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April 29, 2017, 01:46 PM | #1 |
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Location: Southern Illinois
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Illinois gun mfg. Support bad legislation
Two Illinois gun manufacturers have supported a gun dealer licensing bill that
would be harmful to small FFLs. small FFLs. Both manufacturer, Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms,
This bill will hurt both small FFLs and their customers by driving many out of business This is a slap in the face to Illinois gun owners who Illinois AWB legislation in the past aimed at driving them out of business. Some of you may have read about this on NRA-ILA website. The legilsation SB1657 has passed the senate and will go to the Illinois house. Please voice your disaprovle to Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms tell them to remove support for the bill or you will not buy their products in the furture. |
April 29, 2017, 07:47 PM | #2 |
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I just looked at the NRA-ILA site. Lots of Hyperbole, as usual for the NRA, but no hows, whys, or what fors.
Anyone know more about this? Just telling me it's bad for gun owners and small gun shops doesn't help me. I need to know how. |
April 29, 2017, 08:03 PM | #3 |
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Is there a link or article for any of this? Or is this just internet hyperbole?
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April 29, 2017, 09:26 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
I incorporated in the 70s before it was fashionable, and because my FFL was in the name of a corporation, they didn't recognize me as a one-man operation. Constantly, from my fellow firearm dealers, I received requests to back modifications of firearm laws that were deliberately concocted to put me out of the firearms business. In one instance, their spiel outright said that we want to raise the license fee to $250 a year to put the "hobbyist" dealers out of business. When businesses want higher costs, or more regulations from the government, you can bet the reason is protection from competitors. |
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April 30, 2017, 08:38 AM | #5 | ||
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April 30, 2017, 11:07 AM | #6 |
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To add anywhere from $150 to $300 to the retail price of any new firearm, the new licensing fee would be what, $10,000 per year? I don't see that happening, even in the money grubbing state of Illinois. Hyperbole.
Don't get me wrong, I'm against any and all increases in the cost of doing business in Illinois and nation wide. But I'm growing weary of the knee jerk lies coming from the ISRA and the NRA. I'm not falling for it until presented with cold hard facts. |
April 30, 2017, 11:29 AM | #7 | |
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April 30, 2017, 02:45 PM | #8 |
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Illinois is one very messed up state from top to bottom.........don't they have more important issues to worry about......like a budget being passed, now about two years without one, schools and everything else in the state running out of money.....roads , bridges falling apart.....!!!!
They are worried about closing down gunshops........Cmon...!! |
April 30, 2017, 02:48 PM | #9 |
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Well here it is....
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/bill...4&SessionID=91 I'm no Lawyer, but it looks to me like they may be trying to stop illegal gun sales. Here's an example that I just saw again today. Stopped at my local Walmart to get my "daily allowance" of three 50 round boxes of CCI Std Vel. Just in front of me at the check out was a guy I recognize as a "dealer" at the same town's quarterly gun show. He buys bulk boxes of .22LR, today was Federal Auto Match, and resells at said gun show for double what he pays. No big deal, you say? Well this same guy sells firearms, and has told me numerous times he DOES NOT HAVE AN FFL. He supplements his Social Security checks by buying and reselling ammo and firearms right here in Illinois. Clearly against the law. I've seen him sell dozens of firearms at a weekend show, to make a profit, no waiting period, no background checks, which is against the law. Without guys like that, laws like the proposed would not be created. Climb on the law breakers like him, not me, thank you very much. |
April 30, 2017, 05:02 PM | #10 |
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So let's pass more laws that will only be obeyed by law abiding gun owners. That works for Chicago, right? If gun owners and manufactures don't stand up for the 2nd A then they can all become liberals and support Clinton and people like them . At least they "Clintons" are honest about their opinion on guns. If SA and RRA did remove their opposition to SB 1657 then they will not be supported by my future purchases.
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April 30, 2017, 10:17 PM | #11 |
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The Firearm Blog had an article on the sell-out, but it has disappeared. Given Springfield Armory is a regular advertiser, I have to wonder...not a peep from Guns.com, either.
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April 30, 2017, 11:01 PM | #12 |
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Mike - Gun shows with no background checks?
Mike:
I've only been to Illinois gunshows in down state area near St. Louis. Specifically in Highland and Bellville IL. They all have made ALL sales that take place that day go through an FFL including a background check. Where are you going to gun shows that have no background check. I'm sure they exist, just never been to one. Life is good. Prof Young |
May 1, 2017, 06:36 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
Springfield and Rock River are doing CYA. They want to stay in business. If they side with you here that are condoning illegal gun sales, they will not stay in business long. I never should have involved myself in this thread. Have fun condoning your illegal activities guys...... |
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May 1, 2017, 07:13 AM | #14 |
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Who's condoning illegal sales? We're fighting crap like 9 transfer/year limits, and regulations on gun dealers that could add HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS to each gun purchase.
This will accomplish nothing, will prevent no crime and will only hurt honest gun owners. How you came to view it as a legitimate means to fight 'illegal activities' is beyond me. Any other gun regulations you think we should get working on? Registration, fingerprinting, mandatory training? Larry
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May 1, 2017, 11:48 AM | #15 |
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Well said . DT Guy.
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May 1, 2017, 12:03 PM | #16 |
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Mike38, can you explain how this bill would deter violent crime or curb illegal sales?
Your previous example is already illegal, and the guy doing so knows it...do you think he will get the additional IL license for the FFL he never bothered getting? |
May 1, 2017, 12:34 PM | #17 |
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I would want to see their math to figure out how they come up with an extra $150.00 to $300.00 per gun in regulatory fees. Sincerely, before I believe the sensationalism and start screaming "they're coming for the guns." I just want to see specifics in the bill, and the math used by the opponents, that will increase the cost of business this much. I don't believe it exists.
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May 1, 2017, 01:32 PM | #18 | |
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Some of what's written in the ILSA email strikes me as shrill hyperbole, but don't dismiss it completely—this bill DOES seem to be deliberately written to make things VERY difficult for anyone wishing to open a low-volume transfer-oriented FFL business, and particularly a home-based one. The bill requires a video-surveillance system "sufficient to monitor the critical areas of the business premises, including, but not limited to, all places where firearms are stored, handled, sold, transferred, or carried," in addition to the vague (and therefore potentially onerous) storage requirement I quote above; would YOU want motion-sensing video cameras that record 24/7 installed throughout your house? In order to be licensed, a person must have "a minimum of one year of experience, with a minimum of 100 hours per year, during the 5 years immediately preceding the application: (i) as a dealership agent under this Act; or (ii) as a federal firearms dealer... or an employee of the business who had access to firearms." IOW you wouldn't be able to obtain a license unless you had previously worked professionally in a firearms business for at least a year, regardless of how skilled you are in other trades and/or how clean your criminal record is. Furthermore, the licensee will be required to undergo continuing education. The bill also contains fairly complex record-keeping and vague "To Be Determined" training requirements with regards to so-called "dealership agents"; hence, I presume that you couldn't ask your buddy to watch your table at the gun show, unless you first permanently record a bunch of his personal information AND put him through the detailed IL training regimen. Did I mention the non-discrimination clause? In short, I'm seeing a bunch of stuff that wouldn't be a major problem for a full-blown gun-dealing business with a permanent and public 10,000+ SF location and 20± employees, as many such businesses are doing most of this stuff anyway (and the owner likely has an experienced firearms attorney on speed-dial). The main issue, as I see it, is that it's going to SERIOUSLY discourage enthusiasts from opening small-volume "kitchen table" operations.
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May 1, 2017, 03:09 PM | #19 | |
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If you haven't reported this violation of which you are aware, are you condoning his illegal activities? |
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May 1, 2017, 07:48 PM | #20 | |
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I'm somewhat confident this bill will fail to pass the House vote, we'll see. I really, really hope it doesn't come down to whether the governor vetoes it or not. |
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May 1, 2017, 07:50 PM | #21 | |
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May 2, 2017, 12:05 AM | #22 |
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Now, both RRA and SA have released statements saying they completely oppose this bill.
...looks like the loss of revenue made their PR departments scramble. (Color me skeptical of the main backers of the lobbying group both denying support for the lobbyist's actions...) |
May 2, 2017, 02:27 PM | #23 |
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Agreed. They'll have to renounce/return their carve-out and go all-out on opposing this bill in the house to make me start believing they're sincere about this.
Either way, it's been a PR debacle that never needed to happen. Larry
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May 2, 2017, 03:22 PM | #24 | ||
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From what I understand in NY license to run a taxi is like 1 million dollars and they have rules on how old the car can be etc. Way back in the day before the laws the avg little guy could get him self a car and run his own taxi.. now that's impossible. It's why they all hate Uber. Quote:
Im staunchly anti-drug, but im also pro "if it ain't hurting anyone do what ever the hell you want!". |
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May 2, 2017, 10:35 PM | #25 | |
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