The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 16, 2023, 09:00 PM   #1
LeverGunFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 402
Vista Outdoors sells ammunition business

Vista Outdoors has entered into an agreement to sell the "sporting" (ammunition) business to the Czechoslovak Group (CSG). The sale apparently includes CCI, Federal, Hevi-Shot, Remington and Speer ammunition businesses. No mention of Alliant powder in any of the press releases. More information here.

Vista was in the process of splitting the ammunition business off into a separate company, apparently that plan has changed to a sale to CSG.
__________________
Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition

Last edited by LeverGunFan; October 17, 2023 at 06:30 AM.
LeverGunFan is offline  
Old October 17, 2023, 12:03 AM   #2
rc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,718
Great, a bigger deficit as money is sucked out of the U.S.
rc is offline  
Old October 17, 2023, 01:27 PM   #3
veprdude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 421
Who makes primers for the US military? Wasn't there a 3rd major company planning on making primers?
veprdude is offline  
Old October 17, 2023, 07:17 PM   #4
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,696
Well, maybe, just maybe, CSG will make some .22 LR that's worth buying because CCI Federal and Remington sure isn't doing it.
Mike38 is offline  
Old October 17, 2023, 07:37 PM   #5
LeverGunFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 402
Some CCI is OK, but Federal and Remington do need some work on their rimfire products.
__________________
Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition
LeverGunFan is offline  
Old October 17, 2023, 10:06 PM   #6
rc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,718
Mike, Aguila and Armscor quality has risen a lot in 30 years while American rimfire quality has gone down a lot. No comparison between the quality of late 90s federal 550 packs and bulk ammo they sell today with the same bullet. No comparison between the performance of late 90s Federal Lighting load 510 compared with later Federal Champion and Auto match using the same bullet.
rc is offline  
Old October 18, 2023, 03:30 AM   #7
ballardw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 1,395
Does that mean that some of the increased size of my groups is the ammo and not my eyes getting old?
__________________
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
All data is flawed, some just less so.
ballardw is offline  
Old October 19, 2023, 12:02 AM   #8
rc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 1,718
Um, yeh, let's go with that! I'm not as good at shooting as I was 20 years go either offhand, but judging from reliability and from the bench through a rifle with a scope, the ammo I've used in the last 10 years is not as good as the older ammo that would cycle and group.
rc is offline  
Old October 19, 2023, 06:08 AM   #9
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,538
So companies that arguably are of vital security interest to the US are now foreign owned? I read down the page that they project decreased sales due to clearing excess inventory for the upcoming year. I haven't noticed excess inventory of large rifle primers in the last 5 years.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old October 19, 2023, 06:22 AM   #10
LeverGunFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 402
The excess inventory is on what they call outdoor products - camping gear, golf, fishing, etc. It's an odd arrangement, the ammunition business was the money maker for Vista and propped up the the outdoor products business. Now the outdoor products have to stand on their own, and they are predicting lower sales.
__________________
Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition
LeverGunFan is offline  
Old October 19, 2023, 10:14 AM   #11
ballardw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 1,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeverGunFan View Post
The excess inventory is on what they call outdoor products - camping gear, golf, fishing, etc. It's an odd arrangement, the ammunition business was the money maker for Vista and propped up the the outdoor products business. Now the outdoor products have to stand on their own, and they are predicting lower sales.
Sounds familiar. One of our LGS for a long time was mostly hunting/fishing then expanded to include a lot of "outdoors clothing". Went bankrupt in about 5 years.
__________________
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
All data is flawed, some just less so.
ballardw is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 12:05 PM   #12
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,489
Quote:
So companies that arguably are of vital security interest to the US are now foreign owned?
Companies that arguably are of vital security interest to the US have been foreign owned for about as long as there have been companies.

Some Military contracts require that the items be manufactured in the US but ownership of the company can be based anywhere in the world.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 01:01 PM   #13
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
Czechoslovak Group buys U.S. ammunition manufacturers Remington, Federal, CCI, Hevi-Shot and Speer

Should be interesting. Often when a foreign company buys out a US company they move production overseas to make it cheaper somewhere else. The product then disappears not long after and a different but similar product replaces it. Often lower quality.


https://www.westernjournal.com/forei...hers-sold-off/
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 01:54 PM   #14
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,256
I just saw that article and came here to post. Same article.

For some additional concern our President has ordered "No more civilian sales " from Lake City. I recently read that someplace but I don't have a source

I'll try to find one and update.

OK,this will get you an article . There is some waffling and denial. I'd call the situation "Indefinite"

https://americanmilitarynews.com/202...-to-americans/

Last edited by HiBC; October 20, 2023 at 02:03 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 02:10 PM   #15
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,256
More to be concerned about

I can't confirm for sure, but the White House may have ordered Lake City to cut civilian sales of that evil 5.56 AR-15 ammo.

This will get you one article

https://americanmilitarynews.com/202...-to-americans/
HiBC is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 02:59 PM   #16
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,538
Looks like he's going after the green tip penetrator cartridge.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old October 20, 2023, 04:57 PM   #17
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
For some additional concern our President has ordered "No more civilian sales " from Lake City. I recently read that someplace but I don't have a source
There is no official source for this story. It is a bunch of circular reporting from gun blogs.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old October 21, 2023, 05:22 PM   #18
PolarFBear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2015
Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State"
Posts: 476
It may be just "rumors" concerning Vista Outdoors but those are already affecting ammunition sales. Local gun show today in rural NE TN: It is never a bustling venue. Gun sales were "slim", but ammunition was moving out the door at a BRISK pace and in larger than normal quantities. Heavy on imported 223 and 7.62X39. And amazingly, I found two pounds of Dupont Black Powder.
PolarFBear is offline  
Old October 21, 2023, 07:18 PM   #19
LeverGunFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 402
A sales letter I receive from an ammunition seller reported a marked increase in sales on October 7th when hostilities broke out in the middle east. Any fallout from the Vista sale is icing on the cake.
__________________
Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition
LeverGunFan is offline  
Old October 22, 2023, 12:40 PM   #20
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,696
I saw a blurb somewhere on the world wide web that Palmetto State Armory is gearing up to manufacture their own line of ammo. If memory serves me they plan on making steel cased 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 for starters. Maybe this will help the AK crowd?
Mike38 is offline  
Old October 22, 2023, 02:33 PM   #21
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
I saw a blurb somewhere on the world wide web that Palmetto State Armory is gearing up to manufacture their own line of ammo. If memory serves me they plan on making steel cased 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 for starters. Maybe this will help the AK crowd?
As an economy gun company they aren't terrible. So maybe they won't be terrible at that either. The plan was to have it up and running by the end of the year so not sure what is going on there. Since they are buying old Eastern European tooling I am managing my expectations.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old October 22, 2023, 02:58 PM   #22
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,332
I would have no interest in steel-cased or bi-metallic bullet 5.56x45, thank you. I also don't shoot steel-cased .45 ACP in my 1911.

(Yes, I know XM855 has a steel penetrator tip. That's not what I mean by bi-metallic.)
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is online now  
Old October 22, 2023, 04:58 PM   #23
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,620
Quote:
I would have no interest in steel-cased or bi-metallic bullet 5.56x45, thank you. I also don't shoot steel-cased .45 ACP in my 1911.

(Yes, I know XM855 has a steel penetrator tip. That's not what I mean by bi-metallic.)
I also have about zero interest in this in my weapons as well, other than to perhaps obtain an inexpensive (and modestly sized) "oh crap there's no ammo anywhere" stash of practice fodder for very rough times. I still have some Brown Bear ammo in an ammo can I bought about 15 years ago just for that purpose. Now that my daughter is an adult, and she likes to go to the range and burn through $100 worth of ammo in an hour on my dime, I may just turn it over to her and tell her she has to supply ammo if I pay her range fee.

But I digress. The guys who shoot AKs have no qualms about shooting steel cases and bi-metal jackets. In fact, I had a Saiga that shot BETTER groups with crap Russian ammo than it would with good brass ammo. Now I did start reloading for it and that changed, but with factory ammo that was a legit thing.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old October 22, 2023, 07:30 PM   #24
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
The point is not so much what YOU would shoot but that the overall supply is increased. When you decrease supply people seek substitutes, then the ones who would shoot steel case will shoot whatever you shoot, decreasing the availability of what you do shoot.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old November 5, 2023, 11:00 AM   #25
Oldrifle
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2022
Posts: 6
Must be fascinating. Companies that the US may consider to be vitally important from a security standpoint are now held by foreigners.
Oldrifle is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07973 seconds with 8 queries