Recommendations for first chronograph

tarheelshooter · June 29, 2007, 10:43 PM

I would like to get some input from you guys on a new chronograph.Are there any specific features I should look for or stay away from and will I need more accessories with a basic chrono?This will be mainly used for checking consistency of rifle loads,but I am sure I will eventually use it for pistols also.I have not done much research on these yet,because I wanted a little guidance from all of you.I would like to stay under $300,but do not mind spending a little more for quality items .Thanks in advance.

armedandsafe · June 29, 2007, 11:31 PM

I have been using my Shooting Chrony ( http://shootingchrony.com/ ) for many years, now. I can't remember if I bought it in '96 or '95. Only occasionaly do I wish I had the remote readout, because the sun happens to be at my back and makes the screen hard to read.

I designed and built chronographs for testing certain military missiles in my youth. Does anybody remember having to repair wire screens after each shot?

When the silicon Nixie tubes came out, I designed one which worked on magnetic disturbance rather than window screens. Worked great for anything larger in diameter than about 2.5 inches. Since our smallest projectile was about 4 inches in diameter, we were happy.

ETA: Make sure you have a good, solid tripod, not some flimsy $10.00 one.

Pops

Wildalaska · June 30, 2007, 12:04 AM

$300?

Look at the Oehlers

WildthebestAlaska

Peter M. Eick · June 30, 2007, 07:39 AM

Oehler stopped making hobby chrono's if I understand the situation correctly. Thus the 35p is no longer made. He is supporting them but he cannot get parts for the printers any more.

To bad, I love mine.

FatWhiteMan · June 30, 2007, 07:52 AM

Ditto armedandsafe. Go with the Shooting Chrony. If you want a high end later fine but this one is a great starter. For well under your budget, you can get a nice one with a remote readout and a printer.

**Unclenick** · June 30, 2007, 08:06 AM

Get the CED Millenium M2. I own its predicessor model 1 version and an Oehler 35P. My dad owns an older Chrony. The Oehler and the CED agree so closely that they trade numbers to within 5 fps depending which one you put in front of the the other. The Chrony, firing a .308, reads 2700 fps when these other two read 2500 fps. I have little faith in short screen spacing. I have 4 ft spacing set up with both of the other instruments. The CED comes with 2 ft spacing standard, and 4ft is an option used mainly for archery. I just get a warmer and fuzzier feeling from it, so I got that for bullets. I can't say I see more than a couple of ft/s difference in readings with it.

RSI's claims the German military evaluated chronographs for their armorers in a Doppler radar lab that continuously measured bullet velocity from the moment they cleared the muzzle, so they knew what it was from one screen to the next. That kind of measurement can be made accurate to a small fraction of a ft/sec. They found that of all commercial chronographs available at the time, only the Oehler and the CED matched the radar result closely, with the CED actually beating the Oehler by a small number (0.1%). This was done with uniform artificial lighting for all the chronographs tested, so changing light was not responsible for the differences observed.

By the way, the CED has a powered IR sky screen kit available to replace diffusers for indoor use and can be used outdoors with batteries to insure stable illumination. The only other unit I am aware of with that is the $730 Kurtzzeit PVM-21 sold by NECO (German made, but after the lab tests were conducted) which has IR built-in as its only light source. It resolves 0.1 ft/s, but I don't recall its claimed absolute accuracy justifies that last decimal place of resolution? It does run a 16 MHz clock, instead of the usual 4 MHz, and has a snazzy IR remote control. Not too many individuals will shell out the price, though. More likely to be a club-type purchase.

Wildalaska · June 30, 2007, 09:54 AM

I have a CED I also

WildiwishihadaIIAlaska

Stargazer · June 30, 2007, 06:38 PM

I just got myself a PACT XP1 with the IR screen option. $170 from the factory. The IR screens work very well when the normal screens do not. See the PACT post from a few days ago.

WESHOOT2 · July 1, 2007, 10:36 AM

Most highly recommend getting one with brains separate from skyscreens.

Because you will shoot it (shot my PACT One screens 5 of six one day; 45 Colt Stupid for those asking -- had my eyes closed)

Wildalaska · July 1, 2007, 12:11 PM

New thread...What is the most effective round for killing your chronograph?

WildilovetheraininAlaskaAlaska

Stargazer · July 1, 2007, 01:02 PM

Here's what a 7.62x25mm will do to a chronograph. Of course "I" did not do it, my buddy did. Serously, he did it, I do not even own a 7.62x25mm pistol. I banned him from ever shooting over any of my Chrongraphs and he vowed never to do it again too. He paid for his half of it so all is well. There's hardly anything left to salvage on this one.

Hey, he sure centered the shot well!

**Shane Tuttle** · July 1, 2007, 01:31 PM

IIRC, if you go with the Shooting Chrony, you can buy the alpha to get started. If you like the way it works but want more features, it can easily be upgraded to the beta or gamma. If you think you won't like it at all, then you aren't out several hundred bucks and could sell it to get some of your money back.

It may be the long way around on buying something cheaper instead up just getting the more expensive setup, but I thought this might be a good way to go for a first time buyer of a chronograph...

My $.02...

StrikeEagle · July 2, 2007, 07:31 AM

I'd suggest the Shooting Chrony as well. If all you want is to check velocities once in a while, the very most basic model will do.

I have had one since they first came out... works fine.

mousegun · July 2, 2007, 12:12 PM

F1 Chrony Master

The F1 is often on sale at Midway and it's upgradeable to the Alpha by making a simple pushbutton switch from Radio Shack parts. Or you can buy the switch from Chrony. The F1 is essentially an Alpha with no switch.

Keep a black marker handy to blacken the bullets. Improves reliability by reducing reflected ambient light on the bullet and increases contrast against the sky or diffusers. Any chronograph likes it, but the Chrony is especially grateful.

The Chrony is equivalent to Lee reloading gear in the chronograph world. You get what you pay for, but it's perfectly adequate if you have a little patience and work within its limitations, which aren't many.

As far as accuracy is concerned, keep a .22 rifle handy and run a string of standard velocity rounds over the chronograph. The numbers will tell you right now if the instrument is OK.

**Unclenick** · July 2, 2007, 12:48 PM

How did you calibrate your .22 LR?

k8do · July 2, 2007, 04:25 PM

Brand new, still in shipping box, Chrony Beta Master, just delivered by UPS two hours ago from Cabella... Gawd I love toys!

denny

Thirties · July 3, 2007, 10:41 AM

No need to think of a cheap "entry level" thing. You can buy a good one in the $200-$300 range, and keep it forever.

I bought a PACT chrono, and I love it. The computer/printer unit sits on the bench. If you shoot the "eyes" they are $5 each. There are other good brands. But skip the ones that have all the brains in a box that you are shooting over -- spells trouble.

One way to ensure you don't shoot your device, is to set it up with a piece of cardboard or corrugated board taped to the rear "triangle", and shoot at that for your readings.

Many people try to set up their chrono aligned with a paper target 10, 15, 25 yards downrange. This is a pain in the rear to do, and leads to shooting the darn chrono.

Take the extra time to shoot for data, then shoot to test accuracy.

Wildalaska · July 3, 2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Many people try to set up their chrono aligned with a paper target 10, 15, 25 yards downrange. This is a pain in the rear to do, and leads to shooting the darn chrono.

I do it at 100 yards...and havent shot a chrono...

WildyetAlaska

rwilson452 · July 3, 2007, 12:15 PM

one thing to remember about using a chrono is sight height. especially when using a scoped rifle. the bullet path will be lower than your sight picture at short distances.

tarheelshooter · July 7, 2007, 03:33 PM

Sorry about not responding until now,but I just got back home from the Hospital after some surgery.I appreciate all the information you have given me so far,and I should have plenty of time to research this during recovery.I like some of the ideas about getting one that can be upgraded later.Thanks again for all the responses.

Stargazer · July 8, 2007, 08:57 PM

My new PACT XP1 with IR screen option just keeps amazing me. This AM I took it out and I was in the sun which was at a very low angle directly shining on the side of the sensors. I thought I might have to shade that side but nope, it never missed a read the entire session. I was chronographing my 35 + year old Sheridan .20 caliber pellet rifle. Tested each pump for a 5 shot string to get an average. I found a few things out about it which will help down the road. After 4-5 pumps the increase decreases dramatically for the next pumps. After 7 pumps the 8th one only added about 20-25 FPS, not worth the effort IMO. I also found that 4 pumps gave the most consistent readings with a SD of about 1.4 after a 5 shot string. 4 pumps averaged 490 FPS. 8 pumps got it to 616 FPS but 7 was already at 595 FPS.

The PACT is on sale right now with the Factory, XP1 with IR screen option and I have tested the IR screens too and they work even in the dark or with no sun or in any lighting. $170 from the Factory.

PACT Factory order page, XP1 with IR Detect

This is only a suggestion/report from a Happy Camper, not associated with PACT in any way except being a Happy Customer.

June 29, 2007, 10:43 PM	#1
tarheelshooter Member Join Date: December 19, 2006 Location: NC Posts: 28	Recommendations for first chronograph I would like to get some input from you guys on a new chronograph.Are there any specific features I should look for or stay away from and will I need more accessories with a basic chrono?This will be mainly used for checking consistency of rifle loads,but I am sure I will eventually use it for pistols also.I have not done much research on these yet,because I wanted a little guidance from all of you.I would like to stay under $300,but do not mind spending a little more for quality items .Thanks in advance.

June 29, 2007, 11:31 PM	#2
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	I have been using my Shooting Chrony ( http://shootingchrony.com/ ) for many years, now. I can't remember if I bought it in '96 or '95. Only occasionaly do I wish I had the remote readout, because the sun happens to be at my back and makes the screen hard to read. I designed and built chronographs for testing certain military missiles in my youth. Does anybody remember having to repair wire screens after each shot? When the silicon Nixie tubes came out, I designed one which worked on magnetic disturbance rather than window screens. Worked great for anything larger in diameter than about 2.5 inches. Since our smallest projectile was about 4 inches in diameter, we were happy. ETA: Make sure you have a good, solid tripod, not some flimsy $10.00 one. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

June 30, 2007, 07:39 AM	#4
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Oehler stopped making hobby chrono's if I understand the situation correctly. Thus the 35p is no longer made. He is supporting them but he cannot get parts for the printers any more. To bad, I love mine. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

June 30, 2007, 08:06 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Get the CED Millenium M2. I own its predicessor model 1 version and an Oehler 35P. My dad owns an older Chrony. The Oehler and the CED agree so closely that they trade numbers to within 5 fps depending which one you put in front of the the other. The Chrony, firing a .308, reads 2700 fps when these other two read 2500 fps. I have little faith in short screen spacing. I have 4 ft spacing set up with both of the other instruments. The CED comes with 2 ft spacing standard, and 4ft is an option used mainly for archery. I just get a warmer and fuzzier feeling from it, so I got that for bullets. I can't say I see more than a couple of ft/s difference in readings with it. RSI's claims the German military evaluated chronographs for their armorers in a Doppler radar lab that continuously measured bullet velocity from the moment they cleared the muzzle, so they knew what it was from one screen to the next. That kind of measurement can be made accurate to a small fraction of a ft/sec. They found that of all commercial chronographs available at the time, only the Oehler and the CED matched the radar result closely, with the CED actually beating the Oehler by a small number (0.1%). This was done with uniform artificial lighting for all the chronographs tested, so changing light was not responsible for the differences observed. By the way, the CED has a powered IR sky screen kit available to replace diffusers for indoor use and can be used outdoors with batteries to insure stable illumination. The only other unit I am aware of with that is the $730 Kurtzzeit PVM-21 sold by NECO (German made, but after the lab tests were conducted) which has IR built-in as its only light source. It resolves 0.1 ft/s, but I don't recall its claimed absolute accuracy justifies that last decimal place of resolution? It does run a 16 MHz clock, instead of the usual 4 MHz, and has a snazzy IR remote control. Not too many individuals will shell out the price, though. More likely to be a club-type purchase. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 30, 2007, 06:38 PM	#8
Stargazer Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 506	I just got myself a PACT XP1 with the IR screen option. $170 from the factory. The IR screens work very well when the normal screens do not. See the PACT post from a few days ago. __________________ 5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down. M70 Web Page

June 30, 2007, 12:04 AM	#3
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	$300? Look at the Oehlers WildthebestAlaska

June 30, 2007, 07:52 AM	#5
FatWhiteMan Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Appalachia Posts: 96	Ditto armedandsafe. Go with the Shooting Chrony. If you want a high end later fine but this one is a great starter. For well under your budget, you can get a nice one with a remote readout and a printer.

June 30, 2007, 09:54 AM	#7
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I have a CED I also WildiwishihadaIIAlaska

July 1, 2007, 10:36 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	whichever is chosen (how'dya like that grammer, ay?) Most highly recommend getting one with brains separate from skyscreens. Because you will shoot it (shot my PACT One screens 5 of six one day; 45 Colt Stupid for those asking -- had my eyes closed) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 1, 2007, 12:11 PM	#10
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	New thread...What is the most effective round for killing your chronograph? WildilovetheraininAlaskaAlaska

July 1, 2007, 01:02 PM	#11
Stargazer Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 506	Here's what a 7.62x25mm will do to a chronograph. Of course "I" did not do it, my buddy did. Serously, he did it, I do not even own a 7.62x25mm pistol. I banned him from ever shooting over any of my Chrongraphs and he vowed never to do it again too. He paid for his half of it so all is well. There's hardly anything left to salvage on this one. Hey, he sure centered the shot well! __________________ 5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down. M70 Web Page

July 1, 2007, 01:31 PM	#12
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	IIRC, if you go with the Shooting Chrony, you can buy the alpha to get started. If you like the way it works but want more features, it can easily be upgraded to the beta or gamma. If you think you won't like it at all, then you aren't out several hundred bucks and could sell it to get some of your money back. It may be the long way around on buying something cheaper instead up just getting the more expensive setup, but I thought this might be a good way to go for a first time buyer of a chronograph... My $.02... __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

July 2, 2007, 07:31 AM	#13
StrikeEagle Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2004 Posts: 264	I'd suggest the Shooting Chrony as well. If all you want is to check velocities once in a while, the very most basic model will do. I have had one since they first came out... works fine.

July 2, 2007, 12:12 PM	#14
mousegun Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 42	F1 Chrony Master The F1 is often on sale at Midway and it's upgradeable to the Alpha by making a simple pushbutton switch from Radio Shack parts. Or you can buy the switch from Chrony. The F1 is essentially an Alpha with no switch. Keep a black marker handy to blacken the bullets. Improves reliability by reducing reflected ambient light on the bullet and increases contrast against the sky or diffusers. Any chronograph likes it, but the Chrony is especially grateful. The Chrony is equivalent to Lee reloading gear in the chronograph world. You get what you pay for, but it's perfectly adequate if you have a little patience and work within its limitations, which aren't many. As far as accuracy is concerned, keep a .22 rifle handy and run a string of standard velocity rounds over the chronograph. The numbers will tell you right now if the instrument is OK. __________________ (o)(-) ----0000--(..)--0000----

July 2, 2007, 12:48 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	How did you calibrate your .22 LR? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 2, 2007, 04:25 PM	#16
k8do Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 102	Brand new, still in shipping box, Chrony Beta Master, just delivered by UPS two hours ago from Cabella... Gawd I love toys! denny

July 3, 2007, 10:41 AM	#17
Thirties Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears Posts: 561	You first one can be a keeper . . . No need to think of a cheap "entry level" thing. You can buy a good one in the $200-$300 range, and keep it forever. I bought a PACT chrono, and I love it. The computer/printer unit sits on the bench. If you shoot the "eyes" they are $5 each. There are other good brands. But skip the ones that have all the brains in a box that you are shooting over -- spells trouble. One way to ensure you don't shoot your device, is to set it up with a piece of cardboard or corrugated board taped to the rear "triangle", and shoot at that for your readings. Many people try to set up their chrono aligned with a paper target 10, 15, 25 yards downrange. This is a pain in the rear to do, and leads to shooting the darn chrono. Take the extra time to shoot for data, then shoot to test accuracy.

July 3, 2007, 12:15 PM	#19
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	one thing to remember about using a chrono is sight height. especially when using a scoped rifle. the bullet path will be lower than your sight picture at short distances.

July 7, 2007, 03:33 PM	#20
tarheelshooter Member Join Date: December 19, 2006 Location: NC Posts: 28	Thanks for the info Sorry about not responding until now,but I just got back home from the Hospital after some surgery.I appreciate all the information you have given me so far,and I should have plenty of time to research this during recovery.I like some of the ideas about getting one that can be upgraded later.Thanks again for all the responses.

July 8, 2007, 08:57 PM	#21
Stargazer Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 506	My new PACT XP1 with IR screen option just keeps amazing me. This AM I took it out and I was in the sun which was at a very low angle directly shining on the side of the sensors. I thought I might have to shade that side but nope, it never missed a read the entire session. I was chronographing my 35 + year old Sheridan .20 caliber pellet rifle. Tested each pump for a 5 shot string to get an average. I found a few things out about it which will help down the road. After 4-5 pumps the increase decreases dramatically for the next pumps. After 7 pumps the 8th one only added about 20-25 FPS, not worth the effort IMO. I also found that 4 pumps gave the most consistent readings with a SD of about 1.4 after a 5 shot string. 4 pumps averaged 490 FPS. 8 pumps got it to 616 FPS but 7 was already at 595 FPS. The PACT is on sale right now with the Factory, XP1 with IR screen option and I have tested the IR screens too and they work even in the dark or with no sun or in any lighting. $170 from the Factory. PACT Factory order page, XP1 with IR Detect This is only a suggestion/report from a Happy Camper, not associated with PACT in any way except being a Happy Customer. __________________ 5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down. M70 Web Page