Range Day with Necked Down Pistol Rounds

ligonierbill · April 19, 2016, 02:09 PM

Rounds being 7.62x25 Tokarev and 357 Sig.

I had tested a Tokarev workup using Hornady data and their .309 90 gr XTP last year, but the light was wrong, resulting in spotty data from my optical chrono. Today I had my radar unit and ran a string of 10 just under Hornady's max at 14.0 gr H110. I'm shooting a CZ-52. Averaged 1,484/21.7 Std, well below what Hornady got with the same pistol, but hotter that the PPU commercial rounds I have. This pistol is a hoot, but it flings brass into next week! I need to get out and play with it some more. One thing that I haven't experienced before: the trigger failed to reset a few times. I was shooting deliberately, not rapid fire. Any thoughts?

I'm shooting 357 Sig out of a Glock 23 with an aftermarket barrel. I had been struggling with that one last year, but I think I've got it now. The problem was failure to extract the previous round, and what was happening was the extractor would claw a mark in the case but pull off with the case just starting to extract. Drop the mag and work the slide manually, and it ejects. I guess I could replace the extractor or try a stiffer spring, but the pistol works fine with .40 S&W and commercial 357 Sig. These loads are based on Speer data. Loading a Speer 125 TMJ over AA#9, I got the following:

12.9 gr 1,373 avg 13.1 Std No failures
13.1 gr 1,415 avg 8.7 Std 1 FTE
13.3 gr First round FTE and I stopped.

Speer starts at 13.1 and goes to max 14.6, but they get lower velocities (Sig 229), with only 1,287 at 13.1. Looks like mine's tighter. They do get 1,437 at max, truly matching a .357 Mag out of a 4" bbl. I'll settle for my 1,373, maybe try 13.0 gr to see if that is reliable as well. Commercial ammo is a little slower. Federal Premium goes 1,348, and Speer Gold Dot 1,310.

I also tried some 125 Barnes TAC-XP over Power Pistol:

7.1 gr 1,194 16.7 Std
7.2 gr 1,211 6.4 Std
7.3 gr 1,225 14.1 Std
7.4 gr 1,219 15.3 Std

No failures, but obviously running out of steam pretty quick. In this case, I'm going to write off the Barnes. They do well for me in other applications, but I've got some Sierra JHP that should compare to the Speer. That's looking like my field round.

9x45 · April 19, 2016, 02:45 PM

Did you plunk test your .357SIG rounds in the chamber before firing? I only use once fired Speer brass, 125gr JHP Montana Golds over 7.8 grains of BE-86, out of a G31, they go just at 1,400fps. What bullets were you using with the FTE issues? Most auto progressive reloaders will throw powders at +/- .1-.3 grains, so I would bump each load by .3 grains. The .357SIG likes to run on the hot side in Glocks.

ligonierbill · April 19, 2016, 02:54 PM

Plunk test is fine. I also got a Wilson case gauge for this caliber. I think this is a slide speed issue. Note only one FTE with 13.1 at 1,415. Good at 12.9, so I think 13.0 will be GTG very close to 1,400. Also note my edit; those are 125 gr TAC-XP.

My bullets are Speer 125 TMJ, good practice bullets.

Jwilson904 · April 19, 2016, 03:25 PM

If you are looking for velocity try some 800x in the 357 sig.

Clark · April 19, 2016, 07:15 PM

This Tokarev I built shot 4.2 moa with S&B factory. I think I could cut that in half with handloads and another trip to the range.

ligonierbill · April 19, 2016, 07:55 PM

Now that's some pistol! My CZ is fun, but it's more minute of barn door.

mkl · April 20, 2016, 01:29 PM

I've have several CZ-52's and they are a hoot to shoot. Like you, my accuracy isn't great, but my daughter in law can do quite will with the one I gave her. It does chuck brass into the next county.

One word of caution. Don't dry fire the CZ-52 unless you have replaced the cast firing pin with a steel one. The original issue cast ones break in two fairly easily unless there is a primer to impact. I bought one at a gun show with the firing pin in two pieces. The firing pin is easy to replace with a steel one and last time I looked those were still available from some sources.

April 19, 2016, 02:09 PM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,450	Range Day with Necked Down Pistol Rounds Rounds being 7.62x25 Tokarev and 357 Sig. I had tested a Tokarev workup using Hornady data and their .309 90 gr XTP last year, but the light was wrong, resulting in spotty data from my optical chrono. Today I had my radar unit and ran a string of 10 just under Hornady's max at 14.0 gr H110. I'm shooting a CZ-52. Averaged 1,484/21.7 Std, well below what Hornady got with the same pistol, but hotter that the PPU commercial rounds I have. This pistol is a hoot, but it flings brass into next week! I need to get out and play with it some more. One thing that I haven't experienced before: the trigger failed to reset a few times. I was shooting deliberately, not rapid fire. Any thoughts? I'm shooting 357 Sig out of a Glock 23 with an aftermarket barrel. I had been struggling with that one last year, but I think I've got it now. The problem was failure to extract the previous round, and what was happening was the extractor would claw a mark in the case but pull off with the case just starting to extract. Drop the mag and work the slide manually, and it ejects. I guess I could replace the extractor or try a stiffer spring, but the pistol works fine with .40 S&W and commercial 357 Sig. These loads are based on Speer data. Loading a Speer 125 TMJ over AA#9, I got the following: 12.9 gr 1,373 avg 13.1 Std No failures 13.1 gr 1,415 avg 8.7 Std 1 FTE 13.3 gr First round FTE and I stopped. Speer starts at 13.1 and goes to max 14.6, but they get lower velocities (Sig 229), with only 1,287 at 13.1. Looks like mine's tighter. They do get 1,437 at max, truly matching a .357 Mag out of a 4" bbl. I'll settle for my 1,373, maybe try 13.0 gr to see if that is reliable as well. Commercial ammo is a little slower. Federal Premium goes 1,348, and Speer Gold Dot 1,310. I also tried some 125 Barnes TAC-XP over Power Pistol: 7.1 gr 1,194 16.7 Std 7.2 gr 1,211 6.4 Std 7.3 gr 1,225 14.1 Std 7.4 gr 1,219 15.3 Std No failures, but obviously running out of steam pretty quick. In this case, I'm going to write off the Barnes. They do well for me in other applications, but I've got some Sierra JHP that should compare to the Speer. That's looking like my field round. Last edited by ligonierbill; April 19, 2016 at 02:49 PM.

April 19, 2016, 02:45 PM	#2
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Did you plunk test your .357SIG rounds in the chamber before firing? I only use once fired Speer brass, 125gr JHP Montana Golds over 7.8 grains of BE-86, out of a G31, they go just at 1,400fps. What bullets were you using with the FTE issues? Most auto progressive reloaders will throw powders at +/- .1-.3 grains, so I would bump each load by .3 grains. The .357SIG likes to run on the hot side in Glocks. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look.....

April 19, 2016, 02:54 PM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,450	Plunk test is fine. I also got a Wilson case gauge for this caliber. I think this is a slide speed issue. Note only one FTE with 13.1 at 1,415. Good at 12.9, so I think 13.0 will be GTG very close to 1,400. Also note my edit; those are 125 gr TAC-XP. My bullets are Speer 125 TMJ, good practice bullets.

April 19, 2016, 03:25 PM	#4
Jwilson904 Member Join Date: May 10, 2015 Posts: 56	If you are looking for velocity try some 800x in the 357 sig.

April 19, 2016, 07:55 PM	#6
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,450	Now that's some pistol! My CZ is fun, but it's more minute of barn door.

April 20, 2016, 01:29 PM	#7
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	I've have several CZ-52's and they are a hoot to shoot. Like you, my accuracy isn't great, but my daughter in law can do quite will with the one I gave her. It does chuck brass into the next county. One word of caution. Don't dry fire the CZ-52 unless you have replaced the cast firing pin with a steel one. The original issue cast ones break in two fairly easily unless there is a primer to impact. I bought one at a gun show with the firing pin in two pieces. The firing pin is easy to replace with a steel one and last time I looked those were still available from some sources.