Colt police positive question

Fullclip610 · February 26, 2017, 09:15 PM

Hey guys,
Dad just gave me his grandfathers Philadelphia police gun from the 20's and his nitestick. I looked up the serial # on colts website and it was made in 1929 (38 special).
Just wondering if it's safe to try it out with modern 38 special ammo. Hope that's not a dumb question! Thanks!

Irish Jack · February 26, 2017, 11:07 PM

I have one made in 1929. It handles modern ammo. The problem is the gun is painful to shoot. I would shoot some 125 grs .38 Specials.

Jim Watson · February 26, 2017, 11:13 PM

.38 Special is not loaded any hotter than it ever was.
I would give it 158 gr lead, that is what the sights are regulated for.

Driftwood Johnson · February 27, 2017, 12:32 AM

Howdy

First, a slight clarification. The Police Positives that were chambered for 38 Special are referred to as Police Positive Specials. They have a slightly longer cylinder and frame than the 'regular' Police Positive which was chambered for the slightly shorter 38 S&W and 38 Colt New Police cartridges. If you look at your grandfather's gun it will probably have a marking something like this on the barrel:

Make sure you see the word 'special' there. If it does not say special, it is a Police Positive chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, which is not the same as the 38 Special.

Here is a bunch of Police Positive Specials, except for the one on the far right, which is a 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target revolver. The gun in the center is chambered for 32-20, the other three are chambered for 38 Special. The oldest gun in this photo is the one on the left, which was made in 1922, the newest is the one next to the 22, it was made in 1952.

All of these guns are fine to shoot with standard 38 Special ammunition, I would not shoot any +p out of them. Yes, the frame of the Police Positive Special is slightly smaller than a K frame S&W, so the gun is a little bit lighter and recoil will be a bit stouter than with a K frame 38. But I would not call it severe.

tallball · February 27, 2017, 06:13 AM

Here is my "Army Special". I believe it was made in 1922. IIRC, the named was changed to "Police Special" when law enforcement became the more lucrative market of the two.

I only got it in the past few months and have taken it to the range a couple of times. It shoots modern 38 special ammo just fine. The sights are a little small, but the trigger is good. It is decently accurate for me and fun to shoot.

I hope you enjoy shooting your family heirloom.

Jim Watson · February 27, 2017, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Here is my "Army Special". I believe it was made in 1922. IIRC, the named was changed to "Police Special" when law enforcement became the more lucrative market of the two.

Official Police.
No matter what the detective pulps and newspaper stories say, there is no "Police Special" revolver made by Colt or Smith & Wesson.
Colt Police Positive and Official Police
S&W Military & Police and Regulation Police.
Detective Special and Chief's Special but not Police Special.

Driftwood Johnson · February 27, 2017, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Here is my "Army Special". I believe it was made in 1922. IIRC, the named was changed to "Police Special" when law enforcement became the more lucrative market of the two.

Yup.

Colt names can be confusing. In 1927, when military purchases of firearms had slowed down, Colt changed the name of the Army Special to Official Police, to try to entice more law enforcement agencies to buy the gun. Same gun, different name.

The Official Police is a bigger gun than the Police Positive or the Police Positive Special.

In this photo, the largest gun is a Colt Army Special (Official Police). Directly below it is a Police Positive Special. At the bottom right is a 32 Police Positive, and the little gun at bottom left is a Colt 32 Pocket Positive.

The Colt Police Positive Special is a little bit smaller than a standard K frame S&W. That is why the recoil with a Police Positive Special may be a little bit more unpleasant than the recoil from a K frame S&W. Here is a photo of a 4" S&W 38 M&P at the top, and a 4" Colt Police Positive Special at the bottom.

lamarw · February 27, 2017, 02:58 PM

I also shoot the 158 grain lead bullets our of my Police Positive Special (First Issue) from 1921. It is a sweet little revolver.

Jim Watson · February 27, 2017, 03:09 PM

Did they ever sell an Army Special to the Army?

Driftwood Johnson · February 27, 2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Did they ever sell an Army Special to the Army?

Ouch! None of my books mentions that. Will try to look into it further.

So you think maybe Colt was indulging in wishful thinking when they named the Army Special model?

SaxonPig · February 27, 2017, 04:00 PM

The name was an attempt to curry favor with the military but the Army never bought the Army Special Model.

Jim Watson · February 27, 2017, 11:09 PM

The Army Special was the followon to the New Army/Navy which were GI.
I figure the Army didn't want any more .38s and moved up to the New Service instead.

damienph · February 28, 2017, 06:17 PM

Driftwood Johnson, my Police Positive was my grandfather's that he acquired either in the late '20s or early '30s. It is roll marked

P olice - 38 Special.
ositive.

One large "P" shared with both Police and Positive

Not quite like yours that actually say "Police Positive Special"

As you can see, it has little finish left. He was a hunting and fishing guide for the executives of a fur company in south Louisiana for 40 years (1925-1965) and carried this revolver with him much of the time while in the marsh. I have his holster as well. The salt water took its toll on it but it is mechanically in good shape and indexes and locks up tight. Pretty decent shooter too, even with the small grips. I inherited it after he passed away in 1990, it was still loaded with .38 Longs and in the holster on the top shelf in his bedroom closet. I have an almost full box of .38 Longs that came with it.

lamarw · February 28, 2017, 06:59 PM

Mine from 1921 is marked the same way with a single large "P".

Pictures:

bedbugbilly · February 28, 2017, 07:36 PM

Colt Army Special was introduced in 1908 - the same year that the Model T was born as well as my father. Name chenged to 'Official Police' in 1927 - the same year my Dad graduated from high school and it was a move made by Colt for marketing purposes. I have one with a six inch barrel that was made in 1910 and it shootw great for a 107 year old revolver.

BUT . . . it is a whole different revolver than what the OP is talking about - different overall size and different frame size. Think of it as Colt's "sort of" version of a J frame Smith.

damienph · February 28, 2017, 09:55 PM

lamarw, I believe that mine was made in 1922 but I can't remember if that was from looking up the serial number or what.

Thanks for posting pics of yours, I never get tired of looking at others guns.

Driftwood Johnson · March 1, 2017, 12:36 AM

Howdy Again

The Police Positive Special was built on the same frame that was later used for the Detective Special. The Detective Special was a six shot, 38 Special, snub nosed revolver. These guns had frames slightly larger than a S&W J frame. The gun at the bottom of this photo is a S&W Model 36, also known as the Chiefs Special. The Chiefs Special was a five shot 38 Special snub nosed revolver.

Roll marks for Police Positive Specials varied over the years. The one I posted earlier was from a revolver made in 1952. This is one was made in 1922. It has the single P for both Police and Positive.

This 32-20 Police Positive Special was made in 1926. It shares the single P. Even though it was not chambered for 38 Special, these guns had the same long frame and long cylinder as the 38 Police Positive Specials, for the 32-20 cartridge, so they were called Specials too.

This 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target was made in 1936. Note that Police and Positive each have their own Ps on this one.

A pretty cool little revolver. It did not have the long frame of the Specials, as a matter of fact the frame and cylinder are shorter than on a plain 38 Police Positive. It has a front sight that is adjustable for elevation by turning a screw at the front of the sight, and the rear sight is drift adjustable for windage.

damienph · March 1, 2017, 07:02 AM

I do like that .22 with the adjustable sights. I have an Officer's Model .22 that looks a lot like that one except with a considerable amount of finish damage on the left side from poor storage at some point in it's existence. However, it is still very accurate.

Will_G · March 1, 2017, 08:04 AM

I just want to thank you guys for posting these photos...quite interesting. I had never seen Colts where the "Police" and "Positive" shared the initial "P". Quite cool.

Driftwood Johnson · March 1, 2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

I have an Officer's Model .22 that looks a lot like that one except with a considerable amount of finish damage on the left side from poor storage at some point in it's existence.

Howdy Again

I have an Officer's Model Target 22 also. It was made in 1935. The Officer's Model Target 22 is a much bigger gun than the Police Positive Target 22. They both have the same arrangement with the adjustable sights.

The Officer's Model Target 22 was built on the same frame as the Official Police or Army Special. Because one is a 38 and one is a 22, the smaller holes in the 22 make it a heavier gun than the 38. It is a heavy gun, it weighs 2 pounds 11 ounces.

The Officer's Model Target 22 is bigger than a S&W K22 too. Even though this K22 has a barrel rib and the Colt does not, the Colt is several ounces heavier than the K22.

damienph · March 1, 2017, 01:31 PM

Driftwood Johnson, you certainly have some beautiful revolvers!! thanks for posting the pics, I never get tired of looking at others firearms.

My Officers 22
The good side

the not so good side

The carved mother of pearl stocks that were on it when I bought it

As it looks now wearing a set of Sile target stocks, next to my K22 (which no longer has those smooth aftermarket stocks on it). I know I have better pics of the Sile's but I cant seem to find them on Photobucket today.

February 26, 2017, 09:15 PM	#1
Fullclip610 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 119	Colt police positive question Hey guys, Dad just gave me his grandfathers Philadelphia police gun from the 20's and his nitestick. I looked up the serial # on colts website and it was made in 1929 (38 special). Just wondering if it's safe to try it out with modern 38 special ammo. Hope that's not a dumb question! Thanks!

February 28, 2017, 06:17 PM	#13
damienph Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 319	Police Positive .38 Special Driftwood Johnson, my Police Positive was my grandfather's that he acquired either in the late '20s or early '30s. It is roll marked P olice - 38 Special. ositive. One large "P" shared with both Police and Positive Not quite like yours that actually say "Police Positive Special" As you can see, it has little finish left. He was a hunting and fishing guide for the executives of a fur company in south Louisiana for 40 years (1925-1965) and carried this revolver with him much of the time while in the marsh. I have his holster as well. The salt water took its toll on it but it is mechanically in good shape and indexes and locks up tight. Pretty decent shooter too, even with the small grips. I inherited it after he passed away in 1990, it was still loaded with .38 Longs and in the holster on the top shelf in his bedroom closet. I have an almost full box of .38 Longs that came with it.

February 28, 2017, 07:36 PM	#15
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Colt Army Special was introduced in 1908 - the same year that the Model T was born as well as my father. Name chenged to 'Official Police' in 1927 - the same year my Dad graduated from high school and it was a move made by Colt for marketing purposes. I have one with a six inch barrel that was made in 1910 and it shootw great for a 107 year old revolver. BUT . . . it is a whole different revolver than what the OP is talking about - different overall size and different frame size. Think of it as Colt's "sort of" version of a J frame Smith. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 1, 2017, 08:04 AM	#19
Will_G Member Join Date: January 6, 2017 Posts: 27	Thanks I just want to thank you guys for posting these photos...quite interesting. I had never seen Colts where the "Police" and "Positive" shared the initial "P". Quite cool.

March 1, 2017, 01:31 PM	#21
damienph Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 319	Officers Model 22 Driftwood Johnson, you certainly have some beautiful revolvers!! thanks for posting the pics, I never get tired of looking at others firearms. My Officers 22 The good side the not so good side The carved mother of pearl stocks that were on it when I bought it As it looks now wearing a set of Sile target stocks, next to my K22 (which no longer has those smooth aftermarket stocks on it). I know I have better pics of the Sile's but I cant seem to find them on Photobucket today.

February 26, 2017, 11:07 PM	#2
Irish Jack Member Join Date: February 26, 2017 Posts: 29	I have one made in 1929. It handles modern ammo. The problem is the gun is painful to shoot. I would shoot some 125 grs .38 Specials.

February 26, 2017, 11:13 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	.38 Special is not loaded any hotter than it ever was. I would give it 158 gr lead, that is what the sights are regulated for.

February 27, 2017, 12:32 AM	#4
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy First, a slight clarification. The Police Positives that were chambered for 38 Special are referred to as Police Positive Specials. They have a slightly longer cylinder and frame than the 'regular' Police Positive which was chambered for the slightly shorter 38 S&W and 38 Colt New Police cartridges. If you look at your grandfather's gun it will probably have a marking something like this on the barrel: Make sure you see the word 'special' there. If it does not say special, it is a Police Positive chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, which is not the same as the 38 Special. Here is a bunch of Police Positive Specials, except for the one on the far right, which is a 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target revolver. The gun in the center is chambered for 32-20, the other three are chambered for 38 Special. The oldest gun in this photo is the one on the left, which was made in 1922, the newest is the one next to the 22, it was made in 1952. All of these guns are fine to shoot with standard 38 Special ammunition, I would not shoot any +p out of them. Yes, the frame of the Police Positive Special is slightly smaller than a K frame S&W, so the gun is a little bit lighter and recoil will be a bit stouter than with a K frame 38. But I would not call it severe.

February 27, 2017, 06:13 AM	#5
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	Here is my "Army Special". I believe it was made in 1922. IIRC, the named was changed to "Police Special" when law enforcement became the more lucrative market of the two. I only got it in the past few months and have taken it to the range a couple of times. It shoots modern 38 special ammo just fine. The sights are a little small, but the trigger is good. It is decently accurate for me and fun to shoot. I hope you enjoy shooting your family heirloom.

February 27, 2017, 02:58 PM	#8
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I also shoot the 158 grain lead bullets our of my Police Positive Special (First Issue) from 1921. It is a sweet little revolver.

February 27, 2017, 03:09 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Did they ever sell an Army Special to the Army?

February 27, 2017, 04:00 PM	#11
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	The name was an attempt to curry favor with the military but the Army never bought the Army Special Model.

February 27, 2017, 11:09 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	The Army Special was the followon to the New Army/Navy which were GI. I figure the Army didn't want any more .38s and moved up to the New Service instead.

February 28, 2017, 09:55 PM	#16
damienph Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 319	lamarw, I believe that mine was made in 1922 but I can't remember if that was from looking up the serial number or what. Thanks for posting pics of yours, I never get tired of looking at others guns.

March 1, 2017, 12:36 AM	#17
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Again The Police Positive Special was built on the same frame that was later used for the Detective Special. The Detective Special was a six shot, 38 Special, snub nosed revolver. These guns had frames slightly larger than a S&W J frame. The gun at the bottom of this photo is a S&W Model 36, also known as the Chiefs Special. The Chiefs Special was a five shot 38 Special snub nosed revolver. Roll marks for Police Positive Specials varied over the years. The one I posted earlier was from a revolver made in 1952. This is one was made in 1922. It has the single P for both Police and Positive. This 32-20 Police Positive Special was made in 1926. It shares the single P. Even though it was not chambered for 38 Special, these guns had the same long frame and long cylinder as the 38 Police Positive Specials, for the 32-20 cartridge, so they were called Specials too. This 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target was made in 1936. Note that Police and Positive each have their own Ps on this one. A pretty cool little revolver. It did not have the long frame of the Specials, as a matter of fact the frame and cylinder are shorter than on a plain 38 Police Positive. It has a front sight that is adjustable for elevation by turning a screw at the front of the sight, and the rear sight is drift adjustable for windage.

March 1, 2017, 07:02 AM	#18
damienph Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 319	I do like that .22 with the adjustable sights. I have an Officer's Model .22 that looks a lot like that one except with a considerable amount of finish damage on the left side from poor storage at some point in it's existence. However, it is still very accurate.