|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
December 1, 2016, 10:31 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Unity, Nh
Posts: 143
|
another AOW or SBS question
So, am I correct that if you buy a Mossberg 500 Cruiser model , (that came from the factory with a pistol grip and NEVER had a stock on it)and cut it down (after the tax stamp arrives) or bought the parts from Mossberg to do the 14" conversion...that gun can be REGISTERED as a AOW?
__________________
live free or die! |
December 1, 2016, 10:41 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
Correct.
It can also have the barrel cut to where the overall length is 26" without being registered as an AOW or NFA weapon. |
December 1, 2016, 10:51 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Unity, Nh
Posts: 143
|
"Correct.
It can also have the barrel cut to where the overall length is 26" without being registered as an AOW or NFA weapon. " Yes, I know that. I'm considering a AOW as my entry into the NFA realm, and thought I'd start simple. I have a lot of people trying to discourage me from going there due to hyped-up fears and misinformation about these things.
__________________
live free or die! |
December 1, 2016, 11:00 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Unity, Nh
Posts: 143
|
Thanks Bill.....
__________________
live free or die! |
December 1, 2016, 11:14 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
Why would you build it as an AOW and not an SBS? They both cost the same to register on a Form 1 and with an SBS you always have the option to add a stock if you want to.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." |
December 2, 2016, 01:09 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 3,750
|
I thought AOW was a $5 tax, while SBS is the normal $200?
__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19! |
December 2, 2016, 01:37 AM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
Quote:
Since registering a shotgun as an SBS allows you to have a short barrel but also gives you the added bonus of being able to attach a stock if you want to, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the OP to build his Mossberg as an AOW unless he wants to be able to take it out of state without filing a Form 5320.20, or if SBSs are illegal his state but AOWs aren't (like in my state).
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." |
|
December 2, 2016, 08:19 AM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 3,750
|
Quote:
__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19! |
|
December 3, 2016, 02:25 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
What I meant was you can cut the barrel BELOW 18" as long as the OAL is 26" or more, WITHOUT getting into NFA territory.
On my 20 ga Cruiser, that would be about 16". Getting an NFA item is a big deal-until you get one. Then it's just another gun. |
December 4, 2016, 12:06 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Posts: 3,084
|
To Bill's point, there are Mossberg Cruisers with extra-long birdshead grips and 14" barrels that are non-NFA due to their overall length. So there's a possibility you could save yourself the tax stamp and registration on that one by building a legal "firearm" that has the same barrel length you want.
Also worth considering to make it an SBS if possible for the addition of a stock, as noted.
__________________
Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com. |
December 4, 2016, 06:13 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 25, 2016
Posts: 802
|
Also check your State Legal code.
__________________
"Tragedy has been and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it, but each horrible act can’t become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us." |
December 4, 2016, 11:01 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Unity, Nh
Posts: 143
|
here in Nh, you can have whatever the ATF says an individual can have, with the tax stamp(s). just like NH has NO blade restrictions at all since 2010, we can carry long fixed bladed knives, daggers, dirks, have switchblades & butterfly knives, wear our swords..ect.
I'm glad y'all cleared up for me about doing a Form 1 would still cost $200 on either a AOW or a SBS, I was unsure about that. like I said, there are some trying to convince me it's foolish and a waste of time. just going to do them all as SBSs.
__________________
live free or die! |
December 5, 2016, 02:06 AM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
Quote:
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." |
|
December 6, 2016, 10:52 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Unity, Nh
Posts: 143
|
the arguments range from being put on a "special watch-list" to "why waste money on that when you can't even carry loaded in a vehicle like you can a AR or AK pistol"
total ignorance if you ask me............
__________________
live free or die! |
December 6, 2016, 11:28 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
They didn't give me a special watch when I did my SBS!
|
January 19, 2017, 10:22 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 28, 1999
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 560
|
I knew this thread is a month or two old.
But for those who may find it in the future, or for those participating now. This is what is being discussed and all the controversy is about. http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 Read the info there. Also read all the linked info and references. Then draw your own conclusions. Mine is no way, no how, no sir. It's a trip to jail waiting to happen. Is it really worth the hassle to dabble in such a "grey" area of the law. And God forbid you purchased a base shotgun with a pistol grip that the owner swore up and down was factory original. Only to find out at a later date - like after your arrest - that it originally left the factory with a full length butt stock. Rob
__________________
NRA & NAHC Life Member |
January 19, 2017, 11:07 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
Quote:
The issue you might have is if you run into police officers who don't understand this and erroneously think you're breaking the law. But that's not because you're dealing with a legal grey area, it's because most cops probably don't know the details of federal firearms law.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." |
|
January 19, 2017, 12:02 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 28, 1999
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 560
|
My point and contention is why bother with the potential legal hassle for 4" of barrel length ?!?
Anyone that wants to go with this type of a firearm go ahead and do so. Just don't be shocked and outraged when some cop arrests you. Will you win the court battle....probably. Will the case be dropped or never picked up by a prosecuting attorney - hopefully. But why take the chance is all I am saying.....
__________________
NRA & NAHC Life Member |
January 20, 2017, 12:47 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2017
Posts: 1,583
|
It is clearly not a "shotgun" or a rile or pistol because it is a smooth bore. Doesn't that place it in the "Any other firearm" category?
It is a firearm and the definition of a pistol fits, with the exception of a rifled barrel. It is also shooting a larger projectile than .50 caliber... "a destructive device"? |
January 20, 2017, 01:12 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
Guns like this are simply classified as a "firearm."
There is no "any other firearm." It's "Any Other Weapon," but these guns are not classified as such. |
January 20, 2017, 01:21 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2017
Posts: 1,583
|
Houston, we have a situation...
If the manufacturer of the pistol grip only gun a "shotgun" does that leave a loophole for the ATFE to call it a short barreled shotgun? This smells of an ATF misinformation ploy. The letters imply that it is not a shotgun and that the rules don't apply to it because it was never a shoulder fired gun but the manufacturer calls it a shotgun. They never come out and say what you are doing is legal. I'm not sure that you have a valid defense since you knew when you ordered it that it was a shotgun. I know that if I make a shotgun from scratch without a shoulder stock and keep the overall length 26 inches it is considered a shotgun whether it has a shoulder stock or not. My home made gun is legally a shotgun but my advantage is that I made it from scratch and in order to be at least 26 inches long the barrel has to be more than 18 inches. I am unsure what would happen if I made the action longer to be able to remove some of the barrel. |
January 20, 2017, 02:36 AM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
You can argue all day what it isn't. I'm telling you what it IS as per the ATF.
Your home made pistol gripped shotgun would be classified as a FIREARM, not a shotgun. The OAL of a FIREARM must be 26 inches or more. The barrel can be less than 18 inches. |
January 20, 2017, 04:49 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2017
Posts: 1,583
|
Bill, I don't doubt your belief but the letters in the link from the ATF did not say it was legal. They skirted around doing so while defining what other arms were. I don't trust the ATF at all. Now if they came out and said that your concept was legal then I would be more willing to believe it. Having a letter from the ATF saying your gun was legal would be an adequate defense in court. I don't see anything wrong with the concept although I don't know of a use for such a gun, for me, personally.
wish you all the luck and profits you can use in your enterprise. |
January 20, 2017, 01:02 PM | #24 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,829
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume." Last edited by Theohazard; January 20, 2017 at 05:14 PM. |
|||||
|
|