Comparison of battle rifles AR-15, AK, FAL?

atmow · October 16, 1998, 02:21 PM

Three different rifles, three different rounds, three different designs. What do you suggest for the best choice in military battle rifles (considering the function and ranges important to military ground operations). If you had country, gentlemen, what's your choice?

Adam

Noel · October 16, 1998, 02:57 PM

Well, if I had a country there would be a lot of people in trouble, but..

I have two of these and have used them a lot. The AR is light and the ammo is light. The AK style is cheap and not very handy to operate, reliable and has a pretty good compromise round.

The FAL style has a good round and is user friendly, reliable but heavier.

I say the FAL. I don't like .22 bullets for serious work and the AK style is not much lighter than the FAL so does not have a real advantage over that weapon.

Noel

Kodiac · October 16, 1998, 03:40 PM

If I had my own country - and had to pick a battle rifle for my troops? What a fun topic! Let my head swell for a moment here... Ah, I'm feeling EPIC enough now... Stand back:
Soldiers get the HK G36K, one out of each squad gets the HK G36 with the longer heavy barrel and the twin drum mags for fire support duty while again one out of each squad get the new HK 20MM/.223 over under SMART GUN system (thats with the 20MM on top and the HE rounds that explode at the range YOU choose). For my SPEC WARRIORS I'ld give them the FN P-90. I'ld also use South African artillery, US MLRS's, French Rafales, and Russian Mig 29s and SU-27s loaded with AAARM, AMRAAMS and AIM-9Xs. Oh, and Isreali Merkava main battle tanks - outfitted with turbine engines maybe, but first I'ld have to conduct official trials, and have a review board. Maybe a few hundred FIRE ANT anti Tank Robots just for fun. I'll save the rest for other posts 8-)

[This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited 10-16-98).]

Harry Humphries · October 17, 1998, 12:45 PM

Hi Guys,

Atmow, as I understand the question, you have asked for a choice of three different military battle rifles (not assault rifles), each of different design,( make?) and three different cartridges of different caliber and/or case length.

Putting aside the "sex appeal factor" and approaching the practical aspects of such a complex question, let me try the answer.

• Understanding that a riflemen, not the sniper, will rarely, if ever, open fire on a target much beyond 200 to 300 meters, we need to concentrate on those shooting systems that operate well within those ranges. 800 to 1,000 meter shooters are not what we're talking about here.

• Understanding also that the introduction of the auto select on the AR 15 has absolutely destroyed the concept of the well aimed shot - the back bone of crack infantry, we need to down play cycle rate or spray and pray power. Concentrate on reliable and accurate sighting systems.

• Man pack basic load is very important so weight factor VS. lethality of the ammunition and weapon is an essential consideration - to a point.

• Accuracy is a given as is field friendlyness and ally, NATO?, compatibility.

Given the above considerations, there are a heck of a lot of battle rifles in the world today that would fit the bill so my apologies to the deserving manufacturers that are not mentioned.

The battle rifles of my choice, in order of preference, are:

• H&K G3 series which utilizes the well proven roller-locked system of delayed blow back.
• More specifically the G3AZF which has a removable 4 power telescoped sight.
• Chambered in 7.62 X 51
• Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .978

• FN FALvery reliable gas operated is slightly lighter than G3 series with full stock.
• Chambered in 7.62 X 51
• Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .948

• GALIL AR (SAR)
• Chambered in 7.62 X 51
• Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .964

The cartridges of choice in order of preference are:

• 7.62 X 51 in Semi Armor Piercing (Semi AP) or Duplex
• 7.62 X 39 ball.
• 556 X 45

danbrew · October 27, 1998, 07:19 PM

Harry, just as a matter of curiosity, I'd love to know how you figured out the hit probabilities.

danbrew :->

October 16, 1998, 02:21 PM	#1
atmow Junior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Posts: 1	Three different rifles, three different rounds, three different designs. What do you suggest for the best choice in military battle rifles (considering the function and ranges important to military ground operations). If you had country, gentlemen, what's your choice? Adam

October 16, 1998, 02:57 PM	#2
Noel Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Posts: 91	Well, if I had a country there would be a lot of people in trouble, but.. I have two of these and have used them a lot. The AR is light and the ammo is light. The AK style is cheap and not very handy to operate, reliable and has a pretty good compromise round. The FAL style has a good round and is user friendly, reliable but heavier. I say the FAL. I don't like .22 bullets for serious work and the AK style is not much lighter than the FAL so does not have a real advantage over that weapon. Noel

October 16, 1998, 03:40 PM	#3
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	If I had my own country - and had to pick a battle rifle for my troops? What a fun topic! Let my head swell for a moment here... Ah, I'm feeling EPIC enough now... Stand back: Soldiers get the HK G36K, one out of each squad gets the HK G36 with the longer heavy barrel and the twin drum mags for fire support duty while again one out of each squad get the new HK 20MM/.223 over under SMART GUN system (thats with the 20MM on top and the HE rounds that explode at the range YOU choose). For my SPEC WARRIORS I'ld give them the FN P-90. I'ld also use South African artillery, US MLRS's, French Rafales, and Russian Mig 29s and SU-27s loaded with AAARM, AMRAAMS and AIM-9Xs. Oh, and Isreali Merkava main battle tanks - outfitted with turbine engines maybe, but first I'ld have to conduct official trials, and have a review board. Maybe a few hundred FIRE ANT anti Tank Robots just for fun. I'll save the rest for other posts 8-) [This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited 10-16-98).]

October 17, 1998, 12:45 PM	#4
Harry Humphries Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA Posts: 59	Hi Guys, Atmow, as I understand the question, you have asked for a choice of three different military battle rifles (not assault rifles), each of different design,( make?) and three different cartridges of different caliber and/or case length. Putting aside the "sex appeal factor" and approaching the practical aspects of such a complex question, let me try the answer. • Understanding that a riflemen, not the sniper, will rarely, if ever, open fire on a target much beyond 200 to 300 meters, we need to concentrate on those shooting systems that operate well within those ranges. 800 to 1,000 meter shooters are not what we're talking about here. • Understanding also that the introduction of the auto select on the AR 15 has absolutely destroyed the concept of the well aimed shot - the back bone of crack infantry, we need to down play cycle rate or spray and pray power. Concentrate on reliable and accurate sighting systems. • Man pack basic load is very important so weight factor VS. lethality of the ammunition and weapon is an essential consideration - to a point. • Accuracy is a given as is field friendlyness and ally, NATO?, compatibility. Given the above considerations, there are a heck of a lot of battle rifles in the world today that would fit the bill so my apologies to the deserving manufacturers that are not mentioned. The battle rifles of my choice, in order of preference, are: • H&K G3 series which utilizes the well proven roller-locked system of delayed blow back. • More specifically the G3AZF which has a removable 4 power telescoped sight. • Chambered in 7.62 X 51 • Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .978 • FN FALvery reliable gas operated is slightly lighter than G3 series with full stock. • Chambered in 7.62 X 51 • Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .948 • GALIL AR (SAR) • Chambered in 7.62 X 51 • Hit probability on a body at 300 meters is .964 The cartridges of choice in order of preference are: • 7.62 X 51 in Semi Armor Piercing (Semi AP) or Duplex • 7.62 X 39 ball. • 556 X 45

October 27, 1998, 07:19 PM	#5
danbrew Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	Harry, just as a matter of curiosity, I'd love to know how you figured out the hit probabilities. danbrew :->