DA/SA pistols carry questions

Skarekrow88 · July 14, 2021, 05:34 PM

I just picked up a new Jericho II (aka Enhanced) and I love it. However I want to carry it hammer down with a round in the chamber. From what I understand that SHOULD be safe given it has a firing pin block safety. Do I have that right?

Unfortunately it does not have a decocker so the only way to carry it hammer down with a live round ready is to carefully lower the hammer down manually. I dont like doing that but its apprently my only option with this gun. I've read and been told that carrying "half-cocked" isnt a great idea given that its actually a safety mechanism and not a mode of carry and it can be a good way to damage your sear if you drop it on the hammer or something hits the hammer hard enough.

Another question I have is: If its not a great idea to carry "half-cocked" why do the decockers on my HK USP 45 and SIG P226 (I think the 226 does anyway) both drop the hammer to half cocked position?

I know my old CZ-75 (Pre-B) doesn't have a firing pin block so I know for a fact its not smart to carry hammer down but is it ok for me to carry it "half-cocked?" If not why does the gun even have the capability to be fired in DA mode other than second strike capability, or is that the only purpose if your DA/SA pistol (with no firing pin block) doesnt have a decocker?

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

Heres a pic of the Jericho II, only gun I own that feels as good in the hand is my CZ-75

https://imgur.com/a/e0DLFTa

Jim Watson · July 14, 2021, 06:24 PM

Lowering the hammer on what J. Cooper called "selective double action" is a touchy business, but it is a regular operation for the many USPSA Production competitors who prefer the CZ-TZ pattern guns.

Hammer all the way down on an inertial firing pin is a safer condition than half cock, it takes a hard fall in just the right orientation to overcome the inertial firing pin's mass and spring, whereas there are more blows that will break a hammer out of half cock.
Even your (and my) "pre-B" is safer with the hammer all the way down, as are all those match guns, which generally lack firing pin blocks. And the rules require it, anyhow; a CZ has a long reach to the trigger and half cock would be a distinct competitive advantage.

The HK and Sig with mechanical decocking to what looks like half cock are designed that way and have firing pin blocks. Sig has warned that easing the hammer down with trigger and thumb can override the internal safeties. Follow directions.

Skarekrow88 · July 14, 2021, 06:59 PM

Thanks for the reply, very helpful and also good news. I'll just be extra careful when lowering the hammer and carry it hammer down like I want.

Jim Watson · July 14, 2021, 07:16 PM

The other side of that is that you don't have to lower the hammer very often.
Load, decock, holster, and go.
When you return, stow the gun as is, no need to unload and reload every day, only after you shoot, clean and reload.
If you have children about, use a lockbox.

cslinger · July 14, 2021, 09:57 PM

What Jim said above. Also a couple things to possibly add.
1-Look up the finger roll or whatever the CZ folks call it when they keep their offhand thumb between the hammer and firing pin when lowering the hammer. I find this far safer then the typical “thumb the hammer down” as it’s far easier to have the hammer slip IMO. But I am no expert.

2-ALWAYS decock in a safe direction (even with true decockers). One thing you might want to do is have a sand or dirt bucket to decock into with something like a CZ or similar without a decocker, even a big houseplant. Gives you a safer medium in case of a failure.

Take care and shoot safe,
Chris

**44 AMP** · July 15, 2021, 12:46 AM

The phrase "going off half cocked" didn't just spring out of nowhere.

First rule, VERY IMPORTANT RULE,

NEVER PUT 100% faith in a mechanical safety. 99% sure, but always be aware that any mechanism CAN FAIL. Use of the mechanism, the way it was designed to be used, ALONG WITH PROPER SAFE GUN HANDLING is what keeps you safe.

Generally speaking with pistols, half cock is the least safe way to carry or store the gun with the chamber loaded.

This is for two reasons, one of which is the small but real risk when lowering the hammer from full cock to half cock. The other reason is because of the way the mechanisms work.

Modern DA/SA semi autos generally have inertia type firing pins. This means that it is a floating firing pin and is shorter than the distance it has to travel (and so doesn't contact the primer) and there is usually also a spring, pushing the firing pin to the rear.

This is a pretty good system but can allow the gun to fire unintentionally under certain extreme and rare conditions.

A firing pin block mechanically binds the fring pin in place until the trigger is pulled (which moves the block out of the way, freeing the firing pin), at which time the firing pin will move just like a gun with no firing pin block.

SO, this is one of the risks in lowering the hammer, (if the gun doesn't have a decocker), you have to pull the trigger, deactivating the firing pin block, so you can lower the hammer. IF you slip off the hammer, the gun fires.

Now, if the gun has a decocker, or a safety that also decocks the hammer you have a couple of other points you need to be aware of. First, how does your gun drop the hammer when you decock it??

Some guns, like Sigs drop the hammer onto a safety notch that is short of the firing pin. This sort of looks like the hammer is half cocked but it is really something different.

Some other designs lock the firing pin and drop the hammer down onto the firing pin. And some others interpose a block between the hammer and firing pin and drop the hammer down on that.

Now, it may be a one in a million thing, but people do win the lottery, and if its your "unlucky day" and things go wrong in just the right way for bad things to happen, these systems can fail and the gun could fire when you decock it. Always ALWAYS make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction WITH a safe backstop before you drop the hammer with a safety or decock lever.

Now, the reason a hammer at half cock over a loaded chamber is worse idea than the hammer down over a loaded chamber is again, inertia.

To fire, something has to strike the rear of the firing pin, (and the pin has to be free to move) to drive it forward with enough force to set off the primer. The hammer does this being spring driven and "having a running start".

With the hammer all the way down, it may be touching the end of the firing pin, but it is also in firm contact with the slide and possibly also the frame. There is no running start possible. Any blow to the hammer has its force transferred to the slide or frame, and not the firing pin. IF the hammer is at half cock, and an impact causes it to fall, it gets a "running start" and does strike the firing pin. Possibly hard enough to fire the gun. That's why half cock is less safe than hammer down.

Quote:

Another question I have is: If its not a great idea to carry "half-cocked" why do the decockers on my HK USP 45 and SIG P226 (I think the 226 does anyway) both drop the hammer to half cocked position?

They don't drop the hammer to a half cock position, it only looks like they do. The purpose of the half cock position comes down to us from the days when all firearms required the hammer to be manually cocked. It is there to catch the hammer if you slip off it before it locks back cocked.

The half cock is in the approximate middle of the hammer arc, to catch the hammer because from beyond that point the hammer can fall with enough force to fire the gun. If you slip off the hammer before you have pulled it back to the half cock position, it shouldn't have enough force to fire the gun. (it doesn't fall far or fast enough - not enough "running start")

Not certain about the HK but I have a couple Sigs and the spot the decocker drops the hammer onto is not half cock, its position is more like 1/4 cock, or less, its just off the firing pin a little bit short of touching it. To get the hammer to go all the way down, you have to pull the trigger.

Pulling the trigger with the hammer in the "decock notch" fires the Sig DA, and actually takes a bit less trigger effort than firing the gun DA with the hammer all the way down.

If the gun you want to carry doesn't decock, and you want to carry hammer down on a live round, you have to carefully pull the trigger and ride the hammer down, there's no other option. Not 100% safe but millions of people have done it millions of times without incident.

Of course, like I said, people do win the bad luck lottery sometimes, and it only takes once to end or ruin a life, and it will be entirely your fault if it does happen.

Want to do it as safe as practical? Stick your finger between the hammer and the firing pin, THEN pull the trigger and ride the hammer down onto your finger. once its down against your finger, let go of the trigger, siide your finger out and ride it down the rest of the way. This way, even if you slip where the hammer has enough of a running start to fire the gun, it will hit your finger (hopefully teaching you a painful lesson), the softness of your finger will not transfer enough energy to the firing pin to fire the gun.

My personal thought is that its best to use a gun that allows you the carry it the way you want to, and if you feel a need to lower the hammer (which is waay better than half cock) you are best off with a gun that lets you do that without needing to pull the trigger.

Lots of guns will do that, lots won't. If they won't, we can work around that, and not shoot ourselves or anyone else, but one needs be vigilant to be safe.

Cosmodragoon · July 15, 2021, 12:50 AM

I prefer a decocker but I've safely lowered the hammers on revolvers and DA/SA semi-autos more times than I could guess. Practice technique on an empty chamber until you have it down.

wild cat mccane · July 15, 2021, 10:54 AM

I really like the P99 AS decocker.

It phsyically catches the striker and then releases the striker from the sear...striker stops when hitting the decocker.

So if the decocker decocks, you know it it going to not fire.

gwpercle · July 15, 2021, 11:36 AM

If you can't figure out how to carry it ...
... A DA Revolver would be my solution to this dilemma !
Does the owner's manual give any insight as to a safe way ?
Gary

adamBomb · July 15, 2021, 02:02 PM

I've lowered the hammer a lot but I was always at a range aiming down range when I did it just in case. I would not do it at home. If that's how you want to carry I would find something that meets your needs (ie beretta, hk, etc.). I love carrying a gun with hammer down so I get why you want it but carry the gun how its meant to be carried. I am not sure that gun is meant to be carried hammer down or it would have a decocker.

Skarekrow88 · July 15, 2021, 09:45 PM

Quote:

If you can't figure out how to carry it ...
... A DA Revolver would be my solution to this dilemma !
Does the owner's manual give any insight as to a safe way ?

I know how I WANT to carry it. Its kind of an obscure gun so holster options are virtually non existent aside from custom made. I prefer to carry it hammer down in my 5.11 bag but that requires me dropping the hammer down on a live round with the trigger hence the issue presented here. Not only does the manual not mention a safe way to get the pistol into DA mode but it makes no mention of the fact that the gun has a DA function at all.

Quote:

I love carrying a gun with hammer down so I get why you want it but carry the gun how its meant to be carried. I am not sure that gun is meant to be carried hammer down or it would have a decocker.

If I was going to carry this on me (in a holster) I would have zero issue with it being cocked and locked as it is likely intended to be but not so much inside a bag like I want to do.

I just dont understand the point of the gun having a DA function at all then, I mean why not just make it a SAO?

Bill DeShivs · July 15, 2021, 10:33 PM

Just practice decocking the gun while it's unloaded.
Soon, you'll see just how easy it is.

Pistoler0 · July 16, 2021, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarekrow88

I just picked up a new Jericho II (aka Enhanced) and I love it. However I want to carry it hammer down with a round in the chamber. From what I understand that SHOULD be safe given it has a firing pin block safety. Do I have that right?

Unfortunately it does not have a decocker so the only way to carry it hammer down with a live round ready is to carefully lower the hammer down manually. I dont like doing that but its apprently my only option with this gun. I've read and been told that carrying "half-cocked" isnt a great idea given that its actually a safety mechanism and not a mode of carry and it can be a good way to damage your sear if you drop it on the hammer or something hits the hammer hard enough.

Another question I have is: If its not a great idea to carry "half-cocked" why do the decockers on my HK USP 45 and SIG P226 (I think the 226 does anyway) both drop the hammer to half cocked position?

I know my old CZ-75 (Pre-B) doesn't have a firing pin block so I know for a fact its not smart to carry hammer down but is it ok for me to carry it "half-cocked?" If not why does the gun even have the capability to be fired in DA mode other than second strike capability, or is that the only purpose if your DA/SA pistol (with no firing pin block) doesnt have a decocker?

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

Heres a pic of the Jericho II, only gun I own that feels as good in the hand is my CZ-75

https://imgur.com/a/e0DLFTa

I have an EAA Witness Compact DA/SA that I like for carrying appendix.

I carry with one in the chamber, hammer down and safety engaged.

The process to lower the hammer with a round in the chamber is easy:-
As a right hand user I:
- first with the gun in my right hand and a round chambered (hammer is cocked), I point it in a safe direction and disengage the safety.
- I then place the thumb of my left hand in between the cocked hammer and the firing pint, to act as a cushion/block if the hammer is released
- with the hammer so blocked and the gun pointed in a safe direction, place the thumb of the right hand on the hammer and the index finger of the same hand on the trigger.
- depress the trigger and use the thumb of the right hand to slooowly ride the hammer down.
- roll the thumb of the left hand out of the way as the hammer is being lowered to its resting position.
- Lock the safety.

Pistol is decocked and the safety is engaged. Ready to holster it in my AIWB

ferrarif1fan · July 21, 2021, 06:57 AM

Lowering the hammer on a live round is a technique you need to figure out and perfect thru practice. I carried a Beretta 84B .380 for years and thumbed the hammer down quite a number of times. On that pistol, I simply kept a portion of them thumb in front of the rounded upper portion of the hammer as I eased it forward. Also, that pistol had a half cock. There was always the option of capturing the hammer, pulling the trigger, allowing the hammer to go forward just a smidge, then letting go of the trigger. This would allow the half cock notch to catch the hammer.

Bill DeShivs · July 21, 2021, 12:27 PM

Never carry a single action gun on half cock.

Jim Watson · July 21, 2021, 01:07 PM

Or a double action.

Cosmodragoon · July 21, 2021, 01:30 PM

I always carry a double action. I ALWAYS carry with a live round in the chamber. I NEVER carry with a manual safety engaged. Double action should provide enough safety at the trigger level. Your holster should have reasonable retention and completely cover the trigger guard.

A solid consensus seems to have formed around not carrying on an empty chamber. After studying defensive encounters, it's obvious that having to rack the slide can be a serious impediment to effective defense. Actual defensive encounters can happen very quickly and under very unfavorable conditions. Having to disengage a manual safety can also be an impediment and relative to the DA condition described above, it is totally superfluous.

That said, good holsters work while you are wearing them. Having a loaded gun in a bag can be another story. Off-body carry is generally less helpful in a defensive encounter. You also have to consider the condition and orientation of the bag at any given time. For instance, "purse carry" works best with the holster sewn or otherwise attached to fix orientation.

jackstrawIII · July 21, 2021, 01:52 PM

Not to derail the thread here, but can anyone tell me if the Jericho II is still compatible with CZ 75 mags?

Specifically, would it work with 75 compact (P01) mags, or fullsize 75 mags?

Thanks!

Skarekrow88 · July 22, 2021, 06:23 PM

Quote:

...but can anyone tell me if the Jericho II is still compatible with CZ 75 mags?

Specifically, would it work with 75 compact (P01) mags, or fullsize 75 mags?

CZ-75 mags yes as far as I can tell but I dont think compact mags will. I have 3 tanfoglio mags that work in the Jericho II (only one of which will work in my CZ-75 Pre-B) and a CZ made 18rd SP-01 mag that works in both the Jericho II and my 1982 CZ-75 Pre-B. I haven't tried the supplied 17rd Jericho II mags in a CZ yet though I am sure they will work in a modern CZ-75

JustJake · July 22, 2021, 09:03 PM

DA/SA guns are for tyros, newbies, and nervous ninnies who start sweating at the mere thought of carrying a C&L-ed pistol. In certain circles this phobia is known as "1911-aversion syndrome."

DAO guns are designed for the fumbley-fingered folks who can't thumb-down a hammer or work a decock lever without incurring a ND.

C&L-ed guns are for Pros-in-the Know - i.e., professional pistoleros.

As in many aspects of life, it's best to know your role.

**44 AMP** · July 23, 2021, 10:45 AM

Your definitions amuse me, Jake, what group are you in??

Carl the Floor Walker · July 23, 2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Your definitions amuse me, Jake, what group are you in??

I find them amusing as well. I also am interested in what circle you are in Jake?

wild cat mccane · July 23, 2021, 11:39 AM

humm...okay.

Good question though on the decocker. If you get an translucent or video of different gun actions, you can see decockers are not created or do the same thing.

I personally do not like the CZ decocker. It's a hammer on an inertia pin, the hammer should drop to the firing pin block requiring a full DA pull. Mechanically, if it happens or not isn't all that important, the CZ design leaves the hammer in an odd spot for me.

I can get pretty argumentative. If someone challenged me on the CZ decocker being totally safe, I probably wouldn't fight it one more post.

Meh.

**44 AMP** · July 23, 2021, 04:12 PM

If the CZ bothers you, Walthers will probably scare you to death!

A friend of mine got a Walther PP Super Ultra, 9x18 Ultra. This was a commercial gun imported for sale, not a police trade in. He had the gun for several years and then discovered a serious problem.

My friend has rather small hands, and could not easily reach the safety to decock the gun with the pistol in the usual upright shooting grip. SO, what he would do is lay the gun on its side, which allowed him to reach the lever. He did that for several years, no issues.

THEN, one time he was out shooting with a friend, who asked to try the gun. This fellow was larger with larger hands, and when he applied the safety to decock the gun with the gun held upright in the usual way, THE GUN FIRED!!!

They tried it one more time, and the result was the same, with the gun held normally, decocking it FIRED the gun!!!

They took it to the gunsmith, he was astounded. There were broken parts, which, if the gun was held sideways, lined up and worked properly, but with the gun held upright, did not, and allowed the gun to fire when the safety was put on!!

I mention this, not as a bash against Walther, but just to illustrate the fact that the most unthinkable things ARE POSSIBLE, even if extremely rare, and that ANY system CAN fail. They rarely do, but they can. Never put 100% trust in any mechanical safety system!

Proper safe gunhandling (particularly muzzle control) ALWAYS, ALWAYS MATTERS.

Some designs drop the hammer down to a safety notch and it never hits the firing pin. Other systems lock the firing pin and let the hammer hit it. And there is at least one system that places a block between the hammer and the pin and lets the hammer hit that.

No matter what the design is, ALWAYS point the gun in a safe direction when decocking. ALWAYS!!!

Jim Watson · July 23, 2021, 04:43 PM

And we are warned not to depend on the P38 hammer drop; it drops the hammer full force on the firing pin and depends on a lug on the firing pin against a shoulder in the safety to hold it back. Wear and undependable Untermenschen labor produced some that would not hold. The predecessor, the HP, retracted the firing pin and dropped the hammer against the safety, safer, but variously reported as more expensive and too safe.
Too safe - some of those Walther developmental guns failed safe, that is if anything went wrong, they would not fire at all. The General Staff required that their weapons be capable of being fired, and if the safety wasn't as safe, well, just be careful.

July 14, 2021, 05:34 PM	#1
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	DA/SA pistols carry questions I just picked up a new Jericho II (aka Enhanced) and I love it. However I want to carry it hammer down with a round in the chamber. From what I understand that SHOULD be safe given it has a firing pin block safety. Do I have that right? Unfortunately it does not have a decocker so the only way to carry it hammer down with a live round ready is to carefully lower the hammer down manually. I dont like doing that but its apprently my only option with this gun. I've read and been told that carrying "half-cocked" isnt a great idea given that its actually a safety mechanism and not a mode of carry and it can be a good way to damage your sear if you drop it on the hammer or something hits the hammer hard enough. Another question I have is: If its not a great idea to carry "half-cocked" why do the decockers on my HK USP 45 and SIG P226 (I think the 226 does anyway) both drop the hammer to half cocked position? I know my old CZ-75 (Pre-B) doesn't have a firing pin block so I know for a fact its not smart to carry hammer down but is it ok for me to carry it "half-cocked?" If not why does the gun even have the capability to be fired in DA mode other than second strike capability, or is that the only purpose if your DA/SA pistol (with no firing pin block) doesnt have a decocker? Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. Heres a pic of the Jericho II, only gun I own that feels as good in the hand is my CZ-75 https://imgur.com/a/e0DLFTa __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living"

July 14, 2021, 06:59 PM	#3
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Thanks for the reply, very helpful and also good news. I'll just be extra careful when lowering the hammer and carry it hammer down like I want. __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living"

July 14, 2021, 09:57 PM	#5
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	What Jim said above. Also a couple things to possibly add. 1-Look up the finger roll or whatever the CZ folks call it when they keep their offhand thumb between the hammer and firing pin when lowering the hammer. I find this far safer then the typical “thumb the hammer down” as it’s far easier to have the hammer slip IMO. But I am no expert. 2-ALWAYS decock in a safe direction (even with true decockers). One thing you might want to do is have a sand or dirt bucket to decock into with something like a CZ or similar without a decocker, even a big houseplant. Gives you a safer medium in case of a failure. Take care and shoot safe, Chris __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

July 15, 2021, 10:54 AM	#8
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	I really like the P99 AS decocker. It phsyically catches the striker and then releases the striker from the sear...striker stops when hitting the decocker. So if the decocker decocks, you know it it going to not fire. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

July 15, 2021, 10:33 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	Just practice decocking the gun while it's unloaded. Soon, you'll see just how easy it is. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 14, 2021, 06:24 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Lowering the hammer on what J. Cooper called "selective double action" is a touchy business, but it is a regular operation for the many USPSA Production competitors who prefer the CZ-TZ pattern guns. Hammer all the way down on an inertial firing pin is a safer condition than half cock, it takes a hard fall in just the right orientation to overcome the inertial firing pin's mass and spring, whereas there are more blows that will break a hammer out of half cock. Even your (and my) "pre-B" is safer with the hammer all the way down, as are all those match guns, which generally lack firing pin blocks. And the rules require it, anyhow; a CZ has a long reach to the trigger and half cock would be a distinct competitive advantage. The HK and Sig with mechanical decocking to what looks like half cock are designed that way and have firing pin blocks. Sig has warned that easing the hammer down with trigger and thumb can override the internal safeties. Follow directions.

July 14, 2021, 07:16 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The other side of that is that you don't have to lower the hammer very often. Load, decock, holster, and go. When you return, stow the gun as is, no need to unload and reload every day, only after you shoot, clean and reload. If you have children about, use a lockbox.

July 15, 2021, 12:50 AM	#7
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	I prefer a decocker but I've safely lowered the hammers on revolvers and DA/SA semi-autos more times than I could guess. Practice technique on an empty chamber until you have it down.

July 15, 2021, 11:36 AM	#9
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	If you can't figure out how to carry it ... ... A DA Revolver would be my solution to this dilemma ! Does the owner's manual give any insight as to a safe way ? Gary

July 15, 2021, 02:02 PM	#10
adamBomb Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2015 Location: coastal NC Posts: 645	I've lowered the hammer a lot but I was always at a range aiming down range when I did it just in case. I would not do it at home. If that's how you want to carry I would find something that meets your needs (ie beretta, hk, etc.). I love carrying a gun with hammer down so I get why you want it but carry the gun how its meant to be carried. I am not sure that gun is meant to be carried hammer down or it would have a decocker.

July 21, 2021, 06:57 AM	#14
ferrarif1fan Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 118	Lowering the hammer on a live round is a technique you need to figure out and perfect thru practice. I carried a Beretta 84B .380 for years and thumbed the hammer down quite a number of times. On that pistol, I simply kept a portion of them thumb in front of the rounded upper portion of the hammer as I eased it forward. Also, that pistol had a half cock. There was always the option of capturing the hammer, pulling the trigger, allowing the hammer to go forward just a smidge, then letting go of the trigger. This would allow the half cock notch to catch the hammer.

July 21, 2021, 12:27 PM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	Never carry a single action gun on half cock. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 21, 2021, 01:07 PM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Or a double action.

July 21, 2021, 01:30 PM	#17
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	I always carry a double action. I ALWAYS carry with a live round in the chamber. I NEVER carry with a manual safety engaged. Double action should provide enough safety at the trigger level. Your holster should have reasonable retention and completely cover the trigger guard. A solid consensus seems to have formed around not carrying on an empty chamber. After studying defensive encounters, it's obvious that having to rack the slide can be a serious impediment to effective defense. Actual defensive encounters can happen very quickly and under very unfavorable conditions. Having to disengage a manual safety can also be an impediment and relative to the DA condition described above, it is totally superfluous. That said, good holsters work while you are wearing them. Having a loaded gun in a bag can be another story. Off-body carry is generally less helpful in a defensive encounter. You also have to consider the condition and orientation of the bag at any given time. For instance, "purse carry" works best with the holster sewn or otherwise attached to fix orientation.

July 21, 2021, 01:52 PM	#18
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	Not to derail the thread here, but can anyone tell me if the Jericho II is still compatible with CZ 75 mags? Specifically, would it work with 75 compact (P01) mags, or fullsize 75 mags? Thanks! __________________ In God we trust.

July 22, 2021, 09:03 PM	#20
JustJake Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2020 Posts: 497	DA/SA guns are for tyros, newbies, and nervous ninnies who start sweating at the mere thought of carrying a C&L-ed pistol. In certain circles this phobia is known as "1911-aversion syndrome." DAO guns are designed for the fumbley-fingered folks who can't thumb-down a hammer or work a decock lever without incurring a ND. C&L-ed guns are for Pros-in-the Know - i.e., professional pistoleros. As in many aspects of life, it's best to know your role. __________________ I use the Jake Brake every chance I get. Don't care if it annoys you. Hear me now?!

July 23, 2021, 10:45 AM	#21
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Your definitions amuse me, Jake, what group are you in?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 23, 2021, 11:39 AM	#23
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	humm...okay. Good question though on the decocker. If you get an translucent or video of different gun actions, you can see decockers are not created or do the same thing. I personally do not like the CZ decocker. It's a hammer on an inertia pin, the hammer should drop to the firing pin block requiring a full DA pull. Mechanically, if it happens or not isn't all that important, the CZ design leaves the hammer in an odd spot for me. I can get pretty argumentative. If someone challenged me on the CZ decocker being totally safe, I probably wouldn't fight it one more post. Meh. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

July 23, 2021, 04:12 PM	#24
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	If the CZ bothers you, Walthers will probably scare you to death! A friend of mine got a Walther PP Super Ultra, 9x18 Ultra. This was a commercial gun imported for sale, not a police trade in. He had the gun for several years and then discovered a serious problem. My friend has rather small hands, and could not easily reach the safety to decock the gun with the pistol in the usual upright shooting grip. SO, what he would do is lay the gun on its side, which allowed him to reach the lever. He did that for several years, no issues. THEN, one time he was out shooting with a friend, who asked to try the gun. This fellow was larger with larger hands, and when he applied the safety to decock the gun with the gun held upright in the usual way, THE GUN FIRED!!! They tried it one more time, and the result was the same, with the gun held normally, decocking it FIRED the gun!!! They took it to the gunsmith, he was astounded. There were broken parts, which, if the gun was held sideways, lined up and worked properly, but with the gun held upright, did not, and allowed the gun to fire when the safety was put on!! I mention this, not as a bash against Walther, but just to illustrate the fact that the most unthinkable things ARE POSSIBLE, even if extremely rare, and that ANY system CAN fail. They rarely do, but they can. Never put 100% trust in any mechanical safety system! Proper safe gunhandling (particularly muzzle control) ALWAYS, ALWAYS MATTERS. Some designs drop the hammer down to a safety notch and it never hits the firing pin. Other systems lock the firing pin and let the hammer hit it. And there is at least one system that places a block between the hammer and the pin and lets the hammer hit that. No matter what the design is, ALWAYS point the gun in a safe direction when decocking. ALWAYS!!! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 23, 2021, 04:43 PM	#25
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	And we are warned not to depend on the P38 hammer drop; it drops the hammer full force on the firing pin and depends on a lug on the firing pin against a shoulder in the safety to hold it back. Wear and undependable Untermenschen labor produced some that would not hold. The predecessor, the HP, retracted the firing pin and dropped the hammer against the safety, safer, but variously reported as more expensive and too safe. Too safe - some of those Walther developmental guns failed safe, that is if anything went wrong, they would not fire at all. The General Staff required that their weapons be capable of being fired, and if the safety wasn't as safe, well, just be careful.