Finnish 7.62 v. Soviet 7.62

**4V50 Gary** · July 15, 2021, 08:54 PM

Why is the Finnish cartridge called the 7.62x53R and the Soviet (parent cartridge) 7.62x54R?

**Mike Irwin** · July 16, 2021, 06:33 AM

Because it's not the same cartridge as the 7.62x54R Russian round. Case dimensions in a number of areas are different (the Finnish case is slightly shorter) and the standard bullet is very slightly smaller in diameter.

Since case head and rim thickness are the same, I THINK that you can shoot either round in a rifle chambered for the other.

It's a situation not unlike the 7.62mm Tokarev vs. 7.63 Mauser. The rounds are VERY similar in dimension, but not identical, but in most cases they will interchange with no problems.

ernie8 · July 16, 2021, 08:16 AM

Another internet myth , started by people who did not understand what they read . Friends in Finland do not think this . The cases are the same , within normal military tolerance . Just look at real ammo . I have a good amount of both . About half of the Finn used rifles and ammo was captured USSR . The case is right at 53.5 , so it is rounded up or down . Some civilian club rifles had .308 ish bores and used .308 match bullets and were later used in war . USSR WWII era ammo was made with a .3098 dia bullet , not .311 as thought by some . Most militaries have slight variations in different loads of their service ammo .

**Mike Irwin** · July 16, 2021, 10:54 AM

Interesting.

C.I.P designates them as different cartridges with similar, but not identical, dimensions.

ernie8 · July 21, 2021, 09:23 AM

Most ammo made for military calibers , but by different makers or countries have similar but not identical dimensions . Just compare WWI Brit .303 to US made .303 . German 7.92 x 57 mm was made with two different neck dia and three different bullet dia ,but all will fire in any German military rifle Gew-98 and up . Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .

BCR1 · July 22, 2021, 06:13 AM

[QUOTE=ernie8;6877837 Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .[/QUOTE]
I have both. What are the differences so I can compare?

Bill

**Mike Irwin** · July 22, 2021, 07:59 AM

I'm aware of that. But...

C.I.P doesn't consider American vs British made .303 to be different cartridges.

C.I.P consideres the 7.62 Finnish and 7.62 Russian to be different cartridges, and lists them as such.

The same as the previous example I provided, 7.62 Tokarev vs 7.63 Mauser. C.I.P lists them as separate, distinct cartridges.

C.I.P is the European version of SAAMI. I'm more than willing to accept their determinations.

ernie8 · July 22, 2021, 02:56 PM

Rom to Yugo 8mm . The Yugo is a .323 dia bullet , the Rom is .321 . The Rom is a little narrower at the shoulder . There is more difference between US .303 and British WWI ammo than there is between some Russian and Finn 7.62x54 . 7.62 T and 7.63 M are different cartridges , for different weapons . Just because you could fit a .357 mag in an old 38 S&W does not mean you should shoot it . That is why they have different names . On the other hand Finn and Russian 7.62x54 ammo both shoot in the Mosin rifles with no problems . The Finn's fought two wars with that ammo without worrying about what someone at CIP thought . CIP is also confused and wrong about some German 8mm ammo also .

July 15, 2021, 08:54 PM	#1
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Finnish 7.62 v. Soviet 7.62 Why is the Finnish cartridge called the 7.62x53R and the Soviet (parent cartridge) 7.62x54R? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 16, 2021, 06:33 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Because it's not the same cartridge as the 7.62x54R Russian round. Case dimensions in a number of areas are different (the Finnish case is slightly shorter) and the standard bullet is very slightly smaller in diameter. Since case head and rim thickness are the same, I THINK that you can shoot either round in a rifle chambered for the other. It's a situation not unlike the 7.62mm Tokarev vs. 7.63 Mauser. The rounds are VERY similar in dimension, but not identical, but in most cases they will interchange with no problems. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 16, 2021, 10:54 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Interesting. C.I.P designates them as different cartridges with similar, but not identical, dimensions. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 22, 2021, 07:59 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	I'm aware of that. But... C.I.P doesn't consider American vs British made .303 to be different cartridges. C.I.P consideres the 7.62 Finnish and 7.62 Russian to be different cartridges, and lists them as such. The same as the previous example I provided, 7.62 Tokarev vs 7.63 Mauser. C.I.P lists them as separate, distinct cartridges. C.I.P is the European version of SAAMI. I'm more than willing to accept their determinations. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 16, 2021, 08:16 AM	#3
ernie8 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2018 Posts: 217	Another internet myth , started by people who did not understand what they read . Friends in Finland do not think this . The cases are the same , within normal military tolerance . Just look at real ammo . I have a good amount of both . About half of the Finn used rifles and ammo was captured USSR . The case is right at 53.5 , so it is rounded up or down . Some civilian club rifles had .308 ish bores and used .308 match bullets and were later used in war . USSR WWII era ammo was made with a .3098 dia bullet , not .311 as thought by some . Most militaries have slight variations in different loads of their service ammo .

July 21, 2021, 09:23 AM	#5
ernie8 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2018 Posts: 217	Most ammo made for military calibers , but by different makers or countries have similar but not identical dimensions . Just compare WWI Brit .303 to US made .303 . German 7.92 x 57 mm was made with two different neck dia and three different bullet dia ,but all will fire in any German military rifle Gew-98 and up . Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .

July 22, 2021, 06:13 AM	#6
BCR1 member Join Date: January 25, 2021 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 108	[QUOTE=ernie8;6877837 Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .[/QUOTE] I have both. What are the differences so I can compare? Bill

July 22, 2021, 02:56 PM	#8
ernie8 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2018 Posts: 217	Rom to Yugo 8mm . The Yugo is a .323 dia bullet , the Rom is .321 . The Rom is a little narrower at the shoulder . There is more difference between US .303 and British WWI ammo than there is between some Russian and Finn 7.62x54 . 7.62 T and 7.63 M are different cartridges , for different weapons . Just because you could fit a .357 mag in an old 38 S&W does not mean you should shoot it . That is why they have different names . On the other hand Finn and Russian 7.62x54 ammo both shoot in the Mosin rifles with no problems . The Finn's fought two wars with that ammo without worrying about what someone at CIP thought . CIP is also confused and wrong about some German 8mm ammo also .