barrel on a pistol is a bit more accurate because of "dwell time". Dwell time is the time elapsed from ignition to when the bullet exits the barrel. Dwell time is a window for error, and can be minimized with a faster bullet or a shorter barrel. I have a couple target pistols that I use in Precision Pistol competition. One has a 6 inch barrel, the other has a 4.125 inch barrel. The pistol with the shorter barrel actually has a longer sight radius. I shoot the shorter one better for some reason. Could be dwell time, could be balance, could be the longer sight radius, could be a number of things.

January 28, 2022, 06:29 PM	#9
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	In my case it was balance . When buying my first match 22 LR pistol I got the Ruger MKI Target with 6 7/8" tapered barrel ...after hearing my whole life the longer barrel would be more accurate ... Well that ain't necessarily True ... I shot much better scores with my friends Ruger MKI Target w/ 5" Bull barrel ...Every Time ! The tapered 6 7/8" front sight liked to wobble all around ... the front sight on that heavy bull barrel just hung out there rock steady...seems like there's this little thing called balance that comes into play ... the heavy barreled handguns always shoot better scores for me because of the balance . My next purchase was a model 41 S&W with 3 different Target Barrels ... I shot the heavy 5" barrel the best ... the longer , lighter longer target barrel liked to wobble around too much also . Gary

January 28, 2022, 09:48 PM	#10
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 285	Why do some people shoot better with 4 inch vs 6 in barrels You remind me that I had a SW 52, which I could never shoot well. Same idea applies here-my 4in barrel HK P9S was better in my hand.

January 29, 2022, 06:02 PM	#11
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	1. Variation in individual guns. Some guns are more accurate than others. I used to have a Ruger Super Redhawk with the long barrel (over 9") on it that just wouldn't shoot well no matter what I did. I now have one with the 7.5" barrel and it shoots much better. It's not the barrel length that makes the difference though--the first one just wasn't very accurate. 2. User fit to various guns. Some people just do well with certain guns and not so well with others. I have a CZ-75 that is extremely accurate, but its previous owner just didn't mesh well with it and so he never got good results on target. Nothing to do with his capability or the gun, it just didn't fit him well so he didn't shoot it well. The weight and balance of the gun can play into this also. A person with limited hand/shoulder strength may find that a heavier gun (as longer-barreled guns tend to be) may be difficult for them to hold steady or they may tire quickly when shooting it. 3. The explanations about eye focus limitations and apparent wobble are good. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 5, 2022, 12:27 PM	#12
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	I recall a shooting clinic I went to put on by the Army AMU about 25 years ago when I was 13 or so. It was all 3 position small bore, and I recall that one woman had a rifle with maybe 12" of actual barrel but there was a good 8" past the end of the barrel with for lack of a better term a sleeve of aluminum extending past it. The logic was better balance but still have the longer sight plane. I'm certain someone here can translate that into better terms. I do know that when I had a 6" 586 I wished I had bought the 4", for all of the reasons mentioned above; slightest movement and you loose sight picture, and the balance was just not that great.

February 17, 2022, 02:21 PM	#14
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Those tubes with the front sight as far forward as possible: * increase sight radius to make the front sight easier to focus on. * decrease the point of impact change per rear sight click. * change the muzzle axis vertical angle to line of sight when the bullet leaves. Last edited by Bart B.; February 17, 2022 at 04:06 PM.

February 17, 2022, 02:46 PM	#15
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	It may have nothing to do with sight radius or sight picture. While weight, and or balance are certainly part of the puzzle, it also is about timing as much as anything. Change the load, heavier bullet, lighter bullet. Lighter and then heavier recoil spring. It will affect the timing of the system. Your grip, stance, and imperfections of technique all add up to changing things. Recoil control alone, with a 33% longer barrel, will alter the accuracy if you are not fundamentally perfect. Pro shooters who shoot auto-loaders, regardless of discipline, work on the load, timing, components. Even different powders will have a big enough affect to alter the system and affect performance. The pistol is the hardest platform to shoot well. They require the most maintenance of fundamentals to maintain proficiency. Many of the best long range shooters in the world absolutely suck at pistol shooting...most of it is lack of practice. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us Last edited by MarkCO; February 17, 2022 at 03:42 PM.

February 17, 2022, 03:33 PM	#16
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	My mentor for building traditional muzzle loaders taught me this: To locate the best location for the rear sight dovetail on your own rifle,(front sight already there) Slide the rear sight forward till you get a focused sight picture. Even if you end up with a relatively short sight radius. I've noticed at muzzle loader shoots,some of the guys who split balls on ax heads might have 32 inch barrels with a 14 inch sight radius. I didn't measure,but I noticed. Its my opinion that with open sights,to be able to see the light gap on each side of the front sight blade and the elevation alignment clearly pays off. No,I can't say I know the answer to the OP's question. But IMO, for his eyes, it might well be his ability to achieve focus with the 4 inch barrel is better than with the 6 in barrel. If you can't clearly see your sights,you can't precisely align your sights. Its one thing to check out.

February 17, 2022, 07:51 PM	#17
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Anschutz put those tubes on some 3 position match rifles using 22 rimfire ammo. The rifled barrel was around 15 inches long so bullet barrel time was shorter than traditional lengths. Sight radius was long enough for best accuracy.

February 18, 2022, 10:01 PM	#19
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 285	Why do some people shoot better with 4 in vs 6 inch barrels I think HiBC is on the right track. One thing that is not as good as it was is eyesight. I put red dots on two guns, and oh boy does that make a difference-for one thing, you only have to focus on one thing, the dot! That and the fact that lining up front and rear adds complexity to the job, I think the focus is THE ANSWER!

February 18, 2022, 10:27 PM	#20
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	I shoot best with my 6 7/8th Ruger Mark III Hunter than I do with my 5.5 inch Mark IV or my Mark IV 22/45 light with is shorter still. Once you learn not to worry about the wobble the accuracy gets better therefore for Bullseye I prefer my Hunter. For speed shooting I like my Lite. Short sight radius and very light for faster transitions from target to target. At 70 a lighter gun is an advantage to me. I hardly ever shoot my 5.5 inch because of the weight, and my 10 inch can only be shot from a bench in my case. Even though their sights are longer they don't show a benefit to me. Weight has a lot to do with it.

March 5, 2022, 04:03 PM	#21
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,377	When I started as teenager wouldn’t look at a 4” gun. Bought the longest barrel available in the model. Have bucket full of S&W 8 3/8” guns, N & Ks. Then getting a few 6.5” guns on trades, shot them as good as 8 3/8”. Stopped going out of my way to get the long ones.

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