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Old April 2, 2009, 05:33 AM   #126
Sam06
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JR Burke said:
Quote:
I have been able to get lucky finding some stuff at some small ma and pa shops. There about the only places your going to find anything. Try the small shops, and good luck.
That is what i have found also. I like the small shops out in the country over the big box down town places.

If you are in NC try; Eds Gunshop in Vass.

Yea gunBroker has them but look at the prices; $50 for 1000? That is insane add $15 for shipping. I saw some as high as $70 a 1000??? No thanks that is way too much
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=126140829
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Old April 2, 2009, 07:57 AM   #127
Mello2u
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Natchez Shooters Supplies

Quote:
GuitarXM

Talk about primers...lol
I can't even get rifle brass for my 308...

I recently got some primers of http://www.natchezss.com
Those were cci #200 rifle primers
Unfortunately for me I live in Georgia. Natchez Shooters Supplies tells me they can not sell to individuals in Georgia and a couple of other states. The person on the phone said that they are restricted to selling to dealers only in a few states including Georgia.

I want to some large rifle primers. I am not willing to pay $75 or more for a 1000 from an auction site.
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Old April 2, 2009, 08:10 AM   #128
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Gouging

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longranger

It's nothing more than gouging, look at Midway and Graf and Sons, there prices have not changed albeit they are out of everything.Orders will be filled eventually with no price increases.
I do not think you mean gouging. How can the places you mentioned gouge without raising prices?

Gouging means to raise prices on something in an unfair or unreasonable manner. The term gouging is often misused and the normal operation of capitalism in responding to supply and demand is sometimes seen or reacted to as gouging when it is not.

Increased prices could be beneficial, if manufacturers got twice or three times as much profit from their sale of primers do you think they would increase their production? But if no one raises prices then there is no increased production and some consumers buy more than they would if prices actually went up; so supply is less for others.

Example, someone is willing to spend $100 on primers. If they cost $25 per 1000, he buys 4000 primers. If they cost $50 per 1000 he buys 2000. In the second instance that leave 2000 primers on the shelf for someone else to buy.

Without indications that production has changed, I think what is going on is that the primers are sitting on consumers' shelves, in basements and rooms rather than on retailers' shelves.

Is it hoarding? That is another discussion.
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Old April 2, 2009, 08:26 AM   #129
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There is probably a few things driving the shortage of ammo and components, and even reloading equipment. Some that come to mind:

government orders

people who normally might buy a box or two at a time buying 2 or 3 instead, either because they figure it won't hurt to have some extra, or they are doing more shooting than usual.

people who bought new guns getting ammo for them.

people who never owned guns before buying guns and ammo.

people who have started reloading for the because of the high price of new ammo.
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Old April 2, 2009, 10:35 AM   #130
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I am in east central Florida and have a table at the Melbourne Gun Show (This weekend April4-5).
I am across the isle from Space Coast Bullets (formerly John's Cast Bullets one of the nation's best lead bullet makers)

Calvin of Space Coast (The guy that owns it with Richard and who ran John's for all those years) told me early 2008 the major primer makers sent out memos there would be no civilian primers until further notice because of military demands.
There has been no notice rescinding that.

Calvin also told me this past Sunday they have standing orders for primers and they come in and then he calls to find out what he will pay because the price will have changed from the day it actually was shipped.

How much will they be at the gun show?
If they get any at all and if they get more than they have to have to load their ammo to sell he will know when it gets unpacked and he calls to see what they want in payment and not a moment before.

That is from the horses mouth reality and the tin hat people can just whine all they want but I know these people and while they are in business they have always been fair and honest in what is up on this stuff.

I find it funny some of our freedom loving free market crowd is all but demanding price regulation on ammo which is no more than socialism in the gun sport.

If you do not like the price, don't buy it.

That said, I am a hobbyist with one small table. I try and make a full order box when I need primers and yes I wished I had looked at the business side and ordered 500K of them but I only get what I need and extra to fill out the order and sell the extra at the gun show.

What will I be asking for the LP, SRM and LR primers? I will see what the other big dealers ask and price them under but in a free market economy excuse me if I sell them just under the current rate. I will have about 6K of each for sale so I am will do little to ease demand, again just a hobbyist.

If you bought GE stock at $6.00 a share and it jumped to $20.00 a share who here would sell me that stock for $10.00?

Anyone, anyone???

As for Wolf primers I tried them and have switched to them for my 1911 45s and my 223. They are every bit as good as any primer I have tried.
I have not tried the LR in my sniper, wait scratch that, target, yeah target rifles because I am well stocked but I would bet they are as good as the US primers.

I also see how 5K #41 CCI sold for $471.00 plus hazmat and shipping on GB and 5K Wolf SR sold for $400.00 and while some seem to think this is outrageous (as do I) I have to wonder what the new reality is going to be. I remember in 1973 when some said they would drive less and that high priced 60cents gas would end and we would have 35cent gas again.
How did that work out??
What if $50.00 a K is actually a bargain compared to next year.
Get out those crystal balls and fill us in.

Wulfmann
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Old April 2, 2009, 06:58 PM   #131
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Primer question

OK folks. I'm fairly new at reloading and I have a question about primers that hopefully someone can answer. I've been following the exact recipes for reloading according to one of the books whether it is Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, etc. What is the scoop if one recipe calls for WSP and you can't get those but have available CCI 500 instead or vice a versa. Is it fairly safe to use a different primer manufacturer than what is recommended in the load? Any guidance, especially during these times of shortages, would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old April 2, 2009, 07:19 PM   #132
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pgonza,
you can switch up primers of the same type with different manufacturers. (ie. winchester small pistol can replace cci #500 small pistol primers)
However, you can't switch between magnum and regular (non-magnum) primers. Well, you can sometimes, but the magnum primers are more powerful and not recommended at all.
If you switch primer brands, however, you should work up some different loads for different brands, although it rarely makes a noticable diference.
Also, depending on the book you're using, make sure you aren't starting with a maximum powder charge. If the book lists a "max load", try to start around 10% lower and work your way up. Make a few loads at minimum, and then some at tenth grain increments and test them out for accuracy and function, etc.
Hope this helps.
Search around here some more, and you're bound to find some valuable info.


(BTW, I found a bunch of primers last week....again)
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Old April 2, 2009, 07:55 PM   #133
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protectedbyglock,

Thanks for the information. I pretty much had a feeling that you could interchange similar primers between manufacturers but never tried it. Also, I kind of figured that the magnum type primers could not be interchanged with non-magnum. As far as loads are concerned I pretty much stay in the middle of what the grains of powder call for and never load to the top of the scale. I'd rather be safe than push it.

Thanks again,
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Old April 2, 2009, 08:35 PM   #134
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May I clarify then confuse things a bit???

While you can use almost any of the same type primer no matter the brand some are similar others are not at all.
Not as in safe to shoot but as in accuracy and point of aim.

For my 308 loads there is almost no difference if I use Federal or Winchester LR but Remington primers require a new start up from ground zero.

If you have a load worked up in one just try that load in another and see where it lands and how it groups and go from there, not a big deal.

As for magnum or no, actually there is no industry standard on what a magnum is or is not.
Wolf SRM are the same as regular but have a thicker cup while others have the same cup but a hotter solution and Military CCI have both a thicker cup and are hotter than regular magnum (although they do not call them magnum)

Winchester use to label their primers as good for regular or magnum but now sell them as separate primers.

The manuals will usually say if magnum is recommended but using some common sense on start loads you should be able to use either (except the big magnum cases, there you must use magnum and a good hot one).

Wulfmann
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Old April 2, 2009, 09:35 PM   #135
Mello2u
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Wulfmann,

Thanks for the info on what's taking all the supply of primers.

I can only guess that the primer manufacturers probably won't make a large capital investment, in these uncertain economic times, to tool up to increase capacity for what might only be a short term increase in demand.

Sigh . . .

I want some large rifle primers to load my 450 Marlin.
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Old April 3, 2009, 01:46 PM   #136
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Perhaps this will better explain the ammo/primer shortage.....


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D977SAJG0.htm

Associated Press March 29, 2009, 3:00PM ET

Fear of new regs drives gun, ammo shortage

By BEN NEARY

CHEYENNE, Wyo.

Concern that the Obama administration could impose a new ban on some semiautomatic weapons is driving worried gun owners to stockpile ammunition and cartridge reloading components at such a rate that manufacturers can't meet demand.

Attorney General Eric Holder last month suggested that the Obama Administration favors reinstituting a U.S. ban on the sale of assault weapons. President Bill Clinton first signed such a ban into law in 1994, generally blocking some military-style guns with magazines that hold many cartridges. President George Bush had allowed the ban to expire.

"We have heard from all across the country that there is a tremendous shortage of ammunition," said Lawrence Keane, senior vice president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. "We've heard this from the manufacturers, that their customers are calling them trying to get supplies for inventory, and that the manufacturers are going full-bore, pardon the pun."

The Newtown, Conn.-based foundation is a trade organization representing firearms and ammunition manufacturers as well as retail gun shops.

"Semiautomatic rifles are selling at an incredibly brisk pace," said Keane, adding that many manufacturers of semiautomatic rifles and pistols are already so backordered that this year's entire production is already spoken for.

He said the current ammunition shortage followed the increase in gun sales. While the current shortage includes cartridges for popular semiautomatic rifles and pistols that were covered by the Clinton-era weapons ban, it also extends to other common varieties including common revolver cartridges and .22 rimfire cartridges used for hunting or target shooting.

In Wyoming, the run on bullets and reloading components reached such a frenzy that Cheyenne retailer Frontier Arms recently began rationing sales, said Becky Holtz, co-owner of the shop. Holtz said she's also been selling semiautomatic rifles as fast as she can put them on the shelves.

"You know there's something wrong when I've got little old ladies coming in buying 5,000 rounds of .22 shells," Holtz said.

Jere Jordan is general manager Midsouth Shooters Supply in Clarksville, Tenn. -- one of a handful of firms in the country that specializes in mail-order sales of ammunition and reloading components and equipment.

In common with similar supply houses, Midsouth has run out of most ammunition in the calibers commonly used in semiautomatic pistols and popular military rifles. It's also backordered on many other types of cartridges.

"After the election, where you have a change of parties to a more liberal side, I would say I guess the conservatives want to protect what they feel might be taken away from them, either through a tax, or an all-out ban," Jordan said.

Midsouth and other similar dealers say they're also sold out of most varieties of primers used by hobbyists to handload cartridges. Primers are the explosive caps that ignite gunpowder in rifle and pistol cartridges.

Jordan said his company is taking orders for bullets and primers, but isn't sure when they'll be filled.

"The wait? We're not even guessing on the wait anymore," Jordan said. "It's exceeding 60 days."

Keane, of the Shooting Sports Foundation, said there are no national statistics that directly track firearms sales. However, he noted that there's been a sharp rise in the number of instant background checks that the FBI performs each time a person buys a gun at a gun store. Such checks are not required for personal sales, or for gun purchases at gun shows.

The FBI performed more than 4.2 million firearms background checks from November 2008 through this January, according to agency figures. That's an increase of more than 31 percent above the 3.2 million checks the agency performed from November 2007 through January 2008.

Keane said concerns other than the prospect of new federal regulations are also driving gun and ammunition sales. Those include the faltering economy and the potential side-effect of an increase in crime, he said.

"There's a concern about what's happening to the stock market, what's happening with unemployment, what's happening with the tremendous increase in government spending, whether there will be hyperinflation," Keane said.
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Old April 4, 2009, 03:58 PM   #137
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I heard from a guy who knows a guy who dates a girl who's sister once knew a guy who lived in Mexico who says all the primers are getting shipped down to the cartels in Mexico...haha

I have had luck with a few of the little mom and pop shops in my area when it comes to primers, but only pistol primers. Tons of shotshell primers to be had, guessing theres not many shotshell reloaders around.

I cannot wait for the panic to be over so I can get some good quality shooting time in.
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Old April 4, 2009, 10:11 PM   #138
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Primers ???

I have been buying Primers, Brass, Powder and Lead every paycheck for the last 9 months as I did not get them during the last Shortage in the Clinton 90's. Last weekend bought 5000 rounds of lead from Zero Bullet Co. in Cullman Al. Go in the front door with Cash or Credit Card, they will load up your SUV at the back door, all they have in stock. Right now they are running 40Cal 165 GR FMJ Lead. You do have to prepare in ADVANCE. I hope I have enough.....
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Old April 5, 2009, 08:29 AM   #139
hounddawg
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I can get large pistol primers easily enough from either of two local shops. Small pistol and small magnum pistols are scarce although I did find 1000 this week or enough to last me a couple of months.

Question for the hoarders what you consider enough? 5000 primers, 50,000 or 5 million?
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Old April 5, 2009, 10:29 AM   #140
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i just picked up 1k large magnum rifle primers, $23.

at the gun show i just went to they had large rifle for $34.

at a gun shop near by they have the Dillon strips of small pistol, $50 for 500.

i havent seen regular small pistol for a long time.
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Old April 5, 2009, 11:13 PM   #141
vonnieglen
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Adapt

There are a several places online that allow back-ordering primers. When I couldn't find any primers locally at the end of February and very little powder, I back-ordered primers and powder from Cabelas. They started trickling in a box or two at a time a couple of weeks ago. I was down to my last couple hundred pistol primers and had run out of rifle primers.

The situation kind of rattled me so I ordered some more primers last week. Delivery for CCI small pistol primers ordered last week is hopefully the end of April, and small rifle primers I ordered a month ago are now expected at the end of May. When I first ordered... most of the primers were expected within a couple of weeks, but it was nearly a month before they started showing up.

Now that I have enough to hold me over I don't mind being on a list and just waiting. For the present time I think this is the game we now have to live with. Back-order what you are going to need a couple months down the road right now or spend your summer doing something other than loading ammo and shooting.

Last edited by vonnieglen; April 5, 2009 at 11:14 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 6, 2009, 07:58 PM   #142
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I just picked up 2,000 more small pistol and 2,00 small rifle for $31 a tho. I should buy some but I now have several thousand of each. Want me to pick up some?
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Old April 7, 2009, 05:52 PM   #143
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Interesting twist...I was out and about over the weekend..went to Cabelas, Bass Pro, and 4 mom and pop shops, every one of them had at least SP, LP, and SR primers. Mind you they didn't have much but they did have them.

Hoping this is a sign of things to come.
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Old April 7, 2009, 11:55 PM   #144
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I went to 10 different places in the past two days and only found small pistol primers and small magnum pistol primers, so I bought what I could. I also bought some H110, AA #5, 4227, Lil Gun and 700x.
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Old April 8, 2009, 07:13 AM   #145
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I went out and found Primers. They were very expensive at one place($36 a 1000) and not too bad at another (30 a 1000). There was not a lot to choose from though. I could see where they had jacked up the price on some of it due to to demand.

I thought this summed it up pretty good:

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Old April 8, 2009, 02:04 PM   #146
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I checked a couple of local places here in my neck of the woods and did find exactly 2 boxes of Winchester small pistol primers at one shop. They were limiting purchases to 500 primers per customer and the price was $4 per 100. I bought 500 and now my total stock is about 1900 but those will only last about 4 or 5 months. The story is the same everywhere I've been, "no primers and don't know when we'll get more... blah blah blah"
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Old April 8, 2009, 02:39 PM   #147
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I just wish I could find (1) box of 1000. I am just starting out with realoading and I am going to be reloading about 200 rounds a week at the most and I cant even get started cause I cant find primers for loading 9mm and 40sw. I can get Brass, Powder, Bullets, BUT NO PRIMERS... Anyone got any ideas? My Lee Turret Press will be here in a week or so, and I cant even use the stupid thing... Help me guys. Please
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Old April 8, 2009, 02:56 PM   #148
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Dan, What primers are you looking for and what part of the country are you in? I've also noticed if you are phone shopping, nobody has primers. You have to go to the stores. Four or five places I went to over the weekend didn't have any powder or primers until I went to their store.
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Old April 8, 2009, 02:59 PM   #149
James R. Burke
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I do feel sorry for you guys that are just starting out. It is a great hobby or sport to be into, and clean. This is the best forum to belong to, that gives me alot of help just reading the posts. The only thing I can say is just hang in there it will get better. When people feel they have enough or run out of money it will slow up. Hope the price does not go up. In the time being keep checking the small ma and pa shops they have been keeping myself going, and keep checking this forum. Wish I could be more help to you but just hang in there it is a clean and great sport.
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Old April 8, 2009, 03:02 PM   #150
Dan The Sig Man
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I live in Fresno, CA... And I pounded the Pavement today and ALL the stores that are local here have nothing. I am looking for primers to load for 9mm and 40 S&W... I am not sure of the size right yet, cause I dont even have my reloader, but I know that once it comes in about a week, I wont be able to use it. I was told that just a standard small pistol primers would be the ones that I would need. Fresno area is DRY DRY, sucks being in CA that is for sure.

As I said, I dont have a hard time finding 9mm and 40S&W brass or bullets online (For resonable pries) just no primers, and what good is Brass and Bullets with no Primers to start the bang.

James: You are right, I love shooting and have been for YEARS... Just now started thinking about the Reloading so that I can get better Accuracy. I can afford the Ammo price increase, but most Stock ammo shoots like S%&T, and I dont like it. So I want to start loading my own for better IDPA scores and better Range results.
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