1919A4 Update

The Rock · March 2, 2000, 11:35 PM

My kit from Sarco arrived UPS Tuesday. I have now ordered the other sideplate I need. I guy that I talked to at Socomm Mfg, Ernie, gave me the skinny on modifing the bolt and trip to start the conversion to Semi-only. He will also send me some plans to make a disconnect, the final piece of the semi puzzle. He said it was pretty easy. I'll update with pics as it comes along.

TR

Outlaw1 · March 3, 2000, 12:18 AM

I was just wonderin' how you were coming along on your A4 project.
I just got pics of mine developed today, so I'll post a link to my website as soon as I get one posted on it.
Weren't you going with the .308 conversion?
If you get the urge to get the M6 Flash hider, let me know and I'll tell you how to get the gun to cycle right using the slightly lower powered 7.62.

Good Luck!

------------------
We ARE the Militia!

The Rock · March 4, 2000, 11:55 AM

It would be great to see some pics. I thought you mentioned that yours was FA. I expect the sideplate this week and hope to have everything done except for the disconnect in about 2-3 weeks. Is yours riveted? Ernie said that he would send me some button head allen screws, which is what he uses in his conversions.

TR

Outlaw1 · March 4, 2000, 09:24 PM

Yeah, mines riveted, but I'm using the button-head allen screws/bolts for the scopemount. Those things really look like they go with the gun.
I got one pic posted on my website, but it's not a very good one. I've got some better ones I'll get up soon.
On my site, click the "About" button on the left, then scroll down and click the "More/Funstuff" button under the racecar. http://www.osonet.com/Saunders-Art

[This message has been edited by Outlaw1 (edited March 04, 2000).]

The Rock · March 7, 2000, 08:25 PM

From earlier postings, I assume yours is a FA. Have you got any close up pics on the top cover and it's hold open device? If your's is a SA, then a pic of a disconnector would be great. (Or what ever you use to make it SA only).

TR

Outlaw1 · March 7, 2000, 11:57 PM

As of yet I have no pics of the top cover hold-open, but it's basically just a cammed fitting that uses spring tension. Here are some diagrams: http://www.impactguns.com/library/1919/1919.htm
Actually mine IS a SA, but here's the good part. It has a VERY light trigger pull, and I have timed mine with a stopwatch at 120 rounds in 15.2 seconds, which is right at 8 rds per second! Not quite the rate of a FA, but with the "cannon-like" sound a 1919 makes, it sure gets the neighbor's attention!

The secret to SA in mine is in the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the sear drops and releases the firing pin just like a FA, but the design of the SA sear makes it "catch" the trigger each time the bolt moves forward. The FA sear doesn't "catch" the trigger until the trigger is released.
All the rest of the parts are (or look like) regular GI parts.

The Rock · March 8, 2000, 09:31 PM

Oh.

What does your sear look like? Mine seems to be standard. The bottom where the trigger goes is a C shape with the open end of the C pointing toward the bottom of the sear. I was advised to grind the sear's guide wings/rails down and weld its guide on the bolt a bit up from the bolt hole. I assume this was to reduce travel distance on the sear, making in SA only, but the guy also stated that it also needed a disconnector. Where did you get yours from?

TR

Outlaw1 · March 9, 2000, 12:59 AM

Ok, I completely stripped that sucker down and closely inspected each part.
The TRIGGER, and the sear are not G.I. parts!
The forward area of the trigger is spring loaded so it slides back and forth, so really the trigger IS the disconnector. There is also a trigger return spring which is not a GI part.
The trigger engagement area of the sear is designed so the trigger won't re-engage the sear unless it's released after each shot.
I've got the TNW built gun, and must say they did one helluva job. Also, I don't think they did as many modifications as other companies that build the SA models.

The Rock · March 9, 2000, 06:06 PM

Okay. It sounds to me, that the trigger assembly has a spring that pushes the forward end of the trigger up, in turn, pushing trigger back down.
My thinking on how I was gonna do it:
The part of the trigger that trips the sear has a inverted ramp on either side. It points toward the back of the weapon. I would assume in the FA gun, when you hold the trigger down, that ramp catches the sear and trips it again. I'm thinking it that if I modify that part to have just flat wings, then when the bolt and sear come forward, the sear can't pick up the trigger, if it is held down, so no firing and thus, no firing unless the trigger is released. I made a sketch of it at www.2loose.com/1919a4.jpg . What do you think?

TR

Outlaw1 · March 9, 2000, 09:46 PM

Hmmmm. The "wings" are actually angled like the GI trigger.
Check out the line drawing on my website at the same place the other pic was, and we'll see if we can't figger' this out.

The Rock · March 9, 2000, 10:34 PM

Looking at the drawing, I saw the difference in the our sears. Mine is a full GI issue, and on yours, the top, which holds the sear spring, has been grinded to be skinnier. Also, from the drawing, I can't see what the trigger could grip on that would let it pull the sear. The last thing is that the guide rails on the bottom of you sear have been cut off. The trigger is still mistifing me. The guy at Socomm said something about cutting the trigger assembly in half, but it didn't make a whole bunch of sense then, and doesn't now. I should have a drawing up at my website shortly about what I was going to do. Filename is 1919a4b.jpg.
Thanks!
TR

Outlaw1 · March 11, 2000, 04:50 PM

I don't see any problems with the trigger return spring idea, just be sure it's not in the way of the barrel extension when it's locked in the lock-frame.

I think the biggest problem's goin' to be figuring out how to turn the forward section of the trigger into a disconnector.

The Rock · March 11, 2000, 06:36 PM

I'm gonna contact a manufacturer of the rifle to see what the possibility of having my trigger assembly converted. That may be my best solution.

TR

Outlaw1 · March 11, 2000, 07:54 PM

Sounds like the way to go. Still, I'll bet you're gettin' off cheaper than buyin' one already built.

------------------
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
-Ronald Reagan

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March 2, 2000, 11:35 PM	#1
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	My kit from Sarco arrived UPS Tuesday. I have now ordered the other sideplate I need. I guy that I talked to at Socomm Mfg, Ernie, gave me the skinny on modifing the bolt and trip to start the conversion to Semi-only. He will also send me some plans to make a disconnect, the final piece of the semi puzzle. He said it was pretty easy. I'll update with pics as it comes along. TR

March 3, 2000, 12:18 AM	#2
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	I was just wonderin' how you were coming along on your A4 project. I just got pics of mine developed today, so I'll post a link to my website as soon as I get one posted on it. Weren't you going with the .308 conversion? If you get the urge to get the M6 Flash hider, let me know and I'll tell you how to get the gun to cycle right using the slightly lower powered 7.62. Good Luck! ------------------ We ARE the Militia!

March 4, 2000, 11:55 AM	#3
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	It would be great to see some pics. I thought you mentioned that yours was FA. I expect the sideplate this week and hope to have everything done except for the disconnect in about 2-3 weeks. Is yours riveted? Ernie said that he would send me some button head allen screws, which is what he uses in his conversions. TR

March 4, 2000, 09:24 PM	#4
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	Yeah, mines riveted, but I'm using the button-head allen screws/bolts for the scopemount. Those things really look like they go with the gun. I got one pic posted on my website, but it's not a very good one. I've got some better ones I'll get up soon. On my site, click the "About" button on the left, then scroll down and click the "More/Funstuff" button under the racecar. http://www.osonet.com/Saunders-Art [This message has been edited by Outlaw1 (edited March 04, 2000).]

March 7, 2000, 08:25 PM	#5
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	From earlier postings, I assume yours is a FA. Have you got any close up pics on the top cover and it's hold open device? If your's is a SA, then a pic of a disconnector would be great. (Or what ever you use to make it SA only). TR

March 7, 2000, 11:57 PM	#6
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	As of yet I have no pics of the top cover hold-open, but it's basically just a cammed fitting that uses spring tension. Here are some diagrams: http://www.impactguns.com/library/1919/1919.htm Actually mine IS a SA, but here's the good part. It has a VERY light trigger pull, and I have timed mine with a stopwatch at 120 rounds in 15.2 seconds, which is right at 8 rds per second! Not quite the rate of a FA, but with the "cannon-like" sound a 1919 makes, it sure gets the neighbor's attention! The secret to SA in mine is in the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the sear drops and releases the firing pin just like a FA, but the design of the SA sear makes it "catch" the trigger each time the bolt moves forward. The FA sear doesn't "catch" the trigger until the trigger is released. All the rest of the parts are (or look like) regular GI parts.

March 8, 2000, 09:31 PM	#7
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	Oh. What does your sear look like? Mine seems to be standard. The bottom where the trigger goes is a C shape with the open end of the C pointing toward the bottom of the sear. I was advised to grind the sear's guide wings/rails down and weld its guide on the bolt a bit up from the bolt hole. I assume this was to reduce travel distance on the sear, making in SA only, but the guy also stated that it also needed a disconnector. Where did you get yours from? TR

March 9, 2000, 12:59 AM	#8
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	Ok, I completely stripped that sucker down and closely inspected each part. The TRIGGER, and the sear are not G.I. parts! The forward area of the trigger is spring loaded so it slides back and forth, so really the trigger IS the disconnector. There is also a trigger return spring which is not a GI part. The trigger engagement area of the sear is designed so the trigger won't re-engage the sear unless it's released after each shot. I've got the TNW built gun, and must say they did one helluva job. Also, I don't think they did as many modifications as other companies that build the SA models.

March 9, 2000, 06:06 PM	#9
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	Okay. It sounds to me, that the trigger assembly has a spring that pushes the forward end of the trigger up, in turn, pushing trigger back down. My thinking on how I was gonna do it: The part of the trigger that trips the sear has a inverted ramp on either side. It points toward the back of the weapon. I would assume in the FA gun, when you hold the trigger down, that ramp catches the sear and trips it again. I'm thinking it that if I modify that part to have just flat wings, then when the bolt and sear come forward, the sear can't pick up the trigger, if it is held down, so no firing and thus, no firing unless the trigger is released. I made a sketch of it at www.2loose.com/1919a4.jpg . What do you think? TR

March 9, 2000, 09:46 PM	#10
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	Hmmmm. The "wings" are actually angled like the GI trigger. Check out the line drawing on my website at the same place the other pic was, and we'll see if we can't figger' this out.

March 9, 2000, 10:34 PM	#11
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	Looking at the drawing, I saw the difference in the our sears. Mine is a full GI issue, and on yours, the top, which holds the sear spring, has been grinded to be skinnier. Also, from the drawing, I can't see what the trigger could grip on that would let it pull the sear. The last thing is that the guide rails on the bottom of you sear have been cut off. The trigger is still mistifing me. The guy at Socomm said something about cutting the trigger assembly in half, but it didn't make a whole bunch of sense then, and doesn't now. I should have a drawing up at my website shortly about what I was going to do. Filename is 1919a4b.jpg. Thanks! TR

March 11, 2000, 04:50 PM	#12
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	I don't see any problems with the trigger return spring idea, just be sure it's not in the way of the barrel extension when it's locked in the lock-frame. I think the biggest problem's goin' to be figuring out how to turn the forward section of the trigger into a disconnector.

March 11, 2000, 06:36 PM	#13
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	I'm gonna contact a manufacturer of the rifle to see what the possibility of having my trigger assembly converted. That may be my best solution. TR

March 11, 2000, 07:54 PM	#14
Outlaw1 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 1999 Posts: 314	Sounds like the way to go. Still, I'll bet you're gettin' off cheaper than buyin' one already built. ------------------ "Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan