Old guy, old powders - Page 2

603Country · February 10, 2018, 10:25 AM

I’ve used Unique since about 1980. Started using 231 about 8 years ago, and added Universal when we had the big shortage. I only load for 38/357 and 9mm, and use an old Lyman 55 for pistol powder throwing.

I recently caught up on reloading the ammo the grandkids shot up. They can sure run through some ammo.

mikejonestkd · February 10, 2018, 11:07 AM

I am another old guy/ old powder shooter. I reload for about 10 different handgun cartridges.

probably 90% of my handgun loads are with Unique, Bulllseye, win 231/ HP-38, and power pistol.

There's nothing wrong with all the great newer powders, but I like to keep it simple.

Northof50 · February 10, 2018, 11:49 AM

I love to read posts telling everyone that Unique is dirty, doesn't meter well, and "xxxx is a better." Means there will be a good supply when I shop for it.

jamaica · February 10, 2018, 12:19 PM

I have used Unique powder for the 44 Spl for many years. It works for the 44 Magnum too. If you are going to reload, I suggest you try some things and experiment until you find something that does well for you. Have fun!

Dufus · February 10, 2018, 01:04 PM

I started hand loading in the early 60s. Back then and up until just a few years ago, I never used a powder that left no residue. I guess by today's standards there were no "clean" powders.

Still, to date, I have only discovered a clean powder that shoots clean in 2 calibers that I have used it in. Both handgun calibers.

Did I stop using all the dirty powders? Not only no, but hell no.

T. O'Heir · February 10, 2018, 01:10 PM

Been using Bullseye for everything except .44 Mag(don't have one) and .357(don't shoot it enough to have bothered working up a load) for eons.
Don't think which powder, new or not, makes a lot of difference if your load is accurate.

Nick_C_S · February 10, 2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

I love to read posts telling everyone that Unique is dirty, doesn't meter well

No propellant is "dirty" if it's used properly. Given enough pressure, they'll all clean up. Unique is no different.

When I refer to Unique as not running so clean, I speak in a context relative to some of its intermediate contemporaries. Power Pistol specifically, can be turned down much further and still run clean. Power Pistol is highly energetic, and ignites easily. That's why I have it and buy it 4#'s at a time.

Unique doesn't meter well. We all know that. Whether or not it is considered an issue, depends on the loader. Myself, I find that it is a little frustrating getting the hopper set properly; but I know how to deal with it, and is but a minor annoyance. In the end, the hopper gets set and charging the cases gets done soon enough.

Currently, I have about 1.5#'s of Unique. I'm using it up asap and in lieu of my Power Pistol, until it is exhausted. I won't buy more; but to be certain, good ammo will be made with what I have remaining.

Mike38 · February 10, 2018, 01:31 PM

When I first got into competitive shooting, all the "old guys" told me Bullseye powder for the .45acp. No further debates, Bullseye or nothing. Someone took me aside and suggested Titegroup. So now I'm one of the "old guys" on Titegroup. I use it for every pistol caliber I load. .45acp, 9mm, .38spcl, .32 S&WL. But lately, I've been checking into Winchester WST. Might give it a try.

Northof50 · February 10, 2018, 02:10 PM

Good to read Nick. More left on the shelf for me. For the record, all powders burn dirty. Haven't fired a load yet that's cleaned my gun during shooting. Considering the loads for which it's intended and [for me] it's generally a middle/light pressure load, it meters fine in my RCBS powder measure with the micrometer adjustment. Seems each time I dial in the number I have associated with 5.6gr. - 5.6 grains comes out. I'll be damned.

mkl · February 11, 2018, 01:41 PM

Your list of pistol powders is almost identical to my own, and I've been reloading for 40 years or so.

Only change I have made in the last 15 years is going to Winchester Super Field (WSF) in the .45 ACP. I may be the only one in the world that likes it better than Bullseye, but it seems to be cleaner in my applications. Very little reloading data available, but if you want to try another old standby just for the heck of it, it may work as well for you as it does for me.

You can find loading data at:

http://live-hodgdonreloading.pantheo...io/data/pistol

mkl · February 11, 2018, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Unique doesn't meter well. We all know that. Whether or not it is considered an issue, depends on the loader. Myself, I find that it is a little frustrating getting the hopper set properly; but I know how to deal with it, and is but a minor annoyance. In the end, the hopper gets set and charging the cases gets done soon enough.

This puzzles me a little. I've never had a problem with Unique in my RCBS Uniflow measure. I use the small chamber and a baffle along with the "double tap"method on the handle. Double tap means raise the handle up and tap firmly on the upstroke. Lower handle about 1/3 of the way and then up again firmly. Then drop the handle all the way down firmly to dispense powder. Raise handle 1/3 of the way and then down again firmly to shake out any grains that may be stuck in the dispenser chamber.

The above said, it is obvious I am not using a progressive press; I load with a single stage in batches of 50 cartridges, one operation at a time. If one has the ability with his press to use the "double tap" method, it may help with getting uniform charges with Unique powder.

I don't know if Nick_C_S uses my method, but he also seems to have worked out a way to accurately measure Unique.

Northof50 · February 11, 2018, 02:24 PM

MKL - I'm convinced "...Unique doesn't meter well..." has simply been repeated so many times, people just run with it. Like you, in my Uniflow, it meters fine. Using the micrometer adjustment, it indexes in the same spot each time. Also, Unique is not the type of power one uses for maximum loads. It's a great "all-around" powder for moderate loads. Because of its bulk, it's great for larger cases. If you cannot meter Unique without issue, the problem lies with your powder dispenser, or you are being overly critical when weighing.

mkl · February 11, 2018, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Also, Unique is not the type of power one uses for maximum loads.

Agree very much. I gave up "hand cannons" many years ago and tend to stick to comfortable loads. Most painful hand cannon I ever shot was the Ithica burglar gun in 20 gauge(New Improved Double model -- 2 3/4 HV shells). Was in my mid 20's at the time and my hand tingled for 30 minutes after both barrels (not at the same time). A friend inhereted one from his grandfather and we gave it a try. WOW -- make a .44 mag look like a pussycat. Details are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Auto_%26_Burglar

I kindda like 5 grains of Unique behind a 146 grain SWC in my .38 Specials now that I am almost 50 years older

Northof50 · February 11, 2018, 03:59 PM

MKL Yes. 5.6 grains in various calibers [45, 10 and 40] have proven to be very comfortable. The most powerful I've fired was a 375JDJ [444 Marlin necked to 375] in a TC Contender. I was recently at the range, shooting next to someone with a 500SW. He was a nice guy. We were both enjoying cigars. He asked if I wanted to try. I passed. The concussive force was so great it popped the lens from his glasses. With as much respect as I can write, it just didn't look like fun.

My loading/shooting has changed so much now that I'm "North of 50." Now it's a matter of learning to get a sight picture without corrective lenses. Though I still like to take the pistols out to 50 and 100 now and then, it's mostly 15yrds and closer; moderate to light loads; cast over JHP.

Nick_C_S · February 11, 2018, 06:43 PM

Quote:

I don't know if Nick_C_S uses my method, but he also seems to have worked out a way to accurately measure Unique.

I don't. And I have. I have a Uniflow with a small chamber and no baffle. I do "tap" on the up and down stroke. But not exactly what you do. Like I said, adjusting my hopper for Unique just leaves me grinning from time to time - it's not a major issue.

Say I'm adjusting for 5.6 grains (since northof50 seems to like that quantity

), and I get it "set." Then the next two test throws are light - because the one I "set" the hopper with was actually a heavy throw. Then I'll open up the setting a little, and the next throw is heavy - leaving me grinning. I have just gotten to where I'll throw four or five to get an "average" before I decide to make an adjustment. No biggie. But it's not something I have to do with any other propellant however. It's unique to Unique - pun intended

.

Quote:

For the record, all powders burn dirty. Haven't fired a load yet that's cleaned my gun during shooting.

Heh. Good point. Well played

. Actually, that does bring to the discussion some perspective: To me, when a propellant runs "dirty" that's just the propellant telling me I'm not using it right. And that doesn't sit well with me. I want to know my ammo is crafted adroitly. Clean burning ammo tells me I've got the right propellant and charge weight for the application. That means something to me. I'm not really concerned with what it's doing to my firearm. I clean my guns after every trip to the range - no matter how few rounds went through them. And a "heavy" trip to the range means maybe a little "north of" 300 rounds - not enough to malfunction any firearm; no matter how dirty a propellant is running.

GeauxTide · February 12, 2018, 09:52 AM

I never had a problem with any pistol powder in my Uniflow. After 40 years, I replaced it with a Lyman electronic measure/scale. Throws any powder within .1. For rifles, I have a trickler to bring it up to exact.

hgmeyer · February 14, 2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkl

This puzzles me a little. I've never had a problem with Unique in my RCBS Uniflow measure. I use the small chamber and a baffle along with the "double tap"method on the handle. Double tap means raise the handle up and tap firmly on the upstroke. Lower handle about 1/3 of the way and then up again firmly. Then drop the handle all the way down firmly to dispense powder. Raise handle 1/3 of the way and then down again firmly to shake out any grains that may be stuck in the dispenser chamber.

The above said, it is obvious I am not using a progressive press; I load with a single stage in batches of 50 cartridges, one operation at a time. If one has the ability with his press to use the "double tap" method, it may help with getting uniform charges with Unique powder.

I don't know if Nick_C_S uses my method, but he also seems to have worked out a way to accurately measure Unique.

Same method,double tap, on Uniflow. Always.

Started loading in the early sixties. Uncle had the presses in his gas station. Loaded .38 and 12ga.... Both ran fine with Red Dot.

Today, lots of different powders. But, always buying AA#5, Unique, and 4227. Rifle powders are all over for .222, .223, .257, .264, .284, .308, .311, most in 1 to 3 flavors. Variety can make this stuff more fun.

February 10, 2018, 11:07 AM	#27
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	I am another old guy/ old powder shooter. I reload for about 10 different handgun cartridges. probably 90% of my handgun loads are with Unique, Bulllseye, win 231/ HP-38, and power pistol. There's nothing wrong with all the great newer powders, but I like to keep it simple. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

February 10, 2018, 01:10 PM	#31
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Been using Bullseye for everything except .44 Mag(don't have one) and .357(don't shoot it enough to have bothered working up a load) for eons. Don't think which powder, new or not, makes a lot of difference if your load is accurate. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 10, 2018, 10:25 AM	#26
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I’ve used Unique since about 1980. Started using 231 about 8 years ago, and added Universal when we had the big shortage. I only load for 38/357 and 9mm, and use an old Lyman 55 for pistol powder throwing. I recently caught up on reloading the ammo the grandkids shot up. They can sure run through some ammo.

February 10, 2018, 11:49 AM	#28
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	I love to read posts telling everyone that Unique is dirty, doesn't meter well, and "xxxx is a better." Means there will be a good supply when I shop for it.

February 10, 2018, 12:19 PM	#29
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I have used Unique powder for the 44 Spl for many years. It works for the 44 Magnum too. If you are going to reload, I suggest you try some things and experiment until you find something that does well for you. Have fun!

February 10, 2018, 01:04 PM	#30
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I started hand loading in the early 60s. Back then and up until just a few years ago, I never used a powder that left no residue. I guess by today's standards there were no "clean" powders. Still, to date, I have only discovered a clean powder that shoots clean in 2 calibers that I have used it in. Both handgun calibers. Did I stop using all the dirty powders? Not only no, but hell no.

February 10, 2018, 01:31 PM	#33
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	When I first got into competitive shooting, all the "old guys" told me Bullseye powder for the .45acp. No further debates, Bullseye or nothing. Someone took me aside and suggested Titegroup. So now I'm one of the "old guys" on Titegroup. I use it for every pistol caliber I load. .45acp, 9mm, .38spcl, .32 S&WL. But lately, I've been checking into Winchester WST. Might give it a try.

February 10, 2018, 02:10 PM	#34
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	Good to read Nick. More left on the shelf for me. For the record, all powders burn dirty. Haven't fired a load yet that's cleaned my gun during shooting. Considering the loads for which it's intended and [for me] it's generally a middle/light pressure load, it meters fine in my RCBS powder measure with the micrometer adjustment. Seems each time I dial in the number I have associated with 5.6gr. - 5.6 grains comes out. I'll be damned.

February 11, 2018, 01:41 PM	#35
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Your list of pistol powders is almost identical to my own, and I've been reloading for 40 years or so. Only change I have made in the last 15 years is going to Winchester Super Field (WSF) in the .45 ACP. I may be the only one in the world that likes it better than Bullseye, but it seems to be cleaner in my applications. Very little reloading data available, but if you want to try another old standby just for the heck of it, it may work as well for you as it does for me. You can find loading data at: http://live-hodgdonreloading.pantheo...io/data/pistol

February 11, 2018, 02:24 PM	#37
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	MKL - I'm convinced "...Unique doesn't meter well..." has simply been repeated so many times, people just run with it. Like you, in my Uniflow, it meters fine. Using the micrometer adjustment, it indexes in the same spot each time. Also, Unique is not the type of power one uses for maximum loads. It's a great "all-around" powder for moderate loads. Because of its bulk, it's great for larger cases. If you cannot meter Unique without issue, the problem lies with your powder dispenser, or you are being overly critical when weighing.

February 11, 2018, 03:59 PM	#39
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	MKL Yes. 5.6 grains in various calibers [45, 10 and 40] have proven to be very comfortable. The most powerful I've fired was a 375JDJ [444 Marlin necked to 375] in a TC Contender. I was recently at the range, shooting next to someone with a 500SW. He was a nice guy. We were both enjoying cigars. He asked if I wanted to try. I passed. The concussive force was so great it popped the lens from his glasses. With as much respect as I can write, it just didn't look like fun. My loading/shooting has changed so much now that I'm "North of 50." Now it's a matter of learning to get a sight picture without corrective lenses. Though I still like to take the pistols out to 50 and 100 now and then, it's mostly 15yrds and closer; moderate to light loads; cast over JHP.

February 12, 2018, 09:52 AM	#41
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	I never had a problem with any pistol powder in my Uniflow. After 40 years, I replaced it with a Lyman electronic measure/scale. Throws any powder within .1. For rifles, I have a trickler to bring it up to exact.