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Old April 12, 2019, 01:01 AM   #1
rep1954
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Firearm with rifled barrel?

If one was to assemble a virgin receiver into a rifled cartridge firing gun built to the same barrel length and OAL as a TAC 14 would it be considered a pistol or a firearm as is a TAC 14? If not what would remove it from the firearm category? Also can a pistol be made into a firearm as it can be turned into a rifle?

Last edited by rep1954; April 12, 2019 at 01:08 AM.
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Old April 12, 2019, 06:27 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by rep1954 View Post
If one was to assemble a virgin receiver into a rifled cartridge firing gun built to the same barrel length and OAL as a TAC 14 would it be considered a pistol or a firearm as is a TAC 14?
It depends. Take note of the federal definition of a pistol:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...inition-pistol

So if you install a pistol grip then it’s a pistol. If, instead, you designed it to be pintle-mounted on a tripod, it wouldn’t meet the federal definition of a pistol and therefore would be a “firearm”. If you put a pistol grip on it and also put a vertical foregrip on it, then it would either be an NFA AOW or a non-NFA “firearm” depending on whether it was over or under 26” overall length, and that’s because it no longer meets the federal definition of a pistol since it’s not designed to be fired with one hand.

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Also can a pistol be made into a firearm as it can be turned into a rifle?
Yes.
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Old April 12, 2019, 07:53 AM   #3
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Think of it this way: Generally speaking, if a firearm doesn’t fit into any of the various firearm definitions set forth by the 1934 NFA and then the 1968 GCA (rifle, pistol, shotgun, short-barrel rifle, machine gun, etc.), then it’s either a generic “firearm” or an NFA “AOW”.
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Old April 12, 2019, 11:08 AM   #4
rep1954
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So a virgin receiver with a mares leg or shock wave like grip with a rifled barrel to bring it over 26" would follow under the "firearm" listing?

Last edited by rep1954; April 12, 2019 at 11:33 AM.
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Old April 12, 2019, 05:53 PM   #5
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No, that would be a pistol. There is no length limit for a pistol. However, if you add a vertical foregrip to a pistol, it’s no longer designed to fire with the use of a single hand. So a pistol with a vertical foregrip is an NFA AOW if it’s under 26”, and a non-NFA “firearm” if it’s over 26”.

Keep in mind that the shape of the Shockwave’s birds-head grip has zero direct bearing on making it a “firearm” other than the fact that it gets the overall length over the 26” limit. With a regular pistol grip, the overall length of the Shockwave would be under 26”, so it would be an AOW.

A regular 18” pistol-grip-only shotgun is a “firearm” just like a Shockwave, since they both are shotguns that don’t have stocks (and were originally made without them) and both are over 26” in overall length.
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Old April 13, 2019, 07:54 AM   #6
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So then a rifle with a barrel of 16" and a 26" plus overall length is still a rifle or been turned into a AOW? Anything I read on rifles seems to indicate it is a gun that can be fired from the shoulder. Dose a handgun become a rifle at the point it's barrel is 16" or longer and it's OAL 26" plus or when you attach a shoulder stock to it or both.
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Old April 13, 2019, 12:56 PM   #7
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"...a virgin receiver..." Is irrelevant.
"...can a pistol be made into a firearm..." A pistol is already a firearm unless it uses BP.
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Old April 13, 2019, 01:20 PM   #8
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So then a rifle with a barrel of 16" and a 26" plus overall length is still a rifle or been turned into a AOW? Anything I read on rifles seems to indicate it is a gun that can be fired from the shoulder. Dose a handgun become a rifle at the point it's barrel is 16" or longer and it's OAL 26" plus or when you attach a shoulder stock to it or both.
It is a rifle if it is designed (or redesigned) to be fired from the shoulder. Generally, that means having a stock. The barrel length only matters in figuring out if it is a NFA SBR or normal Title 1 rifle. The OAL issue is for NFA AOW vs. non-NFA "firearm." If it is not a rifle or shotgun AND is designed to be fired with two hands AND has an OAL under 26in, it is most likely an NFA AOW. If it is not a rifle or shotgun AND is designed to be fired with two hands AND is over 26in OAL, it is most likely an non-NFA "Firearm."

Quote:
"...a virgin receiver..." Is irrelevant.
Not necessarily. Converting what was originally a rifle back and forth to pistol status may run afoul of US federal firearms law.

Quote:
"...can a pistol be made into a firearm..." A pistol is already a firearm unless it uses BP.
This is the NFA subforum. We are talking about US federal firearms laws and their associated definitions. A pistol is different than a non-NFA "Firearm" under federal law. That is why, in the US, the Mossberg Shockwave is not a "pistol" nor a "shotgun."
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Old April 13, 2019, 01:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...a virgin receiver..." Is irrelevant.
"...can a pistol be made into a firearm..." A pistol is already a firearm unless it uses BP.
As usual, your post is flat-out incorrect. I’m fairly certain that there’s nobody on TFL that posts as much incorrect information as you do. This is not meant to be an insult, I’m simply stating an observation. If only you’d revisit posts where you’ve commented, you might learn from the other members’ corrections. Instead, you keep posting bad information over and over; often the same information that others have corrected previously. In fact, it’s almost certain you won’t even see this post, since you never revisit threads.
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Old April 13, 2019, 01:58 PM   #10
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So then a rifle with a barrel of 16" and a 26" plus overall length is still a rifle or been turned into a AOW?
Read the ATF definition of a rifle:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...finition-rifle

It’s also helpful to read ATF ruling 2011-4:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...igured-pistols

In short, if a receiver was first assembled as a rifle, it will always be a rifle (or a short-barreled rifle if the overall length is less than 26” or the barrel is shorter than 16”). If the receiver was first assembled as a pistol, you could turn it into a generic “firearm” or an AOW, and I described the way to do both in previous posts in this thread.

I think you may be overthinking this. I encourage you to look at the ATF’s website, they have all the various definitions of the different types of firearms. The easiest way to do that is to Google “ATF definition [insert firearm type here]”. If a firearm meets those definitions, then that’s what it is. If the firearm doesn’t meet any of the definitions of any of those firearms, then it’s either a generic “firearm” or an NFA “AOW” (that stands for any other weapon). Generally, the difference between a generic “firearm” and an AOW is whether it’s designed to look like a non-firearm (cane guns, guns in wallet holsters that can be fired from inside the holster, etc.) or whether it’s concealable (pistol-grip-only shotguns under 26” OAL, pistols with VFGs under 26”, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rep1954 View Post
Anything I read on rifles seems to indicate it is a gun that can be fired from the shoulder. Dose a handgun become a rifle at the point it's barrel is 16" or longer and it's OAL 26" plus or when you attach a shoulder stock to it or both.
Like I already pointed out, there is no overall length limit to a pistol. A pistol becomes a rifle at the point where you add a stock to it.
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Last edited by Theohazard; April 13, 2019 at 02:14 PM.
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Old April 13, 2019, 05:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Theohazard Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...a virgin receiver..." Is irrelevant.
"...can a pistol be made into a firearm..." A pistol is already a firearm unless it uses BP.
As usual, your post is flat-out incorrect. I’m fairly certain that there’s nobody on TFL that posts as much incorrect information as you do. This is not meant to be an insult, I’m simply stating an observation. If only you’d revisit posts where you’ve commented, you might learn from the other members’ corrections. Instead, you keep posting bad information over and over; often the same information that others have corrected previously. In fact, it’s almost certain you won’t even see this post, since you never revisit threads.
I concur.
Almost 11K posts and at least half are chock full of incorrect information.
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