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Old July 23, 2021, 02:36 PM   #151
ballardw
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I obviously do not have the details of your set up. Range is usually the factor I run into that makes elevation changes necessary, not where on a target I'm shooting.

You might try seeing what happens with either inhaling or letting out a bit more breath and watch where your sights go.
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Old July 23, 2021, 04:55 PM   #152
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I thought about turning the target upside down--might try that--but 90 degrees I wouldn't do because even the slightest change in elevation would force an adjustment in sighting between each shot is what I've experienced shooting 22lr at 50 yds.
I am sighted in for 50 yards. I shoot one sighter on a 1/2 dot I stick up for my wind call and get to shooting. I just alter my squeeze bag for moving up and down the target. I was getting a little more bounce that I thought on bench and prone. So I loaded the bi-pod and got a tad of group shrinkage last week. Will see how that plays into a score tomorrow.
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Old July 23, 2021, 05:20 PM   #153
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Aim small miss small, if you focus your aim on a small part of your target, you have a better chance of hitting it. Buddy of mine practices by using 1/4 - 1/3 MOA dots for targets, all the way out to 1000 yards. Swears it helps
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Old July 23, 2021, 05:55 PM   #154
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Smaller dots do help to a point. Matching the reticle to the power to the distance is part of it. The rest is mental, trigger control and fundamentals.
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Old July 23, 2021, 07:31 PM   #155
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The rest is mental, trigger control and fundamentals.
practice, practice and more practice. 22's are great for that
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Old July 23, 2021, 08:01 PM   #156
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I think I've burned about a thousand rounds of 22lr in the past couple of weeks--so no way I'm having any fun.
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Old July 23, 2021, 08:58 PM   #157
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I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box--could you put that in terms of optical physics that makes it easier for me to understand?
The bigger the target is compared to the accuracy you can shoot, the easier it is to hit it.
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Old July 24, 2021, 10:50 PM   #158
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The 30 point dot is smaller than the 22 point dot. That's why it's worth 8 points more.
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Old July 25, 2021, 01:31 AM   #159
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The 30 point dot is smaller than the 22 point dot. That's why it's worth 8 points more.
It's an extraordinarily small target--about .04"--and very hard to focus on well even with a very good scope. I think there is something to be said for the "aim small miss small" observation--for whatever reason the smallness of the target, while harder to acquire and hold steady, "forces" a better technique on an almost subconscious level for me.
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Old July 25, 2021, 10:55 AM   #160
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Keep in mind that 22 rimfire ammo made since 1980 is not as accurate as earlier stuff.

An explosion at Lapua's factory killing a few dozen resulted in Eley being tasked to develop a safer primer for all European plants to use. The new compound was safer but ammo was less accurate and wore out barrels faster.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...DqlbeG5hmdIZHW

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...4031871/page-4

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Old July 25, 2021, 02:12 PM   #161
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Plant explosion happen 45yrs ago. Guess it helps talk about good old days.
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Old July 25, 2021, 02:20 PM   #162
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The second article is pretty interesting--I take a look at my bore after each outing and pull cartridges from the chamber every now and then--I find evidence of lead chunks adhering to the throat every time. I'm not sure it's exclusively the bolt and feeding itself that does it; I think it's possibly the "stickiness" of the bullet sealing to the throat that strips some from the bullet.
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Old July 25, 2021, 05:49 PM   #163
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Plant explosion happen 45yrs ago. Guess it helps talk about good old days.
Not really. The rifle barrels and chambers are so much better that what happened in 1980 is totally irrelevant to the current discussion. But I guess you already know that.
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Old July 25, 2021, 10:33 PM   #164
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Not really. The rifle barrels and chambers are so much better that what happened in 1980 is totally irrelevant to the current discussion. But I guess you already know that.
If they are so much better, why aren't they equaling or breaking records set before 1980?

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Old July 26, 2021, 08:41 AM   #165
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The second article is pretty interesting--I take a look at my bore after each outing and pull cartridges from the chamber every now and then--I find evidence of lead chunks adhering to the throat every time. I'm not sure it's exclusively the bolt and feeding itself that does it; I think it's possibly the "stickiness" of the bullet sealing to the throat that strips some from the bullet.
I doubt that happens. If it does, it wouldn't be the same across all bullets. All bullets would be unbalanced to varying amounts. Accuracy suffers when that happens.
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Old July 26, 2021, 08:44 AM   #166
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I doubt that happens. If it does, it wouldn't be the same across all bullets. All bullets would be unbalanced to varying amounts. Accuracy suffers when that happens.
I see these little chunks stuck to the throat even when I carefully hand-feed a cartridge straight into the chamber--what do you think might account for it? The gun shoots extremely well otherwise.
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Old July 26, 2021, 09:51 AM   #167
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I would have to get the stuff analyzed to learn what it is. It's probably the lubricant.
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:01 AM   #168
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I would have to get the stuff analyzed to learn what it is. It's probably the lubricant.
It takes some doing to get the throat clean, that's where I see about 97% of fouling in my CZ's barrel.
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:04 AM   #169
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If they are so much better, why aren't they equaling or breaking records set before 1980?
Record for smallest 5 shot group is 1998. One record in 1980 and one in 1981 still stand. A few in 1998. Every other record (about 100 total, 37 in Benchrest) has been beaten in the last 20 years, most in the last 10 years. No registered matches in 2020, but 2019 has about 10 records set. So, there is not a single standing record prior to 1980 that has not been beat. Kind of blows your theory into oblivion. Do some research.
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:06 AM   #170
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Even Eley seems to be doing okay...

January 26th, 2014

12.4 mm for 40 Shots at 50m — New Record at Eley Test Center
Two new 50m rimfire 40-shot group size records were set last week at the Eley test range in Fellback (Stuttgart), Germany. This range employs an electronic target system that automatically calculates shot placement with great precision. The rifles are secured in clamping fixtures during testing. On January 21st, a new 13.2 mm record was set, follow by an even-better 12.4 mm record (that’s 0.488″). The previous record was 13.3 mm set in 2007.

Before we go further, we need to explain how these 40-shot records are determined. The record is not 40 shots fired in one single, continuous string at a single target. Instead the record is based on the software-calculated “consolidated” group size of four, separate 10-shot groups. Software at the Eley test range is capable of over-laying four, 10-shot groups so they appear as one large “consolidated” group. These “consolidated” 40-shot group overlays have been recognized as new records.
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:15 AM   #171
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It takes some doing to get the throat clean, that's where I see about 97% of fouling in my CZ's barrel.
A rimfire shooters hack...Tumble your bullets, by hand, in walnut media to get all the lube off. Then use dry compressed air to make sure there is no dust.

Every 10th bullet, lubricate with a drop of Rem oil. I don't shoot those into groups since they will be flyers.

Eliminates the need to sort and maintains a more consistent weight and rifling engagement. In most of my rimfires, it keeps them cleaner and more accurate.

Also, if every rimfire shooter did this, the only proper use for RemOil would become common knowledge.
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:27 AM   #172
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A rimfire shooters hack...Tumble your bullets, by hand, in walnut media to get all the lube off. Then use dry compressed air to make sure there is no dust.

Every 10th bullet, lubricate with a drop of Rem oil. I don't shoot those into groups since they will be flyers.

Eliminates the need to sort and maintains a more consistent weight and rifling engagement. In most of my rimfires, it keeps them cleaner and more accurate.

Also, if every rimfire shooter did this, the only proper use for RemOil would become common knowledge.
In other words, the lubricant on the bullets has no real beneficial use?
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Old July 26, 2021, 10:40 AM   #173
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The lube has some benefit...but in handling, we move it around and make it inconsistent, which degrades the BC and accuracy. Some also form a gooey varnish in chambers and gum up magazines.

Dry lubes/coatings are better for rimfire, but they cost more.
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Old July 26, 2021, 11:21 AM   #174
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Dry lubes/coatings are better for rimfire, but they cost more.
The premium Ely and RWS ammo I've shot is pretty stiff at around 40 cents a shot, I would think they would come with a better lubricant?
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Old July 26, 2021, 11:37 AM   #175
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Record for smallest 5 shot group is 1998. One record in 1980 and one in 1981 still stand. A few in 1998. Every other record (about 100 total, 37 in Benchrest) has been beaten in the last 20 years, most in the last 10 years. No registered matches in 2020, but 2019 has about 10 records set. So, there is not a single standing record prior to 1980 that has not been beat. Kind of blows your theory into oblivion. Do some research.
I'm referring to 40-shot prone records at 100 yards.

Of course benchrest records are broken. Every once in a while is a statistical anomaly. The group size extremes increase and decrease. Smallest ones are statistically luck. As are the largest ones. It's not nice to reveal the largest groups fired in benchrest matches.

Last edited by Bart B.; July 26, 2021 at 12:24 PM.
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