.22LR for military use - Page 2

amd6547 · June 7, 2017, 12:51 PM

Bill Donovan, head of the OSS, supposedly demonstrated a suppressed High Standard 22 pistol in the Oval Office for FDR.

Reloadron · June 7, 2017, 05:10 PM

Beyond clandestine spook type stuff I believe the US Government used 22 LR for training purposes. Matter of fact didn't the government have 22 LR adapter kits made for use on the 45 ACP 1911 pistol? These were actual GI conversion kits. I believe at one point the CMP was selling 500 round white box bricks of 22 LR which was US Government surplus stuff. I have one buried around here somewhere.I think the box I have was Remington manufactured.The government also used 22 LR rifles for rifle marksmanship training I believe. So while all the special ops stuff is cool I think that basic 22 LR served much more for more normal applications.

Ron

Mobuck · June 7, 2017, 09:18 PM

"I believe at one point the CMP was selling 500 round white box bricks of 22 LR which was US Government surplus stuff..I think the box I have was Remington manufactured.The government also used 22 LR rifles for rifle marksmanship training I believe. "
I shot a lot of that on the 10 meter range back in 1970.

"Bill Donovan, head of the OSS, supposedly demonstrated a suppressed High Standard 22 pistol"
A very quiet piece of equipment. Pulled my butt out of a bad spot once upon a time.

Model12Win · June 7, 2017, 09:30 PM

Quote:

There are stories from the Vietnam War about US Special Ops using silenced .22 rifles during prisoner snatches.

Reportedly, they'd set up on a trail and wait for a small unit to come through.
They'd pick out the one they thought was the officer and shoot him in the knee cap.
When he fell they'd trigger Claymore mines set to kill anyone standing up in the kill zone, grab the prisoner and extract.

They could tell who the officer was because they always needed to make themselves special somehow.
Usually the man with a pistol or tennis shoes a different color from everyone else was the officer.

Why exactly did they bother to shoot the CC in the kneecap before popping clays??

**44 AMP** · June 8, 2017, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Why exactly did they bother to shoot the CC in the kneecap before popping clays??

Quote:

Claymore mines set to kill anyone standing up in the kill zone,

I would imagine that sometimes, things didn't work out exactly as planned...

Mobuck · June 8, 2017, 06:25 AM

In theory, dropping the officer below the level of fire would prevent him being killed and disabling him to prevent him running away made capture easier. Generally speaking, the claymores simply "cleared the area" in front of their location so precise "get some but leave one" set-up would be hopeful at best.
I didn't have much to do with them as that was the duty of the security team and most often used trip wires or time delay(vs command detonation) to discourage folks from following our trail.

Dfariswheel · June 10, 2017, 08:00 PM

Many of the services used .22 rifles for training.
I remember that Mossberg made a trainer bolt action that felt like and resembled an M1 Rifle for training.
A number were sold through the CMP a few years ago.
The services also used full-on .22 Target rifles.
My old gun club was a DCM affiliated club and the Army lent us .22 Remington 513T, Winchester 52, and Remington 40X rifles.

All of them were recalled and fed into Captain Crunch under orders of Bill Clinton.

The Army used to shoot .22's on a 50 foot range they called the "1000 inch Range" in boot camp.

Some Vietnam tunnel rats were issued WWII era High Standard .22 autos with silencers for clearing tunnels.
I also seem to remember that there was a .22 conversion kit made for the 1903 Springfield called a "Gallery Practice Kit" back in the pre-WWII days.

Dfariswheel · June 10, 2017, 08:05 PM

I read the story about Special Forces doing prisoner snatches by popping the officer in the kneecap in a book written by a SF soldier who served multiple tours in Vietnam with SOG.

He claimed that when it worked and they successfully grabbed one, they got a free weekend in Hong Kong.
There were far stranger things then this that went on back then.

Bill DeShivs · June 11, 2017, 03:56 AM

Hi Standard HD Militarys were never issued weapons. The HDM was a post-war civilian pistol. The military used model HD pistols, not HD Militarys.

Scorch · April 16, 2022, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Claymore mines set to kill anyone standing up in the kill zone,
I would imagine that sometimes, things didn't work out exactly as planned...

I don't remember seeing the "standing personnel only" setting on M18s (Claymores). Maybe I was too young (I joined the USMC in 1975 when I was 18). I kind of remember Claymores messing up EVERYTHING in the kill zone. So, yes, I agree, sometimes things probably didn't go exactly as planned. It's kinda like my kids' video games where a grenade only kills one guy, right?

Rob228 · April 16, 2022, 06:59 PM

Quote:

I don't remember seeing the "standing personnel only" setting on M18s (Claymores).

Oh come on its only 700 balls per claymore

. Yeah I wouldn't want to bet two days in Hong Kong that a guy on the ground survives being in the kill zone.

I cannot find any reference to it online right now, but in the book "Iron Fist From The Sea" which covers South African maritime raids in the 70s they mention a full auto .22, it wasn't suppressed.

Reloadron · April 16, 2022, 07:18 PM

Sorch, you enlisted the last year I was a USMC Recruiter. 72 through 75 I recruited out of Cleveland, Ohio.

I rotated out of Vietnam in early 72, went to recruiters school at MCRD San Diego and ended up in Cleveland.

My humorous memory of the Claymore Mine M18A1 was the large bold face print "Front Toward Enemy" not that anyone ever wanted to be directly behind one.

Ron

June 7, 2017, 12:51 PM	#26
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Bill Donovan, head of the OSS, supposedly demonstrated a suppressed High Standard 22 pistol in the Oval Office for FDR. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

June 11, 2017, 03:56 AM	#34
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Hi Standard HD Militarys were never issued weapons. The HDM was a post-war civilian pistol. The military used model HD pistols, not HD Militarys. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 7, 2017, 05:10 PM	#27
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	Beyond clandestine spook type stuff I believe the US Government used 22 LR for training purposes. Matter of fact didn't the government have 22 LR adapter kits made for use on the 45 ACP 1911 pistol? These were actual GI conversion kits. I believe at one point the CMP was selling 500 round white box bricks of 22 LR which was US Government surplus stuff. I have one buried around here somewhere.I think the box I have was Remington manufactured.The government also used 22 LR rifles for rifle marksmanship training I believe. So while all the special ops stuff is cool I think that basic 22 LR served much more for more normal applications. Ron

June 7, 2017, 09:18 PM	#28
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"I believe at one point the CMP was selling 500 round white box bricks of 22 LR which was US Government surplus stuff..I think the box I have was Remington manufactured.The government also used 22 LR rifles for rifle marksmanship training I believe. " I shot a lot of that on the 10 meter range back in 1970. "Bill Donovan, head of the OSS, supposedly demonstrated a suppressed High Standard 22 pistol" A very quiet piece of equipment. Pulled my butt out of a bad spot once upon a time.

June 8, 2017, 06:25 AM	#31
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	In theory, dropping the officer below the level of fire would prevent him being killed and disabling him to prevent him running away made capture easier. Generally speaking, the claymores simply "cleared the area" in front of their location so precise "get some but leave one" set-up would be hopeful at best. I didn't have much to do with them as that was the duty of the security team and most often used trip wires or time delay(vs command detonation) to discourage folks from following our trail.

June 10, 2017, 08:00 PM	#32
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Many of the services used .22 rifles for training. I remember that Mossberg made a trainer bolt action that felt like and resembled an M1 Rifle for training. A number were sold through the CMP a few years ago. The services also used full-on .22 Target rifles. My old gun club was a DCM affiliated club and the Army lent us .22 Remington 513T, Winchester 52, and Remington 40X rifles. All of them were recalled and fed into Captain Crunch under orders of Bill Clinton. The Army used to shoot .22's on a 50 foot range they called the "1000 inch Range" in boot camp. Some Vietnam tunnel rats were issued WWII era High Standard .22 autos with silencers for clearing tunnels. I also seem to remember that there was a .22 conversion kit made for the 1903 Springfield called a "Gallery Practice Kit" back in the pre-WWII days.

June 10, 2017, 08:05 PM	#33
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	I read the story about Special Forces doing prisoner snatches by popping the officer in the kneecap in a book written by a SF soldier who served multiple tours in Vietnam with SOG. He claimed that when it worked and they successfully grabbed one, they got a free weekend in Hong Kong. There were far stranger things then this that went on back then.

April 16, 2022, 07:18 PM	#37
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	Sorch, you enlisted the last year I was a USMC Recruiter. 72 through 75 I recruited out of Cleveland, Ohio. I rotated out of Vietnam in early 72, went to recruiters school at MCRD San Diego and ended up in Cleveland. My humorous memory of the Claymore Mine M18A1 was the large bold face print "Front Toward Enemy" not that anyone ever wanted to be directly behind one. Ron