Reloading .40 problems

[dalmorloson]

Hi guys. I just started reloading (literally 1st time) and got a good deal on 2500 rounds of 180 grain lead. I have done a lot of reading and research before attempting this and have read about all of the probs with "glocked" .40 brass, high pressures, etc. My brass is once fired from my Kahr CW40. I have read and watched countless youtube videos on setting up press/dies.
Here's my problem: my reloads spec ok but will not chamber in my Kahr. The slide will not completely "close". I have even had a couple of live rounds stuck in the chamber as the slide would not pull back. I had to do the sand bucket trap and force the slide back with considerable force to rack the round out.
I am using an rcbs rockchucker with rcbs dies. Loading 180 grain flat point lead from Mastercast company. Using 5.0 grains of Unique powder. My finished loads measure 1.13 inches long plus or minus a couple thousandths. The case diameter measures anywhere from .420-.423 inches. The finished load has a slight bulge where the back of the bullet rests inside the case. The factory loads are similar . The load will not drop into the chamber like the factory loads but the caliper says it should. Any suggestions?

[ScottRiqui]

Welcome to TFL!

Can you adjust your dies to give yourself just a wee bit more crimp? With my 180gr handloads, as well as some Winchester White Box 180gr .40 S&W I have here, the case mouth is only about 0.417" to 0.418". I know that the specification for .40 S&W says that the case mouth diameter is 0.423", but perhaps your Kahr has a tight chamber?

[dalmorloson]

Actually the crimp is about .420 on these loads. Its the base and/or middle that is closer to .423. Is the Kahr guilty of the "Glock Bulge" too? Will an undersize die like Lee's help? Is there another solution?

[Gster]

Try dropping some sized cases in your barrel before they are flared.

[dalmorloson]

I guess I should have thought of that...duh. Thanks. Sized brass fits in chamber and ejects. It measured .419 at mouth and .4225 at base...now why would a hot round not chamber?

[Kilroy08]

When you re size the brass, that is not the final diameter for when you complete the loading process.

I would recommend buying a micrometer and learn how to use it. Take a finished reload and measure it. Do the same with a factory round. Cast bullets tend to be a thousandth or so fatter than jacketed. If you have a tight chamber, this could be you problem.

Now...... hold on while I put on my asbestos long johns.

I use the Lee factory crimp die for .40 S&W along with their bulge buster.

I run all my used brass though the bulge buster, then set the die back up for crimping and use it to do the final crimp on my press.

Courtesy of Mr. Starrett, factory round mics .4228 at the case mouth and my re loads measure .4224

I think 4 tenths is hardly enough to argue over.

[dalmorloson]

If you read my original post I said that I did compare my loads to factory loads. I also stated that my loads measured between .419 and .4225. I agree that your 4 tenths (ten thousandths) are nothing to worry about but is a mic necessary rather than calipers. It seems my rounds fall within tolerances but still won't chamber in my gun.

[nglayton]

FWIW, I always seem to have issues when I reload 180gr also. If I drop down to 165gr or 155gr I have no issues. It seems odd to me, but over time I have just learned to layoff the max grain projectiles.

Same thing when I reload for 9mm. 147gr gives my guns (a glock17 and SA 9mm) the fits. If I drop down to 124gr or 115gr bullets, I'm good to go. I used to think it was OAL, but I haven't bothered to go back and try again to see if I was correct.

All of my issues are FTF or FTC as you described.
BTW, shooting factory loads of 180gr and 147gr (9mm) work just great in my guns.

[Kilroy08]

My apologies, it's been a long day and my mind was wandering on other tangents while responding to your post.

Checking a couple of books, 1.130" seems to be an appropriate overall length. Are there any rifling marks on the bullets of the bad rounds when you eject them? If that is the case, I would try seating a couple thousandth's deeper.

If not, there is some bulge somewhere on the case. I bought an aftermarket .40 S&W barrel specifically for shooting reloads, and the chamber was on the tight side. The problems I had were similar to yours. Running the fired brass though a Lee bulge buster ironed everything out and uniformed it as well. After that, I had no further problems.

The ram on the bulge buster is relieved for running already loaded rounds through without stressing the primer. I had to do this as I had set my progressive up and went to town on about 300 or so rounds before I realized my folly. (I was reloading range brass, many of which came from Glock's rather famous generously sized chambers)

The only reason I advocate micrometers is that I am a machinist by trade and when measurements get below .005" I get out the micrometers.

Btw the bulge buster is a must have for when you get a great deal on range brass.

[TriumphGuy]

Now...... hold on while I put on my asbestos long johns.

I use the Lee factory crimp die for .40 S&W along with their bulge buster.

Same here. Almost all of my handgun brass is scavenged from the range. Unless I'm cooking up a barn burner max load, I resize and trim once when the brass is new (to me) and always use the FCD. No issues yet after several thousand rounds reloaded this way.

[recon14]

When I load 180 cast bullets I have to seat them deeper then normal because of their shape. Its not the same as a plated or jacketed bullet and will not fully seat in the chamber unless they are seated deeper. Just watch your load and start low and watch for pressure signs.

[dalmorloson]

I'm thinking its the shape of the cast bullet that's giving me trouble. I removed the barrel and droppes a sized empty case and measured 3.632 inches from muzzle to back of case. A factory 165 grain (I don't have any 180) dropped in and measured 3.628. My loads are the same size as factory but when dropped in barrel I get 3.678 from muzzle to case, quite a diff. If I were to seat until I can achieve closer to 3.63 fear I will go well below recommended OAL. Will this give me too much pressure?

[Ruger45LC]

When I first read your post where you had a rough time ejecting a round from the chamber I wondered what type of bullet you're loading. Some designs just need to be seated deeper. I've run into this quite a bit, so even though your OAL is within reason, the particular bullet may need to be seated deeper since it sounds like it's contacting the rifling and biting into it just a bit, which is also causing it to not chamber completely.

I've run into it most myself trying out revolver style bullets in my .45 Super. What type of bullet are you using?

Since you're using 5.0gr Unique, seating a little deeper won't be a cause for concern, that's not a real warm load anyways.

[dalmorloson]

I'm totally stumped. My bullets are cast 180 grain lead from Mastercast. I just tried to seat it deeper and no matter what I do the round will not chamber. I even seated it crazy deep (past the bevel in the lead) and still won't chamber. It feels like the lead is hitting.

[David Bachelder]

Lead bullets?

Possibly you are over crimping. Over crimping lead bullets will change the shape of the bullet.

Flare just enough to start the bullet, no more.
Crimp just enough to remove the flare.
Bullet should pass pressure test, meaning put the nose on a hard flat surface and push, the bullet should not move.

Just a thought .... I've had it happen to me before, only it was 38 Special then 9mm. The 9mm almost drove me crazy before I figured out what was wrong.

Your reloads must pass the plunk test, if they don't ... they will not cycle, period.

[jim8115]

How short did you try? My XD has to have them seated to 1.085 to chamber. You will, of course, have to adjust your powder charge seating that deep

JIM

[57K]

dalmorloson, it sounds like you have a couple of problems occurring. First. I think your OACL may be too long for the Kahr's chamber. Do you know how to test for chamber length with a specific bullet? Start a bullet into a fired case, spent primer no powder, and with your barrel removed from the pistol, insert the "dummy" into the chamber. Take a plastic mallet or a block of wood and lightly tap the case rim until the case fully seats in the chamber and stops. Remove the "dummy" and measure its OACL. Do about 5 "dummies" to make sure your getting the same OACL consistently. This is your Max. Possible OACL for the bullet in your pistol. When you go to seating the bullets for your handloads, reduce the OACL of the "dummies" by .005 - .010" for your handloads. Lyman lists a load for a 175 gr. Truncated cone shape bullet and they use an OACL of 1.100".

Secondly, you need to check the casewall thickness that your cases actually have. If your using brass with multiple headstamps, you should set your taper crimp for the cases that have the thickest casewall. Also, check your bullets to see if they're a consistent diameter and they should be .401 or .402". So with a .401" dia. bullet you would measure casewall thickness within about 1mm from the top of the case. Say that your thickest cases measured .012" just for illustration purposes. Take .012", multiply by two and add .401". like this .012 X 2 = .024" + .401" = .425" and that's .002" too much dia. at the casemouth so you would want to taper crimp to get the casemouth dia. down to at least the Max. dia. which is .423". Regardless of your actual casewall thickness, plug the number in, multiply by 2 and add bullet dia. to determine what the casemouth dia. should be before taper crimping. I also suspect that you're seating and crimping in one operation and it might help for now if you seat and crimp in 2 separate operations. If any of this isn't clear, let me know.

[dalmorloson]

For the dummy round, do you mean just start the bullet into the case and finish seating using barrel and mallet?

[YunGun]

I second 57K's comments; one or more of these factors are likely causing the mouth of the case to be slightly oversized; just enough to wedge it into the throat.

When I started out loading cast for my .40S&W, I sized all cast bullets to .401 and didn't have any issues. While testing a variety of changes in the search for the most accurate load, I also tried loading up some rounds with unsized 'as cast' bullets. They look & shoot fine, but once chambered you cannot rack the slide to eject a live round without significant effort; your problem sounds very similar.

[57K]

Originally Posted by dalmorloson For the dummy round, do you mean just start the bullet into the case and finish seating using barrel and mallet?

Yes, and if the bullet doesn't want to go into the fired case, put just enough flare (do not resize) on the case so that you can start the cast lead bullet into the case and you'll probably have to remove the flare once the bullet starts into the case, but don't actually apply any crimp to the casemouth.

[lee n. field]

Here's my problem: my reloads spec ok but will not chamber in my Kahr. The slide will not completely "close".

Check your crimp, or run them through a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Been there, done that.

I have even had a couple of live rounds stuck in the chamber as the slide would not pull back.

Check the bullets once the round has been removed from the gun. Look for rifling marks. If you see them, check your seating depth.

Loading 180 grain flat point lead from Mastercast company. Using 5.0 grains of Unique powder.

180 grain truncated cone, cast from Lee's mold, in front of 4.8 grains Bullseye. Works well for me.

[tmorone]

I had that problem loading 180's for .40 once. Couldn't figure out if it was the expanded case causing problems or the bullet hitting the lands too early like it wasn't seated deep enough.

Finally what I did was loaded a dummy round and colored the tip with a black sharpie. Dropped that into the barrel, spun it a few times then took it out to inspect. Similar to how lapping is done to valves on an engine. If the bullet is hitting the edge of the rifling, the sharpie will be scraped away and you'll have an easy to spot silver line from the lead. If it's not hitting, it's probably the lack of crimp.

In my case, a little more crimp had be in business. Good luck man.

[primerman]

Might recheck your seating die and be sure you are not seating and crimping at the same time. If your die is not adjusted right the crimp can bulge the brass if using to much crimp. For lead I think my case mouth measurement is around .423 and that is after I use a taper crimp to take the bell out of the case mouth. The bullet shape (Mentioned before) might also be the problem in which case you will have to seat the bullet a little deeper.

I might also mention that my bullets fit a Springfield XDM 3.8 40.

[dalmorloson]

I finally got a round to chamber and eject (still haven't fired one yet). I played around with seating and crimping and had to increase each to make it happen. I seated to 1.094 with a pretty heavy crimp. BTW I am seating and crimping in one step. If you think that is a problem please let me know. I am concerned about a few things: I am getting (rifling?) marks at the edge of the case mouth and bullet. why would this be when my case measures .845? Also, do you think I will experience too high pressures with this load as is?

[ScottRiqui]

I am getting (rifling?) marks at the edge of the case mouth and bullet.

If you're getting rifling marks on the case mouth, I think you're crimping too much. .40 S&W headspaces on the case mouth, so the case itself shouldn't be able to go deep enough to contact the rifling.